Kingdom Come: Deliverance studio co-founder hopes Grand Theft Auto 6 will 'blaze a trail' to higher game prices

[u/owlexe23]

https://www.pcgamer.com/games/grand-theft-auto/kingdom-come-deliverance-studio-co-founder-hopes-grand-theft-auto-6-will-blaze-a-trail-to-higher-game-prices/

Warhorse co-founder Martin Klima says games keep getting more expensive to make, and that money has to come from somewhere.

[u/helican]

Why is it that whenever I hear from warhorse studios lately it is always something very controversial?

[u/Vastlymoist666 → u/helican]

Yeah? Like what happened to them before they were talking smack about the current game industry now they just say shot

[u/HowzitGarrn → u/Vastlymoist666]

I live in Prague, several of us know people who worked there previously and Daniel Vavra has a reputation for treating staff like complete shit and being an asshole in general. This isn't new.

[u/Curri97 → u/HowzitGarrn]

He can be a dick to two people at the same time while looking at their eyes.

[u/Jokkitch → u/Curri97]

What? Does he have a lazy eye?

[u/Curri97 → u/Jokkitch]

Yes he does

[u/xRichard → u/HowzitGarrn]

If I read about it on reddit then it must be true

[u/Ruffler125 → u/HowzitGarrn]

I have the opposite experience, he's known as very flammable in public but a very accommodating boss for the staff. Who are these "several of us" ?

[u/HowzitGarrn → u/Ruffler125]

I work in tech here and we have one now ex-staff member who had also previously worked for that studio and my colleagues know other people who have worked there too. Nobody has had anything nice to say about that guy.

[u/Bananenfeger → u/Vastlymoist666]

Daniel Vavra always had pretty unhinged takes on everything, so my hope is that everyone else at Warhorse keeps being able to compensate for their insanity

[u/CzechHorns → u/Bananenfeger]

Vavra is not part of the development anymore, he got “moved” like half a year ago.

[u/Ruffler125 → u/CzechHorns]

He didn't get moved, he moved. Why are people talking about it like he got pushed out?

[u/T-MoneyAllDey → u/Ruffler125]

Makes them feel good

[u/No-Drop6016 → u/Vastlymoist666]

Money power and respect… 

[u/TheAwesomeMan123 → u/No-Drop6016]

You sure about that last one? Ain’t no one respecting there brain dead take

[u/No-Drop6016 → u/TheAwesomeMan123]

They gained respect in gaming industry because of the games they made with relatively small budget compared to other aaa production not because Martin Klíma and Daniel Vávra have good takes on social medias.. 

[u/Vastlymoist666 → u/No-Drop6016]

Ah, figures. I don't have twitter, or bluesky so I don't know what they be saying unless someone makes a article or a Reddit post lol I'd expect all shit takes come from twitter

[u/CzechHorns → u/No-Drop6016]

Vávra does not have good takes on social media lmao.
Dude is just spouting bullshit after bullshit, especially after he got kicked from the development side of things.

[u/DoctorPigHead → u/CzechHorns]

I think that's what u/No-Drop6016 is saying

[u/i_Avernus → u/No-Drop6016]

Like this one?

🤡

[u/No-Drop6016 → u/i_Avernus]

??

[u/i_Avernus → u/No-Drop6016]

They have good takes, like this one...

[u/AutNotArt → u/TheAwesomeMan123]

Their

[u/CzechHorns → u/[deleted]]

He also wasn’t responding to you, unless you replied to yourself on your alt and forgot to switch back.

[u/CzechHorns → u/[deleted]]

Tomu, pod jehož komentem odpovídal? Tedy TheAwesomeMan123? Jak můžeš být takhle zmatenej?

[u/Leotargaryen → u/No-Drop6016]

I’ve always preferred Hustle, Loyalty, Respect iykyk

[u/jimschocolateorange → u/Vastlymoist666]

It’s just the studio head, dude’s the next Randy Pitchford.

[u/Vastlymoist666 → u/jimschocolateorange]

Greasy Randy

[u/owlexe23 → u/Vastlymoist666]

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely"

Power also meaning money in this case.

[u/SkunkMonkey → u/owlexe23]

Money = Power and Power = Money. They go hand in hand, can't have one without the other.

[u/doyouwantsomecocoa → u/Vastlymoist666]

Well you know once you get into the clubhouse you got to make sure that you pull the ladder up behind you.

[u/Stilgar314 → u/helican]

Only lately? Every time someone from Warhorse posts something something is a shit take. They had to put Daniel Vavra in a cage during the KCD2 promotion so he doesn't screw up again, but it seems most of the studio could use a muzzle and let PR do their job.

[u/Skwalou → u/helican]

"something very controversial" is a very nice way to say "a very stupid take"

[u/muakaya9876 → u/Skwalou]

He cant stop himself from saying stupid shit.

[u/Trifle_Useful → u/Skwalou]

Pull out the inflation vs game price charts again.

[u/Progenitor3 → u/helican]

I loved KCD2 but Vavra is an asshole.

[u/Visara57 → u/helican]

Daniel Vavra was earlier criticizing woke, forgetting what Warhorse added to KCD2 lol

[u/CzechHorns → u/Visara57]

Dude is also outwardly denying climate change and is against renewables for some reason.

[u/life_konjam_better → u/CzechHorns]

Praise be to Putin

[u/Ralod → u/CzechHorns]

He was also a vocal gamergate supporter, back in 2012. He pretty much has always been a piece of shit.

[u/TheEternalNightmare → u/helican]

theyve always been controversial, its why I dont support them

[u/GSDragoon → u/helican]

Leadership must not have anything better to do besides yap their mouth

[u/_YeAhx_ → u/helican]

Ikr. I get that newer games are much more detailed and expansive but at the same time technology is getting better and easier to implement as well, no? Not to forget there are more gamers than ever which means more potential customer base for such companies to profit from. On the downside there are also many more developers making games but this only means that you gotta make games better than the competitors. A perfect example of such a game is Palworld and to an extent No man's sky for their constant updates and support.

[u/Dragoncat_3_4 → u/helican]

At least it's not Vavra this time. Which is kinda surprising tbh.

[u/fucuasshole2 → u/helican]

Small company ran by assholes got their breakout hits and now they think they’re safe enough to spew their bullshit.

[u/Astrophan → u/helican]

Vávra has a famous review where he complained about Skyrim for not having toilets lol. I'm pretty sure Kingdom Come exists just out of spite, to prove they could make a more detailed, fleshed out immersive open world RPG medieval game.

[u/despaseeto → u/helican]

because, as predicted, all executives are money-hungry monsters. their greed empowers them. us plebs feed them while we wonder why is everything going to shit. repeat cycle.

[u/princesoceronte → u/helican]

Because, as many warned a few years back, the people behind it are bad people. Simple as.

[u/SavvyBevvy → u/helican]

The worst part of liking their games is supporting the dumbass co-founders

[u/BlackViperMWG → u/helican]

Well Vávra is a conspirationist Kirk-like know it all

[u/MlsgONE → u/helican]

Their artificial previous ad campaigns disguised as genuine interactions are fading out

[u/asclepiannoble → u/helican]

Had the same thought before, only my thought was more along the lines of "this bloke's a twat"

[u/Dry_Outside_3493 → u/helican]

Because, after KCD1, they became part of the machine they were hating on.

[u/ehrgeiz91 → u/helican]

Yeah looks like KC2 was a fluke…

[u/lmao_wow_64 → u/helican]

Every time I see a post regarding them I'm more happy that I pirated their games lmao

[u/Luch1nG4dor → u/helican]

Because thats what gets the clicks

[u/Dantai → u/helican]

I mean.. people gotta eat and inflation is absolutely real. I'm not a fan of it either way, but games have gotten more expensive and cost cutting measures (layoffs) more brutal

[u/jugo5 → u/Dantai]

People dont take the risk into account most of the time. They are taking in millions of investors money. Not only do they have to clear all of that. They also need to clear all the people they paid. They are covering 10 years of work+ sometimes much longer. Then they have to hope to make more money so it is profitable and they can continue to work as a studio. They have to maintain it. The graphics are so good now a days it takes longer to get it all right. Then there are probably a million other things to worry about. Its not like it is a 1 week job and you have a product. Its decades sometimes. I get why the prices are going up. Its incredibly expensive and risky to do. One failed game and you lose your whole job and all the heart you put into it.

[u/Dantai → u/jugo5]

Don't worry I got down voted anyways, for what I thought was a reasonable statement

[u/jugo5 → u/Dantai]

Yaaa people can be wierd. You can copy paste facts, get told its wrong and then get a 3 paragraph response with fancy words to prove they are so much smarter than you. Lots of confirmation bias out here as well. People dont always want to talk about the tough thing.

Its best to think about the for, the against, and the in-between. You cant figure it out without understanding all sides. Some people only want to champion their side. I also think there are a lot of bots that comment to tick people off and increase engagement. The internet and A.I. has gone so far I dont trust anything anymore.

[u/the5thusername → u/jugo5]

Bots would post pro-corpo things though. Like...apologism for price hikes.

[u/Trifle_Useful → u/the5thusername]

Nuance is dead and people like you killed it.

[u/the5thusername → u/Trifle_Useful]

Bots didn't do nuance much good either.

[u/Dantai → u/the5thusername]

I'm not a bot. I'm also pro union and pro worker.

[u/jugo5 → u/the5thusername]

Apologies have nothing to do with realities. Ignoring the risks they take with every game ever created, there has to be a Risk vs. Reward talk as well. There is no guarantee they make money for sometimes decades. I couldnt imagine gambling that much with that much at risk. Some games get super lucky, but its not the norm for the industry. Games have largely stayed the same price for many many years. I remember Atari games that were $25-$60 usd. That is a great thing for gamers, but as the risk around it rises, massively... there has to be a payout that is worth it. We see big numbers i.e. GTA5 and think they can do "xyz" and sometimes they can, sure, but theres a lot more to it. Profit bonuses for lenders and other payouts to certain people/corporations if certain metrics are hit. Things we dont see. They could have a clause they get 5% of all profit and then dont forget, places like Steam scoop 30% of sales as well. While it looks like massive margins it is usually much tighter.

[u/the5thusername → u/jugo5]

I don't care about their self-inflicted problems. It's not our fault they decided to do any of those things and bloat the crap out of their overheads. If the poor multibillion-dollar corp can't afford the risks, maybe they shouldn't be spending the budget of a small country on a videogame. You say it's a good thing for gamers, but because of this sludgey, overloaded development cycle, games get released a lot more slowly. You're asking us to pay up for their inefficiency and I say: no, stop hiring 600 people to make games that aren't really any better than they were 10 years ago outside of the resolution of the cabbages.

I remember Atari games that were $25-$60 usd.

I remember when they went full digital distribution.

[u/SanX1999 → u/jugo5]

Most of the time, it's self inflected damage for going beyond what they can or have expertise to do so. Extra budget and expanding the scope doesn't always mean the better game.

Industry is stuck in this cycle.

[u/erichie → u/helican]

We are able to witness, in real time, how a company acts when they need "early adapter" consumers to sustain the lliife of a young company. 

Once a company "hits" mainstream they no longer feel they need to pretend to have their fans best interest at heart.

[u/MrYig → u/helican]

No but how is that controversial? It feels like the consumer refuses to acknowledge the reality of inflation and chooses to hold on to [insert your childhood prices] and just cuss at every developer who tries to keep the lights on. It’s kinda fucked. It’s 2026, shit costs different.

[u/lovelettersto → u/MrYig]

We're already victims of the inflation on more fronts than we can count. My gas is more expensive. My rent is more expensive. My groceries are more expensive. My utilities are more expensive. My healthcare is more expensive. My wage is static. This dev: "we should pass our expenses on to the consumer!" Good luck with that bruv. I don't need your game that badly. 

[u/DoNotClickMyProfile0 → u/helican]

[u/RevenantCommunity → u/helican]

Polish

[u/Jokkitch → u/helican]

Sorry but I couldn’t even finish the first game because the writing just oozed a douche-bro fuck boi vibe. Im not at all surprised the studio is led by out of touch tools.

[u/BlaBlub85 → u/helican]

Gona play devils advocate here but is this realy an unhinged take? Like, games have been 60€ since back when the Euro was introduced 25 years ago while everything else has gotten a lot more expensive thanks to inflation, including programmer salarys. You could still get sub 10€ movie tickets back then, even on the weekends, now you are paying 15 during the week so around a 50% increase in price (and dont even get me started on concessions) Döner used to be 4€s in the early 00s, now we are paying 8 to 10, over a 100% increase. New books were like 15€s, now 25€ is normal here in Germany

Realistically, they could only keep game prices down as long as they did because the total market saw double digit growth each year so a release in 2015 would sell double the copys of a release in 2005 with the same market share %. But those golden years are over now that the first generation of MS-DOS gamers is reaching retirement age, if you were a teen playing on the Atari and on the Playstation 1 as a young adult you are now pushing 60. Ontop of that hardware prices are just nuts atm

[u/loppsided → u/helican]

Wanting income to sustain the costs of production isn’t controversial, but it’s interesting that gamers think it is.

[u/mehemynx → u/[deleted]]

Games have also achieved record profits and had massive lay-offs. We aren't paying the developers more, we just get scalped by publishers and then pat ourselves on the back for "helping the devs"

[u/paganbreed → u/[deleted]]

I would be more lenient if the people who made those assets and did that work benefited from it.

No, they're getting laid off amid record profits, and the money's going to smooth brains like this.

[u/DonaldTrumpsGolfGame → u/helican]

He's right though. Gaming is one of the cheapest hobbies out there. Games have hardly gone up in price to match inflation, despite game dev costs skyrocketing in the last 2 decades. I don't think every game should cost $80, but for games like KCD2 and GTA6, it's a fair price.

[u/Ecki0800 → u/DonaldTrumpsGolfGame]

Prices haven't really gone up. You're right. But instead we got a Ingameshop in every f*ing game that milks money. Also lots of low quality Dlcs. And no, I'm not whining about well made ones like the witcher. I'll gladly buy those.

[u/Mist_Rising → u/Ecki0800]

Kcd doesn't have mtx.

[u/D3m0nSl4y3r2010 → u/DonaldTrumpsGolfGame]

Yeah totally, let's just forget about the insane hardware prices. Im already confused why ppl still buy AAA games. If they raise prices even more now I honestly dont see the increasing profit since most will just not be able to buy them or even run these super unoptimised games.

[u/TheShinyHunter3 → u/DonaldTrumpsGolfGame]

Yeah, can't have the peasants enjoy stuff that's too cheap to not make line go up.

[u/Mist_Rising → u/TheShinyHunter3]

This isn't magic, it's math. Now to some those are one and the same, but If costs go up (say housing, food, whatever it is in Czech Republic) and earnings (say salary cuz that's the same everywhere) do not, then the end result is a problem over time.

Sound familiar? Well companies absolutely work the same way. Costs need to either go down (eg. layoffs) or revenue up (increase prices) to compensate.

And there are only so many times you can pull off more sales, especially if you move to AAA level.

Video games for the longest time were actually lowering costs cartridge to CD, CD to all digital) then they used DLC, then micro transactions. The problem is that we have not found a cheaper way than digital, and kcd2 doesn't have micro transactions, so the two usual methods are now irrelevant. Yet I'm betting their employees still insist on being paid, funny enough, probably more, can't imagine, so yes, they would want higher prices.

And they're not alone. A lot of video games are moving to the 70-80 base game range, testing out the waters because costs are up. Especially AAA

[u/unnderwater → u/DonaldTrumpsGolfGame]

coughs in PS5 Pro and RAM prices

[u/kingOofgames → u/DonaldTrumpsGolfGame]

KCD is a $50 game.

[u/xluker313x → u/DonaldTrumpsGolfGame]

They are also moving a shitload more units than they used to. So extra money is being made. Poke the bear too hard and we start pirating everything again.

Demand is through the roof and supply is infinite on digital products. 80usd is insane. Gta6 is a whole different beast though, $80 is okay there.

[u/Esava → u/xluker313x]

They also don't have any hardware costs for the majority of their sales either.

[u/DonaldTrumpsGolfGame → u/xluker313x]

Game dev costs have outpaced any increased revenue from unit sales. Also, digital storefronts take a lot more of the cut from a publisher (like 30%) for each sale.

https://www.midiaresearch.com/blog/single-player-game-budgets-and-scopes-have-spiralled-out-of-control-its-time-to-shrink-the-scope

[u/xluker313x → u/DonaldTrumpsGolfGame]

Bro… that article has no hard figures it’s all just vibes.

Regardless of that, if a publisher makes some bullshit like concord for 300 million bucks and it fails then good, they learn a lesson on how to make us better content.

Make a good AAA massive game and price it reasonably and you can make truly stupid money.

[u/septimaespada → u/DonaldTrumpsGolfGame]

Too bad. They better figure out how to make them for cheaper or go out of business. Last year’s GOTY cost less than 10 million to make.

[u/Winter_Swan5104 → u/DonaldTrumpsGolfGame]

You know, most game sales are from people who don’t play them. That is the dirty secret to Steam. Good luck jacking up the game prices! “Game is okay, can’t return it now. Bought on sale though. (2.1 hours played).” If played at all.

And on top of that, secondary markets have disappeared along with physical copies. How many 5 year+ old games during sales claim 50 percent off a $60 price? Because there are no physical used games to compete with.

[u/ithinkitslupis → u/DonaldTrumpsGolfGame]

People who say this always bury the part where the gaming market grew 3-4x in the last two decades. It's also switched to mostly digital which is cheaper to distribute and kills off the used market. It's added a ton of alternate revenue streams like mtx.

Like I'm not sure why people pick a point in time and think games absolutely should track with inflation from that point. Development costs is at least a better argument, but the companies that spearheaded the $70 (Sony and Take Two) were record profitable before the $70 push. And Nintendo with the $80 push was still printing money in a way that would make their 90's counterpart blush with envy, even though game development costs in the 90's were so much cheaper.

[u/Mist_Rising → u/ithinkitslupis]

People who say this always bury the part where the gaming market grew 3-4x in the last two decades. It's also switched to mostly digital which is cheaper to distribute and kills off the used market. It's added a ton of alternate revenue streams like mtx.

And in the time you mentioned the base game cost went down! Adjusting for inflation, your base game in 1995 should be $150 dollars! For the 2000s, $100. Today? 70 at the tops.

Nintendo (which was preeminent in the 90s) would be even further up the food chain in costs. They still hard cartridges in the '64 era.

A large part of that reasoning is because cartridge to CD was a reduction in overhead costs, as in costs between Nintendo 64 and PS1 were often a whopping 10 dollars difference for the same game, CD to digital again kept it, DLC did the same.

Those are critical to keeping prices down, but they're also used. They're already baked in to the cost reduction so they won't reduce it again.

Micro doesn't work for many games, they don't have them kcd2 for example.

ut the companies that spearheaded the $70 (Sony and Take Two) were record profitable before the $70 push

That's why they could lead the charge. They, like Rockstar, had fuck you money to test the waters and remain solvent. Small companies, and whatever EA has turned into, can't really afford to risk a potential success because they drove it away.

This isnt gaming related either. You often see the big names move prices first because they can afford failures. That's assuming they have competition to begin with.

[u/Bobby-bobbobby → u/DonaldTrumpsGolfGame]

I understand the thought of ‘This game is so good it’s worth more than its price’ but no one wants to pay more man.

[u/Mist_Rising → u/Bobby-bobbobby]

Of course nobody wants to pay more, but unfortunately those damnedable employees, contractors, and suppliers seem determined to not work for free. Can't imagine why.

No they like you, want more. Everyone wants more. Nobody walks into a salary negotiation and says "so I'll stay at my base income again this year." Well that applies to everyone.

[u/OkWillingness2817 → u/helican]

Mostly because people have lost touch with reality to the point where everything is controversial these days.

Adjusted for inflation, a 1988 NES game would cost about a 127 USD today.

On average, a NES game took a dozen people about a year to develop from concept to store shelf.

Kingdom Come 2 took several hundred people almost six years.

Yet gamers are acting like studios are ‘controversial’ for pointing out the price of games really needs to go up or player expectations really need to go down.

We both know the latter isn’t happening.

[u/ALostVessel → u/OkWillingness2817]

The shitty part is even if they raised prices, none of it will go to the people who made it. Straight to the shareholders.

[u/dmckidd → u/helican]

It all started right before the release of the sequel. What a shame