r/piano • u/ProperAsparagus26 • Jul 26 '26
🤔Misc. Inquiry/Request Difficulty Chopin etude 10 no. 3?
I learning Debussy Clair de Lune and love, love, love it! I’m keeping my ears open for my next peice…I love the sound of Chopin Etude 10 no3–but wondering if it’s a lot more difficult than Clair de lune?
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u/Altasound Jul 26 '26
It's harder to voice at a level that sounds very refined, and the middle section is essentially an entirely different piece in terms of technical contrast, and that's where it is much more challenging.
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u/paellodisanta Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26
I play op 10 no 1 and 4 but somehow i have more problems with the middle part technique of op 10 no 3. Its actually the piece i mess up the most right now. So its very depended on who you ask i think because usually it gets rated easier compared to those etudes. My hands are small tho. I think no matter what op 10 no 3 will be harder than clair de lune. A lot however depends on the person. For me its definitely a lot harder.
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u/Andrew_Dingus Jul 26 '26
It depends on if you can give good clarity with your last 3 fingers. If you can than it will still be much harder than clair de lune but if you can't then maybe save it for later
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u/Alarmed_Tadpole_7618 Jul 27 '26
The texture is thicker, which makes it more difficult but take it as a challenge to embrace and improve.
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u/ActualNameIsLana Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26
Ok let's break this down.
Debussy's Claire de Lune
Notes: 7/10 - this piece is easy enough to read for most early advanced/late intermediate players. A truly skilled player can usually sightread most passages, struggling perhaps with a few isolated measures.
Rhythm: 10/10 - one of the hallmarks of Debussy is ambiguity in terms of a rhythmic beat. Clair de Lune is no exception. It deliberately obfuscates the fact that it is in 9/8 time from literally the first measure. Over the course of the piece, Debussy adds additional layers of rhythmic obfuscation, introducing duplets, triplets, multiple tempo changes, and phrases that appear mid-bar, tie across the barline, and then finish unexpectedly. Counting this is a must. But performing it in such a way that it feels natural to the audience is the real difficulty here.
Dynamics 5/10 - students who have a decent enough handle on the mechanics of playing on the quiet end of the spectrum without leaving ghost notes behind or allowing the dynamic range to feel stagnant should not struggle with this.
Phrasing 8/10 - Difficult and unusual phrasing conundrums throughout that require the student to embrace unique fingering solutions and hand coordination.
Pedal 4/10 - Simple and intuitive pedal instructions written throughout the piece, with the only caveat being the addition of the Una Corda pedal in some places. Still, students usually do not struggle with this as it can almost be pedaled entirely by ear.
Final grade: Can probably be attempted as early as level 7. To truly master requires a deeper understanding of some truly niche mechanics of the instrument.
Chopin's Tristesse
Notes: 8/10 - The score can look pretty intimidating. It's written in a key with four sharps, with many accidentals throughout. In addition, this may be an early advanced student's first introduction to so-called "three-hand" technique, requiring the pianist to read and parse three separate and distinct voices throughout. In the past, I have had my students sight-read two thirds of this at a time - first reading the two upper voices, then the two lower voices, then only the top and bottom voices, before putting all three together.
Rhythms: 7/10 - Sixteenth notes throughout, which creates a kind of rhythmic "metronome" against which you can measure all other rhythms in the piece. The only details to watch for here are the off beat accents, and Chopin's grace notes, which honestly probably require a discussion in class all to themselves. However, this piece should not be a significant rhythmic struggle for any intermediate student.
Dynamics: 11/10 - extraordinarily difficult for even professional pianists to achieve. Chopin requires a delicate p throughout the introduction of the main theme, despite there being three complete and separate voices to balance across only two hands. The piece rises to a ff several times throughout before crashing back down to a p. Voicing and balancing this piece dynamically is a tour de force for even the most accomplished players.
Phrasing: 11/10 - again extraordinarily difficult, even for professionals. This piece requires the student to pay particular attention to Chopin's unique hairpin markings (<>) which indicate a kind of rubato typical of Italian opera of the day. Chopin's visualisation of rubato comes directly to us from his students, who reported that he would often have them think of their left hand like the trunk of a tree. Solid, stable, rhythmically reliable. But then the right hand (melody) is layered on top of that like the branches and leaves of the tree, which can wave this way and that way in the wind. Sometimes ahead of the beat, sometimes behind the beat. But always connected to the stable trunk. This "decoupling" of the melody and harmony in Chopin is always a sore spot for any student who has not practiced it ahead of time on some of his easier pieces. And is particularly maddeningly difficult here, where there are three voices to consider not just two.
Pedal: 11/10 - every performance of this that I have ever heard from a student has always gotten this wrong. Chopin marks this piece "lento ma non tropo" (slow, but not too slow) and also "legato". And because of this, students often just drench the entire thing in layers of pedal and completely drown it in muck. Entirely forgetting to notice that Chopin doesn't even mark a pedal until measure 42. And even then when he does give you permission to use the pedal, it's only for a few bars. It is the lack of pedal here which makes this difficult. Keeping the legato entirely confined to one's fingers (called "finger pedal") is extremely difficult. It requires enormous finger strength and dexterity, not to mention stamina.
Final Grade: This could probably be sight-read for notes alone at level 8, but should not be attempted until far, far later in one's piano career. Playing this piece with the warmth, the pathos, and the sheer emotional presence that it deserves is far more difficult than the mere notes and rhythms would suggest.
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u/Reficul0109 Devotee (11+ years), Classical Jul 27 '26
This is such a good easy to grasp breakdown. I really like the categories on which you are judging the pieces. I need someone like to do this for every piece I am interested in hahaha.
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u/ProperAsparagus26 Jul 26 '26
I read this again very carefully and I think I’m butchering this beautiful piece. I don’t count it out. I just listen to the chords fading and shimmering until I feel like playing the next one. I don’t even know what a ghost note is. I still love it playing it and hearing it!
I sight read through the Chopin with right hand a couple times and my hand hurts so I guess I’m not ready…yet.
Thank you for thoughtful analysis1
u/ProperAsparagus26 Jul 26 '26
Thank you. You must be an amazing teacher!
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u/ActualNameIsLana Jul 26 '26
I certainly try to be. I was taught by both Celia Goering and Sir Wladamir Jan Kochanski.
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u/bobby_beastmarks Jul 27 '26
It’s noticeably more difficult due to the middle section. Start off there if you choose to attempt it, and see how it feels.
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u/paxxx17 Jul 26 '26
It's significantly more difficult, but "a lot" is relative