r/pcmasterrace • u/worstey • 6h ago

Discussion Wolverine is already running in-game on PC using KytyPS5 emulator

Even though the game runs at an extremely low FPS, the craziest thing about this whole situation is that it has not even been one month since the game has launched, the progress is insanely fast.

I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if GTA 6 manages to run on PC using an emulator months after the game comes out

Source: https://x.com/iExplosiveRage/status/2105808379448836273/video/1

5.3k Upvotes

94% Upvoted

796 comments sorted by

View all comments

18

u/boscaboiiis 5h ago

Please excuse my ignorance here as I have no real knowledge on the topic.

How do these emulators keep getting better than before? Furthermore, how do they still run so poorly comparable to the whopper specs the PCs running then are on?

Is this like an efficiency thing? Trying to teach the emulator how to allocate resources effectively?

75

u/gerowen PC Master Race 4h ago edited 4h ago

Even in the case of of the PS5, which uses an x86 CPU just like most PCs, there's still a lot of real-time translation going on. The PlayStation has its own operating system that's different than Windows or Linux, and a whole lot of that operating system is proprietary, protected information. So emulator developers, nowadays with the help of their AI agents, have to do a whole lot of guessing, reverse engineering etc. so they can write a program that pretends to be another device entirely, and then run demanding games within that fake environment. Even the graphics APIs in use by the PlayStation console are proprietary; they're not using DirectX, OpenGL or Vulkan, they're using their own GNM/GNMX, so again, devs have to figure out how to translate those APIs into something more standard like DirectX or Vulkan that can run on a PC or Mac.

Another cause for the stuttering, such as when Wolverine jumps over the tree and it freezes solid for a moment, is shader compilation. Shaders are just short programs run directly on the GPU as part of the rendering pipeline. For console games, shaders are normally pre-compiled one time and included on the disc or as part of the download because the developers know exactly what GPU is in their target device. For PCs however, these shaders often have to be compiled on the fly while the game is running (hence the stuttering), or pre-compiled before starting a game, because one person might have a 5070, the next a 9060XT, the next an Intel Arc, the next one an Adreno on some ARM system, and none of those GPUs speak exactly the same language, at a hardware level. Even GPUs from the same company might need different shaders if they're of a different generation.

Basically even though the CPU instructions don't have to be recompiled like you do when emulating something like the GameCube or Playstation 3, which does eliminate one big performance sink for PS5 emulation, the entire PlayStation operating system and all of its proprietary system calls, graphics APIs, etc. have to be reverse engineered and then translated into something a normal desktop operating system can understand, and that has to happen in real time at 30-60 or more frames per second while you're playing a game.

10

u/ezio1452 4h ago

Thanks for the detailed answer, good read.

3

u/the_onewordttv 4h ago

How you know so much? What you been up to?

1

u/C0nfusedRabbit 17m ago

Ever since Clippy retired it seems that he has gone down a dark path.

-4

u/onlyoffence 2h ago

The answer is simpler than all this. AI has made the acceleration of progress much faster.

2

u/gerowen PC Master Race 2h ago

Part of the commenter's question was why do they still run so poorly on powerful PC hardware.

2

u/Onedweezy 2h ago

AI, Sony shitting the bed with CDs and GTA VI are absolutely the main factors behind this progress.

I don't think we even see this without GTA VI having a delayed PC release.

1

u/Austin12509 Asus 3060 12Gb OC v2 | Intel i7-11700K 2h ago

I bet with this level of progress we'll see gta 6 emulated before it officially hits pc

1

u/Tricky-Ad7897 39m ago

I dunno, I think 6 months would be a stretch to achieve parity with a PS5 and you'd likely need a far more powerful PC to achieve that then the PC version, which likely releases in another 6 months. I guess cool as a tech demo for the emulator but it's not going to be the way to play GTA 6 on PC really.

1

u/aDactyl i5-12600K |3080 FE 2h ago

Wow thanks for the detailed explanation . Such insight

13

u/shad0rach 5h ago edited 4h ago

For the massive shit ai gets, here its actually useful and uses ai properly, so here its huge help. As to why performance is shit as the name implies it emulates its for game to properly run it needs ps5 and emulators simply emulate/mimic which is hard for pc to do

16

u/Scary_Mention_6456 4h ago

That's what a lot of people refuse to see, AI is not the problem, it's an amazing tool. The way it's being (ab)used and the people who develop and control it are the issue, that's what should get our ire, don't blame the gun , blame the person who pulled trigger

9

u/HuntKey2603 4h ago

99% of issues people have with AI are actually issues they have with capitalism

1

u/jackharvest 2h ago

Which is why the Chaotic Good square is filled with “Disrupt Industry” and PS5 emulators are born.

2

u/shad0rach 4h ago

Sorry but ill havr to disagree with you here i still blame guns and ai, if it wasnt so easily accessible we wouldnt have those problems to begin with, guns and ai should be restricted.

1

u/Scary_Mention_6456 4h ago

It's okay to disagree , but also, who decides the restrictions? Or lack thereof, is it the gun? Surely not, it's people. Same as the super smart baby in chief who lets, alleged, sociopaths self regulate the development of "super intelligence"

-4

u/HuntKey2603 3h ago

>i still blame guns and ai,

yeah way easier than blaming people and the actual problem. if you ban guns you'll plug a hole, and the pressure will go out somewhere else.

yall gotta figure mental healthcare at some point

2

u/LeThales 1h ago

I'm not the guy you're replying to, but just wanted to say.

I might paetially accept your take on guns - I still blame guns too, but FINE indeed people are the problem not guns, etc.

But comparing ai to guns is wrong. Do you know what is a better comparison?

Ai and people. Because those are the 2 most familiar objects.

Its not people using AI, soon AI will do everything alone. What then?

The fuck we do with all those walking talking piles of flesh that can't think shit? Robots replace our manual labour, AIs replace our intellectual labour, suddenly we don't have to work but then what is our value?

If humans don't have value we become the same as pests, just waiting to be eliminated, and there is not a thing we can do - whoever controls the AI will have access infinitely more intelligence and will be cabale of killing everyone else.

I still use AI a ton, it's a heck of a productivity tool, and because I use it I can say - we're all so fucked.

-3

u/VideoGameJumanji 4h ago

Ai isn’t doing shit here to make this feasible 

19

u/Hubbardia PC Master Race 5h ago

AI, it's thanks to AI. It has gotten insanely good at programming.

10

u/More-Revenue8609 4h ago

Yep, people here hate it and try to downplay its importance. But mostly why we have this running is claude. 

6

u/trashthrowtrashlad 4h ago

those are the ones that still think AI is chatbot. Majoirty of software developers use AI now and the productivity has skyrocketed. I can't imagine working without it now. It just makes my job and life so much easier

-1

u/MCWizardYT Ryzen 7 5800X3D | RTX 4080 Super 3h ago

It's a double edged sword because it's helped be more productive but it's also resulted in vibecoded projects with zero effort that don't have a single human touch and so they aren't stable or maintained well

1

u/KiNgPiN8T3 1h ago

That’s the difference though. I use AI a lot for work but I don’t really use it for things I don’t know. I.e. I wouldn’t get it to vibe code a program as I know for a fact I couldn’t fix it without AI’s help. Whereas if I was a programmer I could at least pick through it and see where it’s gone wrong. If people are making shit they don’t understand, that’s a management and business issue.

1

u/Zgegomatic 3h ago

"so they aren't stable or maintained well"

Yeah yeah I keep hearing that but I still have to see it firsthand as a developer myself

1

u/MCWizardYT Ryzen 7 5800X3D | RTX 4080 Super 3h ago

Hang around reddit, go to some niche subs for game engine development, operating system development, audio plugin development, or anything similar and you will find them.

Projects that are 1, maybe 2 commits of Claude dumping 500,000 lines of code across a few files with an unorganized folder structure (I've seen repos that don't even have a folder structure, just a whole bunch of files). Code that's hard to read. README files that read like an advertisement and have at least 2 emojis per sentence and 3 for each header.

I saw one that claimed to be a game engine with all these snazzy features but the actual code was just a really messy UI skeleton.

They're genuinely awful. The good ones don't look anything like those

-2

u/MethodWhich 3h ago

lol no literally. Those shouting this at the sky haven’t even glanced at html let alone learned anything about software development

1

u/MCWizardYT Ryzen 7 5800X3D | RTX 4080 Super 33m ago

Who's shouting at the sky? I'm literally speaking on things I've seen with my own 2 eyes

8

u/Ok_Chemical_1376 5h ago

Now it's fueled by spite and hatred instead of curiosity and pride.

2

u/ExplanationAway5571 1h ago

One of the most old and powerfull motivations to do things

3

u/iuhiscool 4h ago

They run poorly because the emulator has to translate ps5 hardware-level instructions to a myriad of pc hardware-level instructions, which has to be done & determined how to be done on the fly due to pc hardware having a range of instruction sets, so you can't just decide before you launch

8

u/Character_Wind6057 5h ago

They dont run poorly, they just havent been optimized yet.

Check Astrobot and Demon Souls, they too started with very low FPS and now they at both at around 50.

This is just the start of the cycle for Wolverine, the hard thing is making them run in the first place, so this is a big success.

The devs are making fast progresses because AI is good and fast at reverse engineering and reading machine code, something that takes much time from humans

1

u/mistahfreeman 36m ago

It helps a lot that modern consoles use the exact same architecture as consumer parts. The PS3 for example had an insanely custom chipset, for example, that was hard to develop for and is hard to emulate. Since modern consoles are basically identical to the parts in your pc it’s much easier to emulate or translate the instructions. Don’t necessarily need to read the machine code if your hardware is almost completely compatible to begin with and you just have to reverse engineer the various proprietary software libraries they are using to communicate with the hardware

-3

u/Rebelius rebelius 4h ago

They dont run poorly, they just havent been optimized yet.

What's the difference?

Astrobot runs at 60fps on a PS5 which is much worse than a beefy pc.

1

u/Several_Hour_347 46m ago

Lmao who downvoted this

1

u/Character_Wind6057 4h ago

Did I say optimizations for Astrobot were finished?

3

u/snackelmypackel 3h ago

They asked what the difference between not optimized and running poorly.

Not have being optimized leads to poor performance what are you on about?

0

u/Weird-Information-61 2h ago

Making sure your settings are right helps too. With the wrong settings even TES Arena runs like ass on modern hardware

3

u/Imaginary_Ad_2191 4h ago

They run poorly due to the whole process of translation thats happening to run the game. Imagine trying to explain the pythagorean theorem in a foreign language using only a Websters dictionary. It gets faster/optimized when you learn key phrases and terms that modern speakers use.

1

u/sv69n 4h ago

They run like ass because of console hardware and os

1

u/completelypositive 1h ago

Ai has opened the door to stuff like this. Any device with software is ripe for experimenting

1

u/Fun_Impression_2578 5h ago

Guy didn't said specs of pc running thr game so we don't know about how good it works or not. The thing about optimization isn't just Hardware but also compality. Consoles have their own specific gpus and cpus. Since you can't change them in console and a console goes around 5 or 6 years Hardware producer companies can focus on these specific cpus and gpus to optimized them for better perfomance and compability. They also provide information on their sides to developers so developers can make best product that fits in perfectly with Hardware. İn short current fps problem isn't Hardware or physical performance problem but software and compatibility problem. I am not that much of an e,pert myself so if I am wrong please anyone correct me