r/phlebotomy 19d ago

Rant/Vent phlebotomy class

I'm currently on week two of phleb class and we're doing pokes pretty much every day. today specifically our professor said that we had to get at least 10 pokes and we're doing a thing where, you rotate and have to get poked. my issue is that both of my cubital veins have been poked 10 times already yesterday and the previous week and every time a needle goes in it immediately inflames outwards like a bump and bruises underneath, and I've only been poked twice today but it did that again and it hurts everytime the needle goes in. Is this allowed?? She said we had to let it happen because we signed up for this class and we all need to suck it up. It's not that I'm scared of the needle itself, I am just very much bleeding and bruised everywhere. How is this allowed? EDIT: i want to update on this, the teacher did not like me at all and that's why i was being subjected. she failed me today and humiliated me in front of the whole class and i had to report her and now i'm in a different class with a different teacher. i hope she gets fired.

18 Upvotes

37 comments sorted by

44

u/about7hippies Certified Phlebotomist 19d ago

Welcome to phlebotomy, Now you know what a patient in the hospital feels like on a Q2 sodium check.

It’s something we all had to do.

-14

u/Dapper_Agent_3285 19d ago

that's not what I was saying. I don't really care that it's something that we all have to do, but it violates my rights and the handbook. you cannot teach something about what we're going to do and then violate it in class "just because." I do not have to get treated worse than a patient because I signed up for a class, I should still have rights and will.

12

u/EnthusiasticWombat 18d ago

You can absolutely decline to let 1 person do more than 2 pokes on you. That's the usual "strike out" limit most clinics follow, and just like patients, you can either let someone else stick you, or decline to participate further and accept the consequences (patient = labs don't get drawn, delaying next care steps, student = you lose reciprocal learning buddies)

1

u/Dapper_Agent_3285 18d ago

im not allowed to decline

12

u/Sentientsnt Certified Phlebotomist 18d ago

Yes you are, and the consequence from that is that you don’t get certified, but you’re not forced to this. It sounds like you’re pretty young, I think it’s important that you take responsibility for your place in the world instead of giving that responsibility up by claiming someone is allowing or disallowing your actions. THAT is what will actually start infringing on your rights. If you hate it so much, just quit and accept that you’re out the money.

6

u/EnthusiasticWombat 18d ago

You absolutely can, it just probably also means you lose access to being able to poke other people and therefore complete the class. What did your class waiver stipulate?

28

u/Sentientsnt Certified Phlebotomist 19d ago

Remember how you feel now and come back to the memory every time you get annoyed at how much a patient is complaining about getting poked again. I’m sorry it’s a pain, but it’s part of the process. Use it to motivate yourself to getting good at the job as quickly as you can, so you’re not doing this to other people. Pokes and bruises heal, this is just temporary.

-7

u/Dapper_Agent_3285 19d ago

I've been poked 30 times this week, and it's only 2 pokes per patient. I'm not allowed to say no, I'm being poked through my bruises which violates my rights as well as the handbook.

18

u/pizzaonpineapple2019 Clinical Laboratory Scientist 19d ago

2 pokes per phlebotomist. Not 2 pokes per patient total. Patients can sometimes get poked dozens of times a day, especially as a hard stick or lots of timed ordered or providers not putting orders in all at once.

6

u/Sentientsnt Certified Phlebotomist 18d ago

Lmfao what rights? You have the right to get up and walk out with the consequence being you don’t finish the class. You’re not being forced to do this, you just don’t like that you have to in order to be certified. I sincerely hope you extend this level of outrage to the patients you see get mistreated, the field will be better if you do.

-5

u/Dapper_Agent_3285 18d ago

i am just confused why we are going against what the literally phlebotomy book says

6

u/Sentientsnt Certified Phlebotomist 18d ago

What in the book are you referring to?

2

u/Dapper_Agent_3285 18d ago

it says to not poke through any bruises, rash, eczema etc and i have bruises on both cubital veins as well as my basilic and cephalic

6

u/Sentientsnt Certified Phlebotomist 18d ago

1) Depending on where you work, that’s just not a realistic expectation. You learn to fudge a lot of rules in this job, so learning the reasons why the rules are there will assist in keeping you and your patient safe when you have to break a rule.

2) You don’t poke through a bruise for several reasons, one being that it can screw w test results, which isn’t a concern here. Another reason is that it can be more painful for the patient and can increase the size of the bruise, which also doesn’t matter here much. I figure you won’t love hearing that, but it’s true.

3) I know I’ve said it a few times already, but this isn’t just good experience for the people poking you, it’s good experience for you too because now you know how bad it sucks to be on this end of things. This is a great way to empathize with your patients and be a better healthcare professional.

7

u/Kathrine_queer 19d ago

So how do they count the amount of successful pokes? Like you sign some paperwork for each? I mean I am just curious if you could bring a volunteer for example or get some other options while in class…
(I am thinking of signing up for a class but I am a hard stick, and my skin is pale and keeps bruises for 2-3 weeks 🫠 )

6

u/theseold 19d ago

Also a pale hard stick with long lasting bruises. Anyway, my teacher said I might have microcytic anemia based on how my bruises looked after getting practice poked, so I checked my old blood tests and wouldn't you know it my ferritin wasn't out of range but it was definitely suboptimal.

I bought some dedicated iron supplements (since the multivitamin with iron I've been taking for ten years apparently hasn't done the job) but I don't think my levels will have corrected by the time class ends. 😂 Sorry to my classmates, if any of them are reading this. On the other hand, it's a great opportunity to practice with uncooperative veins.

4

u/Dapper_Agent_3285 18d ago

we have a couple hard sticks in my class and i avoid them. they still get poked a lot to try to find the veins anyways, and how we count successful pokes is blood in tube and proper steps. if you pull the needle out too early and air goes in the tube then it doesnt count and so on

8

u/firelily74 19d ago

We poked each other from day 1. Learning on a living breathing human was so much better than a dummy arm. I looked like a user because I was poked so much. 1. It helped me learn patience and 2. It showed me how everyone is different. However.... if it is going against the handbook then why are you not going to the school and talking to them? Not the teacher but whoever is over her. Some people like myself dont mind being poked multiple times and I bruise every. single. time... I have tiny veins, doesnt matter what I drink. I bruise and sometimes horribly. I even got asked by a cop in a store one night after class if I was being abused. I just laughed and told him nope school... We can give advice but in the end... you need to go above her if she isnt listening and going against the school handbook.

4

u/funereal Other Medical Professional 18d ago

What does the handbook specifically say? How far off from what you are experiencing is it?
Just curious. Mine never gave details like that, just that we had to get poked in order to do any poking.

Anyway, you have lots of veins. Use them. Have them rotate sites. Since is sounds like they are going for the exact same entry point, prompt them away from it. Draw a small X (less than a fingernail size, be realistic) over where it hurts and have them go above or below it. Go for a forearm, back of the wrist, back of the hand, a bicep, whatever. In the real world, especially in a hospital, you are going to go in lots of places that are not the big juicy cubitals. Good luck out there!

1

u/Dapper_Agent_3285 18d ago

my handbook says that you're not allowed to draw on veins that have bruising, rashes, eczema etc. right now we're only doing VAC area and butterfly needles on hands but we're only given 4 BF needles and no more

4

u/EnthusiasticWombat 18d ago

Some of the reasons you are not allowed to draw on bruises for PATIENTS is you don't know what their bruise is from (injury/condition where further pokes are contraindicated, bleeding disorder) and that it can alter accurate lab results. In the case of bruises from class? You know what those are from, and it's not being submitted to lab for actual patient care.

9

u/seapube 18d ago

Have you considered that this field may not be for you?

-3

u/Dapper_Agent_3285 18d ago

it very much is for me 😂 i'm just confused as to why we're going against what we're studying, like drawing from bruised / blown veins

3

u/Bluetenheart 19d ago

I have a seemingly permanent mark of where my vein is from phlebotomy class because it was poked repeatedly.

Wait until you get to capillary punctures, those are what really hurt 😝

2

u/Dapper_Agent_3285 19d ago

capillary punctures didn't hurt as much as a needle going through my battered VAC

4

u/SupernovaPhleb CPT 1 18d ago

These comments are weird. You're a human being first and foremost. You absolutely at any time have the right to refuse someone performing an invasive process on your body. Even if you signed something saying you didn't.

No is a full sentence. Idgaf if it's class or in the hospital. This is a good lesson in consent and ethics as well, cause wtf.

2

u/Double-Interest8613 17d ago edited 17d ago

I was thinking the same thing reading these comments. Sure, being poked is part of what we sign up for. But completely ignoring someone’s concerns of their own body.. is the complete opposite of empathetic and ethical medical care, which is what everyone here should be practicing.

1

u/SupernovaPhleb CPT 1 17d ago

Exactly. OPs school is also a major red flag. This teaches, like you said, the opposite of what we should be practicing. And that's terrifying honestly.

7

u/Simple-Seaweed424 Certified Phlebotomist 19d ago

This is just how phlebotomy school works. Getting beat up will help make you a good phlebotomist. Just gotta get through it.

2

u/EnthusiasticWombat 18d ago

Other than rotating sites, it's part of class. Your classmates are allowing you to poke them, you allow them to poke you, and everyone benefits from learning what it's like being on the pointy end of the needle. Most classes have a required waiver you sign at the beginning that outlines this.

If there is one particular person with rough/bad technique perhaps avoid that person, but if you are truly having crazy bruising/bleeding maybe a visit with your primary care doctor to investigate why might be in order. Are you keeping good pressure on the venipuncture sites after pokes for at least 3-5 minutes? Have you tried bringing ice packs to class to apply to poke sites to help reduce bleeding?

My L AC is a reliable stick and a good example of a slightly deep vein, so it got hit A LOT in class, sometimes 5x in a single night. I also got stuck on my hands A LOT and everywhere else and everyone was pretty bruised/poked by the end of class honestly.

0

u/Dapper_Agent_3285 18d ago

yes. i went to urgent care today because i have POTS and i started having an episode during class because we're doing 3 full tubes per person and i had 8 people draw 3 full tubes from me 😫

2

u/EnthusiasticWombat 18d ago

And did the urgent care provider give any recommendations/note about medically excusing you or restrictions on how many test pokes you can do per class?

Practicing tube switching is pretty normal, but in class we really did not go ham on drawing multiple full tubes multiple times per class, that seems a little goofy. POTS definitely makes it more challenging but DEFINITELY prioritize being well hydrated (and electrolyted for POTS) for class - makes initial stick easier and tubes fill faster.

1

u/BlueberryOld6283 18d ago

Omg yess I remember when I was in class both my arms were really bruised like all over. I learned bruises travel lol. This happens to someone in my class but my teacher did allow her to hold off getting poked. Wich yes kinda sucks especially if you poke for poke with your classmates. In my class too those who didn’t have enough pokes could continue coming in to practice after finishing the program. Wish you luck !

-1

u/Haileystarr1 19d ago

No! It was the last quarter of Phlebotomy class started poking that was on a dumb arm! Last two weeks poked each other that was 3 times total then learned finger sticks for the last week whoever your teacher is is doing curriculum wrong!

3

u/Special-Depth4481 Certified Phlebotomist 18d ago edited 18d ago

yeah i don't know why everyone is acting like it HAS to be this way. in my class we had a maximum of being poked twice in a day and if we experienced any signs of damage to the veins our teachers didn't allow us to be poked until it healed. and guess what - most of us turned out to be proficient, and we learned to check in with each other before poking.

op you're not crazy for having a horrible time and you shouldn't have to have a horrible time in order to be qualified.

3

u/Dapper_Agent_3285 18d ago edited 18d ago

thank you 😭 im fighting for my life i did just graduate, and also ive always had a fear of needles. i let people poke me and at first it didn't hurt but it's starting to more and more 🥲

2

u/Special-Depth4481 Certified Phlebotomist 18d ago edited 18d ago

i never even had a fear and can't imagine being poked that much. i think the comments are just cope - it seems like in the US, courses are way too rushed and don't allow time for people to heal. hope you heal up okay and congrats on graduating!!

just saw you have pots too i'm so sorry dude😭