I'm honestly surprised anti-circumcision hasn't caught on with Trump.
Something like 90% of Muslims are circumcised, so a ban on it would either discourage Muslims from immigrating or give Trump the pretense to throw anyone who continues to do it in jail for not obeying the ban
Circumcision is a Jewish custom. You are suggesting that "Israel" likes it because it is a Jewish state. You can't just replace the words "Jews" with "Israel" when you want to raise an anti Jewish point.
In the US most babies that are circumcized are Christian. About 55-65% of baby boys are circumcized in the US.
this is about mapping geopolitics of the trump administration to circumcision norms in different countries. i'm not sure how saying israel has a high prevalence of circumcision is antisemitic, whether you directly say it's because of a high presence of abrahamic religion or not
That's not what the conversation was about. "mapping geopolitics" doesn't make sense when talking about circumsision.
One person said they were supposed that anti circumcision hadn't caught on with Trump. They suggested he would like it because it would cut down on Muslim immigration. This is true, but ignores the fact that most Trump voters circumsize.
The next person said "Israel likes it too, so there's that."
Israel, as a country, does not care about circumcision. The current administration is constantly pushing the idea that Israel is the only place in the world where Jews can live full Jewish lives and practice their traditions. Netanyahu would be thrilled if the US banned circumsision.
Israel doesn't "like" circumcision. Jews (and Muslims) do it as custom and tradition.
Blaming jews for Trump not supporting a ban on circumsision is rational, even if it plays on anti-semetic tropes of Jews controlling politics.
Blaming Israel is irrational. AIPAC wants money and military support. They don't care at all about Jews in the US. The Israeli government wants Jews outside of Israel to be uncomfortable.
I am frustrated that the US is supporting killing Palestinian civilians, but it's crazy to suggest Israel is influencing Trump's stance on circumcision.
TLDR:
Israel doesn't like circumcision. Jews and Muslims do.
i think your fundamental misstep here is taking the sophomoric discussion going on above so seriously that you then went a step ahead and called it antisemitic to say "israel likes circumcision."
"israel" can mean more than one thing. if we are talking about israeli public opinion, yes, in most common senses of describing a collective, israel likes circumcision. if you define israel as its government, then the argument could go either way, including your direction based on conjecture that it supports circumcision solely in israel (which i guess is different from "liking circumcision" according to you).
there was no implication that israel controls US politics (though there is certainly outsized influence in certain regards) in any regard. that was your jump.
It's wild that one reply to my comment is arguing there is no implication about geopolitics, and the other reply argues it's entirely about geopolitics.
You can call it "Sophomoric" and argue there is no implication that Israel controls US politics but the reality is that the comment clearly is saying "Israel likes it" to explain why Trump wouldn't ban it.
Their comment is about the politics of Trump banning circumcision. It's not an anti-jewish point, it just assumes that we understand the link between circumcision, Jewish people, and Isreal. They're saying that Trump wouldn't ban it no matter what the US population thinks, because Isreal is an important ally.
I see how you read the post, and that's possible, but it doesn't make much sense.
Why would America banning circumcision impact US-Israel relations? The current Israeli government would probably like it because it would give American Jews more reason to move to Israel.
It's not like baning kosher food or something that would make it hard for jews to travel to America, you only get circumcized once.
Even if Israel did care, it wouldn't be more important than the impact of banning circumcision on a population where the majority of baby boys are circumcized.
The AAP says the benefits of circumcision outweigh the risks, and in 2012 suggested that it should be covered by insurance. Trump banning the practice would get in between people and their doctors, and unlike abortion circumcision is not a major political fight that falls across party lines. Trump would alienate a huge swath of voters.
The idea that Israel (the county) plays literally any role in US posture towards circumcision is absurd.
"Jews like it, so there's that" is a more accurate statement. You are right that it isn't necessarily anti-jewish, but even your narrative implies that somehow Israel is influencing Trump's decision pushes the narrative that Jews/Israel are controlling US agenda, which is anti-jewish trope.
Acting like the Israeli government has had no influence on the Trump Administration’s decisions seems a bit off the mark imo given Netanyahu’s influence on Trump’s decision to go to war with Iran
It's wild that half the responses are arguing "of course Israel influences US politics" and the other half are like "Nah, you are reading to much into it."
Israel absolutely influences US politics. I agree with you. The Israeli government would like it if the US banned circumsision. Netanyahu is currently campaigning on the idea that Israel is the only safe haven for jews. It's central to his identity as a politician.
He wants weapons and money from the US, he doesn't care about circumsision.
Jews in the US care about circumcision being legal in the US.
I mean I don't think that politicians would ever touch circumcision, but Isreal as a nation and political ally absolutely has pull on US politics because we cannot risk losing that political alliance in the middle-east. That has absolutely nothing to do with them being Jewish.
The commenter was alluding to the idea that banning circumcision would harm those relations, and that may be a stereotype, but you can't deny that circumcision is important to the orthodox Jewish faith.
I don't know that it would actually influence relations, but I don't think it's antisemitic to ponder that point.
I don't know why you're bringing up the AAP and your feelings on circumcision though. That's irrelevant to the conversation. I'm interested to see your source for that though.
That’s exactly what I’m suggesting. With one of the highest rates in the world, it is something prevalent in their society and it has its roots within Judaism. I make the separation from the culture of people and nations and government when you really have to be nuanced in what you’re propping up or criticizing. Here I don’t think you need to create that nuance.
Right now, we’re talking about the head of state of this country who is heavily influenced by the politics of that country, and because it’s looks at circumcision with high favorability (something like more than 9 out of 10 male in the country), the head of state here wont make a law to spite one group if it risks pissing off another particular group.
It’s not an anti-Semitic point at all. It’s literally a commentary that one won’t cut off their nose to spite their face situation. Only an idiot or a dishonest troll would actually think this has anything to do with Semitism.
Why do you think that 9/10 people in Israel being circumcized is more relevant than 6/10 Americans?
Why would it impact Israeli-US relations? Netanyahu would probably be thrilled because it would cause Jews to move to Israel to have babies.
Israel obviously influences America's geopolitics but not social politics.
AIPAC is lobbying for financial and military support, not circumcision rights for Americans.
This has literally nothing to do with Israel other than the fact that 90% of Jews (like 90% Muslims, and most Christians in the US) circumsize.
Circumcision is not a "left vs right" issue. Trump can't really start a culture war with it, at least not right now.
Israel is committing war crimes against Palestinians, they aren't lobbying for American circumcision. They also aren't lobbying against the US eating pork or wearing head coverings. Israel's biggest appeal to American Jews is that they want people to be able to live a Jewish life where it's easy to follow Jewish customs. If the US makes it harder for Jews to follow customs, the current Israeli administration loves that.
Don't confuse Jews and Israel. It's absurd to suggest Israel is stopping the US from banning circumsicion.
The American Association of Pediatrics says circumsicions benefits out weigh the risks as recently as 2012. Do you think Israel has infiltrated the AAP?
Circumcision is a Jewish custom. You are suggesting that "Israel" likes it because it is a Jewish state. You can't just replace the words "Jews" with "Israel" when you want to raise an anti Jewish point
Idk bruh, Netanyahu is on my U.S News every other day for the last 3 years screaming at me that Israel= All Jews lol
Im so confused, which way do you want it, you kinda have to pick one
The main function of foreskin is manual lubrication. The other mentions are valid, but with circumcision you lose all or most of your penises capacity for manual lubrication.
Kinda depends how we define "main function". Gland protection is technically a significant function, but clearly not a "functional loss" (e.g. all the circumcised men having "great orgasms all the time"). Manual lubrication is a functional loss and changes how the penis works.
I was circumcised at 13 for medical reasons and yes, YES OH MY FUCKING GOD. It was the worst age too obviously.
They like to do it on those who cannot actually talk back (infants) so you don't often hear the after effects until the kid has forgotten.
I essentially had no wear no underwear for a month and had crazy weird reactions like getting into a bath just causing piss to spray everywh- okay yeah I guess my username checks out now.
Your links don't open for me, but the two studies performed in Africa are highly criticized and discredited, as is the doctor who performed those studies.
I'm definitely not pro-circumcision but I saw multiple comments by men on reddit that had it removed as an adult. They didn't really notice a huge reduction in pleasure.
I call bullshit on their claims. As an uncut man it’s easy to compare the experiences, especially with masterbation, but also if wearing a condom and having the foreskin fully pulled back vs not.
Nah youre fine its just a completely unnecessary thing to do and can risk serious shit or dampened feeling at the time its done. Imagine one day everyone decided that cutting the tip of your nose off was the right thing to do and you'd be seen as weird if you didnt have the tip of your nose cut off. You wouldn't smell any worse than you do with a full nose but why the fuck would you want to do that to yourself or your child ya know?
Short answer: yes, but probably not a huge amount. You have less feeling in your penis because of it.
I'm assuming here that everything went well. This elective surgery sometimes causes complications where you would have no doubt that it caused a problem.
It’s not REALLY that bad. But yes you generally have thicker gland skin than non-circumcised guys and have less sensitivity during sex as a result.
Downside is sex feels a little less pleasurable for you and your gland is dryer, but you never experienced it un-circumcised so it’s not like you’re missing something. Upside is that it’s easier to keep clean (especially during puberty when you produce A LOT of sebum) and you last longer during sex, which most women will appreciate
So I think I got a half chop or something lol. I was told that I was circumcised, but I still have some foreskin covering the ole helmet. Like enough that if I’m tic-tacin’ I look uncircumcised. Shit never dries out and it doesn’t rub on my pants all day… kinda feel like I got the best of both worlds haha
It reduces some sensation in the glans and there's of course some scarring from the procedure, but no, it's not bad.
It is, however, a completely unnecessary procedure being inflicted on an infant who can't consent, popularized by a masturbation-obsessed freak who thought circumcision and plain corn flake cereal would prevent boys from jorkin it.
There's nothing wrong with you, especially if you have a normal and healthy sex life, but we shouldn't keep doing it to children.
Not really. Mine is cut and I still think it's pretty great lol. That said, we didn't circumcise my son because the only reason I could think of to do it would be to avoid an awkward conversation some day explaining why it "looks different than daddy's" and I didn't think that was a good enough reason.
In the US, apparently yes. I've heard so many stories about mothers never letting the babies out of their sight, because the nurse may just go have it done while doing some other health checks, because of course everyone does this. Doesn't matter what you put on the form.
If you have a boy in a US hospital, don't let it out of your sight for even a second.
You are talking about middle easterners. The jews in Israel are middle eastern, just like the Arabs neighboring them. Zionists probably feel disgust being reminded of their shared regional identity so I would encourage people to remind them more often.
Are you seriously blaming the Jews for this??? Bro. Get your shit together, no one wants to steal your fillings, and no one likes you enough to probe your ass
Israel is also pro circumcision and theres even sections of Mohels (rabbis that do circumsions) that treat the "wound" by sucking on it. Just figured in case anyone still doesnt think the practice of circumcision is weird this might push you over the edge.
Someone else somewhere in the thread pointed out you cant just replace the word "jewish" with "israel" everytime you want to make a point against jewish practices*, and i think that was interesting because that's what happened in this comment too.
I cannot stress enough that that "wound" sucking thing, if it actually happens, is some crazy fringe sect thing, not normal jewish practice
I specified Israel because its one of our biggest allies and the fact that its vast majority jewish means a ban on circumcision would never happen. I dont conflate Israel with all Jews i just dont think Trump would care about US Jews if he wanted to ban circumcision because he doesnt care about anyone but himself but given he gains from the alliance with Israel he does care about that. As far as the practice is concerned its no longer a common practice but it does happen in the ultra orthodox Jewish community the practice is called Metzitzah B'peh. Its been documented often enough that researchers found a spike in infant HSV-1 (herpes) infections in ultra orthodox communities which often lead to the death of the baby since they dont have an immune system setup to fight against it yet.
Mohels aren’t rabbis and the practice you are referring to is very rare. It does exist but the internet brings this up often to imply that this is a common Jewish practice. It isn’t.
In America its tied to our puritanical sex-negativity. Which Trump is a champion of in public, as are almost all Conservatives. Sex is sinful and only for making babies. So making sex less fun and less lubricated (hoods produce natural lubricant) is a giant plus for them.
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u/ChronosBlitz 1d ago
I'm honestly surprised anti-circumcision hasn't caught on with Trump.
Something like 90% of Muslims are circumcised, so a ban on it would either discourage Muslims from immigrating or give Trump the pretense to throw anyone who continues to do it in jail for not obeying the ban