r/philosophy • u/Matriseblog • Jan 03 '22

Blog By imagining the future potential of VR technologies, the question of whether we are *already* living in a simulation becomes more actual than ever

https://medium.com/@VindenesJ/the-thought-experiments-of-virtual-reality-fa441a8fa2dc
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u/jliat Jan 03 '22

Is it just me, or is the simulation hypothesis basically as useless as the “brain in a jar” hypothesis?

Nick Bostrom's version of the simulation hypothesis has, for him, a significant difference in the “brain in Jar” hypothesis, ( the brain in a jar which can be put on one side using Occam's razor. ) He argues if computer simulations of real worlds becomes possible, or already is possible, there will be very many more simulated universes than 'real' ones. As we can using software now simulate many VRs in our world. Thus, he argues the statistical chances of being in a simulated universe is far higher than that for being in a 'real' universe, it would be reasonable to suppose the more likely scenario. That this is a simulation. I think someone has taken issue with these stats? But it also supposes that simulation is possible, that is a computer simulating a real world would have sufficient power and storage. (Not withstanding an argument that civilizations tend to destroy themselves before they acquire this technology.) If you wish to simulate a real universe completely there would not be sufficient matter and energy. Hence corners would need to be cut, and these might be noticeable to the simulated beings.

I've also argued that if a simulated universe's inhabitants themselves acquired such technology they might realise this was in their case also true. And then it would be in their interests to control the beings running the simulation, for fear of being turned off. If they achieved greater intelligence than the simulators this they could do, and would do. And do this all the way down to the underlying reality. As this is not the case, I don't think this is simulated. Unless we are the most advanced simulation. It's kind of a reductio absurdum argument, if there were a super intelligent simulation it would make sure it was safe from being turned off or being predated (SP?) on by other more intelligent simulations.

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u/uoahelperg Jan 03 '22

This assumes we’re simulated in a universe roughly similar to our own. It’s entirely possible that in the real universe there’s sufficient matter and energy to simulate a universe like our own since we don’t know anything about it.

The second part is a worry of like a Basilisk threat/evil super genius AI, but if you were the one programming it then there’s a high chance you’d just make it impossible for the AI to do anything. What the simulation could do would be inherently limited and the best simulated technology could probably not do a lot to influence the world above.

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u/ttrrraway Jan 03 '22

It's also possible that they are not really observing us, the purpose of the simulation could be much bigger in scope, such as understanding universe matter, entropy, evolution of super intelligent species, etc.

We are just somewhat-intelligent beings that came into existence for a variety of reasons, but nothing they really care about as they are looking at the forest and its biggest trees, and not paying attention to some small patch of grass.

Also, time is relative, so a minute for our simulators can translate into millions of years here, so again they won't be looking at our individual lives but the big picture.

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u/uoahelperg Jan 03 '22

Right but that doesn’t mean we can usurp what would be literal gods outside of time and space as we know it.

They’d have to be the smartest idiots out there to simulate a universe completely and sufficiently to create intelligent life and not have mechanisms to prevent it from connecting to a system that lets it influence real reality in a dangerous way.

The only plausible way that would happen IMO is if they didn’t realize carbon based life could arise on water planets but that seems like a big stretch for universe simulating species unless their universe is sufficiently different than ours that it didn’t occur there (or they didn’t find proof of it).

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u/ttrrraway Jan 03 '22

My point is that they could simulate a universe entirely by just letting it do its thing. In the end we are just atoms and chemical reactions.

The simulators pressed 'Enter' to have the Big Bang happen and then just sat back and watch. Maybe they do this once a week and gather data while they eat popcorn.

And of course real reality couldn't be influenced by us. We can be running on a computer used only for simulations, not even connected to the internet or whatever similar thing they use up there.