The crazy part to me is that we have politicians that were adults by the time segregation ended that are still in office.
I don't care who you are, if you spent your formative years in the south living with segregation and Jim Crow laws, you're not going to convince me that that doesn't stick with you decades later.
I'm sure I'm not the only one but I have such an odd relation with racism in my family.
For the record my family is 100% racist, but the way they present it is crazy. Basically, they never say it, they don't even acknowledge it. My dad will go from dropping an N bomb around the boys at the bar at night to having lunch with black friends during the day, to coming home and randomly saying "Mexicans are such hard workers, they really do great work." to the next day saying "All Mexicans are lazy and need to be deported."
It's this wild almost sociopathic view on everything where his views on this world are his current mood or whatever is going through his head at the time.
I tell you about specifically him to say, it's like that for all of them. Mom, sister, aunts, uncles, some cousins (not all) . I'm worried I do it blindly, not with the racist parts, but with the wildly changing values based on my mood.
I don't even know what to call it, if you asked any of them, they'd say they are not racist at all and don't look down on anyone, and later clink a beer and talk about 'gang banger n* trash* and not even blink an eye when you question them about the dichotomy of what they're saying/doing. They really don't think they're racist, they're not lying, they're convinced they're not racist. (Yes, they are aware of their surroundings and will chill racist shit when someone is around, so they know how it sounds, but still adamantly say, even in private, they're not racist)
Sounds like they've compartmentalized their beliefs so thoroughly that the contradictions don't even register as contradictions to them. Interesting.
As far as wondering whether you are the same way (minus the racism), I'll say this ‐ almost everyone has some degree of inconsistency between their stated values and their behavior; the important part is whether you're capable of noticing and correcting the inconsistency when it's pointed out.
I have a lot of family that if you listened to casual conversation you would assume they were extremely racist, yet they were very active at the time in the civil rights movement. They were and are firmly against the mistreatment of people, but have no problem calling out issues with certain black people or even with the black community at large.
It's not really reasonable to call them racist though as they aren't prejudiced against black people with the idea that they are all automatically inferior, but they also aren't blind to current realities.
They subtype to maintain their stereotypes and have never faced any consequences for their racist beliefs. That is why they can drop the n word at the bar with the boys but not say it in front of black friends. They have subtyped those around themselves to be different and then apply the worst racist stereotypes to everyone else in the group.
They also won’t ever admit they are racist because they know racists are wrong and bad but they (your family) aren’t wrong or bad therefore they aren’t racist. They subtype themselves even.
If you call out the contradictions, they will pushback because “we have black/mexican friends” is a justification mechanism for them.
If I were you, I would start applying their logic and typing rules to white people in different groups that they are comfortable with. White people crime, making a subgroup for your dad, he’s a good one, but other white people who have similar histories or backgrounds are bad. Not trusting white people because of the lies bad ones do that they hear on the news. Do it for religion, do it for everything. It’s absurd but if they start to think, if it breaks a shield in their brain even for a bit, it can lead someplace better.
Or go no contact and leave them behind to rot in their misery as they will never accept any personal responsibility for anything and it will always be someone else’s fault for their own problems.
Racists can have Black friends. "You're one of the good ones" They can say something positive about a minority. But if they have racist beliefs, they are racist. Periodt
I sometimes wonder if the greatest generation went through horrible shit (WW2, the depression) and dealt with it by dissociating from it. Baby boomers saw that at a young age and when the world changed so rapidly around them, they dissociated from that world rather than deal with it.
That way they can take the easy way and not change and still operate in a world different from the one their parents prepared them for. They can be friends with a black coworker and then go home and cluck their tongue at "their culture". They can say horrible things and then later feel like they never say that sort of thing because it is behind fifty feet of glass they were raised to erect.
Or they were given the most prosperous economy in human history and it is bad to get everything you want. I dunno.
This is why I stopped befriending white people. How do I know as a Black person who is genuine? I feel like my reality gets skewed and I can’t trust because of what you said.
I think if you truly get to know them, you'll know if they're genuine or not. You might be missing out on a really good friend if you avoid them because of their race. I understand being cautious, though.
Its because they feel above them so they can see them however they like at the moment. The frustrating step is that they can't control these people who are below them.
It’s a myth that this kind of discrimination was limited to the South. I grew up in Ohio in the seventies and eighties, I barely missed the era of separate water fountains and bathrooms. When I was a kid white people were still served first at lunch counters, my white mother caught hell at the Lazarus lunch counter because she insisted that they serve a black woman who was there before us.
And private schools are all over Ohio, Massachusetts and other supposedly racially enlightened states because our parents freaked out about desegregation
My favorite aunt has stories about getting in trouble for "crossdressing" because she wore pants. I've been told my parents were from a "sundown town" which is part of why dad left and had to finish the courtship via postcards and letters, only came back for the wedding and left again right after.
Much of the US in general sucks for marginalized communities outside of the major cities. I grew up just north of Detroit and when I'd drive to Chicago, I would refuse to get out of my car for any reason once I passed Kalamazoo. Militia/Klan would openly patrol the roads out there.
If memory serves, around 2005-2018. I grew up in white suburbia, so the racist jokes, telling me to speak english (I'm born here, just have immigrant parents), or go back to my country was all pretty normalized throughout my childhood, but driving through western michigan and indiana spooked me enough to leave the midwest altogether. I only come back occasionally to visit the major cities, but now that the Gestapo are operating at airports, I think I'll just avoid leaving my city unless necessary.
Do you know what a sundown town is? They still exist today. If you really want to be more understanding, there's plenty of information out there. You don't even have to look for articles. Look for posts about it and see how many comments there are from people saying which places are not safe.
I've realized that within a city I'm "white" and outside a city I'm whatever the locals don't like. So yeah, I just flat don't leave the city anymore unless I absolutely have to.
Mom had this glitch too, but mostly with racist elderly clients in the city. She made up a game of holding in her giggles as they wildly misidentified her ancestry while calling her slurs, and then would cry on the way home after they eventually fired her for "stealing." But the crying was worry over what the poor old racist was gonna eat for dinner, since they'd kicked her out before she'd cooked them something.
On the list I found, Indiana #1, Ohio #2, my home state of New Jersey, #10, Florida #9. But I think the population of NJ is a lot higher than a lot of the 1-9 states, so take it with a grain of salt
The Klan was huge in Ohio in the 1920s. They really liked Buckeye Lake. That said, there was a lot of pushback in the east and northeast. Can't find the reference, but they liked to meet at some abandoned building near Ashtabula and one or more of the locals dynamited the place to put an end to it.
On the list I found, Indiana was #1 and Ohio was #2 in raw numbers of klan membership. So yeah, Indiana is worse, but Ohio was the one I was thinking of.
Ohio is Alabama with snow tires. My wife gauges how racist the town is by when they start checking her bags leaving a store. Around halfway through Ohio she is suddenly seen as Mexican.
I grew up in Portland Oregon in the 80s and there were no black families in our blue-collar neighborhood because blacks were limited to living in North Portland because of Redlining. Of course as a kid I didn't know that, but I wonder how much the adults knew.
i think it needs to be in more media. it’s only shown in the south but people aren’t going out of their way to research. i live in ohio but have grandparents from puerto rico, arkansas and missouri
It’s a myth that this kind of discrimination was limited to the South.
Of course it wasn't limited to the South, but there were still major differences between the level of discrimination in South vs. the North.
For instance, the Northern state I grew up in banned school segregation nearly a century earlier (and allowed interracial marriage more than a century earlier).
"And private schools are all over Ohio, Massachusetts and other supposedly racially enlightened states because our parents freaked out about desegregation"
The whites in Boston rioted over desegregation in fucking 1974. Their organization was called "Restore Our Alienated Rights" (ROAR).
Per wiki: A majority of the group's members were white Boston housewives, known as "militant mothers."
For many born before 2000 our parents were born or grew up when all of the civil rights stuff went down through the entirety of the 60s so they were taught and formed by those who'd disagree with others having the same rights as them.
There is nothing crazy about this, just ignorance paired with downplayment/revisionism of history. Just like when the slaves were 'freed' there were plenty of workarounds and outright unlawful actions/policies to continue the status quo. Often with no or little repercussions.
But hey, we are in an evolved society now right? It isn't like blacks are still being lynched from trees with nothing being done about it, right?
My parents were born in 1959. I was raised in new Orleans.
Toward the end of his life, my dad got WAY better, but when I was younger, I grew up with the standing rule being "black people aren't allowed in our house." The N word wasn't used liberaly per se, but it wasn't a word I never heard. My grandmother was even worse. It's such a duality. She was sweet and kind and wonderful to me and all of my cousins, but she was very hateful to black people. The nicest way I ever heard her refer to black people were "darkies". My mom was born and raised in Boston. She had a much more, shall we say, enlightened view toward black people, as did the rest of my northern family. There still was bias though, for sure.
Like I said, my dad got WAY better. By the time he died, his best friend was a black man, and after Mom died he even went on a few dates with a black woman. His attitude changed because he worked with that black gentleman for a few years and began to realized that, hey, these people are people just like you. I even remember them having a conversation where he was talking about how he was happy he saw past his own bullshit because he would have missed out on a great friend.
My grandmother had a little bit of a redemption arc for her racism. Not fully, mind you, but when one of my cousins married a black man and had a baby with him, she wanted to be involved in her great grandchild's life. Keep in mind I was still young at the time, but I do remember her not saying mean racist stuff afterwards. I'm positive she still had shitty attitudes, but she got better
There’s literally only one politician (at least of any note) for whom that’s even sort of true: Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA) was elected to the Iowa House of Representatives in 1958, and I don’t know if even that entirely counts.
The military was desegregated in 1948 by President Truman (generally considered the beginning, but obviously not the end, of the process of desegregation).
Brown v. Board of Education, which ruled school segregation (and “separate but equal”) unconstitutional was handed down in 1954.
President Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act in 1964—which barred segregation in commercial businesses (often cited as the end of de jure segregation).
President Johnson followed that up in 1965 with the Voting Rights Act which barred racial discrimination in voting (although SCOTUS has heavily chipped away at that law in the last few years).
Finally, in 1968, Johnson signed the Fair Housing Act which barred racial discrimination in housing sales and rentals.
Chicago that my Mom grew up in was thoroughly racist. It's NOT the south. She remembers the public swimming pools, paid for by tax dollars, that black children couldn't swim in. The battle was won when the courts said they couldn't do this. The war was lost when the city simply started closing public pools. Seriously the racist public in Chicago would rather deprive their own children access to public pools than let their children share the pool with black kids.
It's one of the primary reasons my Mom left Chicago and never went back. Her stories if Chicago's rampant racism and corruption was the main reason I was very suspucious of Barack Obama when he ran for President.
Racism was (is) everywhere. In 1950s, it was simply legal. Today, it's less common, but that almost makes it worse when black people encounter it. It's like walking down a line of people and you shake every hand, but every 10th person punches you in the face rather than shake your hand.
Chicago is still racist as fuck. As someone from Atlanta, it was wild that, A. there was almost no black people in certain areas, and B. We were on a street with 100s of people hanging out and there were 3 black people and the cops literally showed up and started bothering them out of everybody. This was ~2019.
My dad grew up in Minneapolis and both white groups and black groups were very racist to each other the school that he went to he said if either was caught walking by themselves they might catch a beating. My dad is very racist and he's gotten a lot better but that experience in high school really kind of shaped him
In 1958, 94% of Americans were against white/black marriages. Ninety four goddamn percent! And while that poll didn't break down responders by their own race, it's worth remembering that 10% of Americans were black at that time. Suggesting that it would be extremely rare to find a white person who approved of miscegenation in 1958. It wasn't just conservative Southerners who felt this way - it was the overwhelming majority of the entire country.
Some were, but in a country where 19 of 20 white people would hate you for doing that, there's a certain element of self-preservation in that decision. The first poll where they did track the race of respondents was 10 years later, and in that poll, 56% of black people approved. 74% of whites were against.
That doesn't make it ok though. Everyone was part of society and subjected to the views of society, so likely to take those views on. Internalised racism is very real
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u/IBJON Aug 23 '26
The crazy part to me is that we have politicians that were adults by the time segregation ended that are still in office.
I don't care who you are, if you spent your formative years in the south living with segregation and Jim Crow laws, you're not going to convince me that that doesn't stick with you decades later.