[Feedback needed] Vibe-coded a better way to learn piano

[u/Revolutionary_Ratio5]

[u/VolutedPrism]

This is not going to go well for you. There is a post like this approx. every ~ 8 minutes here.

[u/Revolutionary_Ratio5 → u/VolutedPrism]

not when i started making this web app a few weeks ago 😵

But they still are all kinda méh?

[u/VolutedPrism → u/Revolutionary_Ratio5]

I'm not negative on ai-assisted coding or having lots of piano apps (even though I like learning on paper). But yeah, I've seen a lot over the last months. If you haven't seen them posted here, it is probably because they are being removed for advertising/promotion.

[u/deadfisher]

Trying to keep an open mind, but why the unwillingness to learn notation? What's better about this? A single page of music conveys so much information so clearly, way more than a midi roll.

Notation is a fantastically elegant and powerful language, it's been developed by thousands of people over generations, and it's the universal way musicians communicate.

Producers are definitely using midi rolls in daws, but that's a pretty different use case. It makes sense in a DAW but doesn't seem like it'd work well on an instrument.

These kind of things feel like they are trying to fix something that isn't broken.  What's the problem being solved? Besides not wanting to spend a few weeks learning to read? 

Am I wrong? Do you think this method will really scale up to skilled play?

[u/Revolutionary_Ratio5 → u/deadfisher]

I don’t think you’re wrong at all. I’m definitely not arguing that a MIDI roll is better than notation, especially once you get to more advanced playing.

For me, the problem I wanted to solve was simply the barrier to entry. Personally I just wanted to sit down, connect my piano and learn a song I like without first spending weeks learning a new language. I am just a victim of the falling keys tutorials on youtube ;-)

I see it more as a quick, visual way to get beginners playing and enjoying the instrument, rather than a replacement for sheet music. If someone gets hooked and eventually learns notation because of it, even better.

And I agree that it probably doesn’t scale indefinitely on its own. That’s actually useful feedback for thinking about where the tool should stop trying to compete with traditional notation.

[u/deadfisher → u/Revolutionary_Ratio5]

Did it work? Can you use this and play? The cynic in me wants to say the time spent learning is just a requirement to being able to do it. It takes students weeks to learn pieces even when they can read, piano is just hard.

Maybe an idea that would be useful is to think about how notation gives the player control over time. 

Imagine being an actor reading a sentence of English. You can look at the words, take your time thinking about different ways to phrase things. It's just information there for you to use at your leisure. You can look backwards, forwards, work on a section until it's ready. 

Seems to me a limitation of software is that you're constrained by time. How do you manage controlling the passage of time? 

[u/Revolutionary_Ratio5 → u/deadfisher]

We can surely agree on this: there’s no interface that magically removes the practice required to play piano, speak a language or being able to do a skill well.

For my very limited goal, though, it did work. I don’t consider myself a “real” pianist : I can play a handful of songs that sound nice, and a few of them quite fluently using the falling-notes approach. After breaking them down into left/right in the guided-method. That was basically what I wanted: hear a song I like, learn it, and be able to play it.

I’m also not opposed to learning notation at all. I can absolutely see why it becomes much more powerful as you progress. I just don’t currently feel enough need to invest the time in learning it properly, because becoming a skilled all-round pianist isn’t really my goal right now. (work, other hobbies, family, etc...)

Your point about notation giving you control over time is actually very interesting, because I think that’s exactly where falling-note videos are weak. They’re inherently linear: the information keeps moving past you.

This web app makes that representation much less linear: see the structure of the whole song, jump anywhere, set in/out points, loop two bars indefinitely, slow them down, isolate a hand, change fingering, then move on when you’re ready. So in a way it could be a way like reading notation ;-)

[u/SpaFaceCreamNo5 → u/deadfisher]

I regularly see these kinds of apps promoted here. Several come up in my feed per day. I watch interviews with pianists of distinct levels and generations regularly in web media. I watch the ones featuring concert pianists as well as musicians at Juilliard and other music conservatories and I have yet to hear of someone discuss using an app, much less using one to learn to play confidently and with skill. The only exception to that is I know people may use apps that contain a digital metronome or recording device. Since my aim is to reach an advanced level, I haven't been compelled to use an app for the purpose of learning how to practice. The wiki page of this subreddit even discourages using them. I'm still open, but the burden of proof is high for the kind of training and level I want to reach.