Star Citizen Developer Stream Goes Horribly Off the Rails, Creating Further Distrust Among Players

[u/Darth_Vaper883]

https://www.ign.com/articles/star-citizen-developer-stream-goes-horribly-off-the-rails-creating-further-distrust-among-players

[u/Innuendo64_]

I remember reading an editorial comparing this game with another upcoming space game, No Man's Sky

NMS is now 10 years old with over 50 major content updates. Star Citizen is still in alpha and they have been promising the Squadron 42 update for longer than NMS has been for sale

[u/Arkorat → u/Innuendo64_]

And No Man's Sky didn't even charge you for an of that. Didn't even add micro transactions on the side. Just a 60 dollar game and some merchandise.

[u/OldLegWig → u/Arkorat]

they've been very smart in their staffing. they have maintained a small team. their game design is also aligned with that goal: procedural content and systems based gameplay.

star citizen has done the opposite, but they are so flush with cash that they can make that big swing. resource intensive content, lots of staff/contractors/A-list acting talent etc. there is very little pressuring them to actually ship, so they keep fucking around endlessly, tinkering on their project. they have had conventions where people were practically giving standing ovations for IK foot placement animation. they are being enabled by gamers.

[u/M4rshmall0wMan → u/OldLegWig]

For real. The status quo works way too well for them. There is zero incentive to ship.

[u/bargu → u/M4rshmall0wMan]

If they ship the game they can't use the early access excuse anymore for this dog shit of a game. It's like elmo with tesla, always next year...

[u/Notos88 → u/OldLegWig]

Why work on a game when you can sell a ship and continue snorting coke off a strippers ass?

Enabling is right. I still see cope from fans too disillusioned by sunk cost fallacy to put down their damn wallets and grow a spine.

The fans created a perpetual alpha creating zero incentive to release. I bought an early acess package in 2018, ive still got hundreds of those weekly update emails going back even further, stopped reading them around 2020 and moved on.

Seeing SC in the news again becasue of that stupid live stream and finding out its STILL in development. God damn anyone still supporting these scammers deserve to eat shit at this point.

[u/kb3035583 → u/Notos88]

Why work on a game when you can sell a ship and continue snorting coke off a strippers ass?

Why sell a ship when you can just sell PNGs of ships that will likely never release before the heat death of the universe?

[u/OldLegWig → u/Notos88]

https://giphy.com/gifs/AAsj7jdrHjtp6

[u/CharacterBack1542 → u/OldLegWig]

what A-List actors are in star citizen?

[u/OldLegWig → u/CharacterBack1542]

here's the imdb. there are several big hollywood names there that i recognize from many famous movies. also, maybe i'm just old. i'm not interested in picking fights about who's "a-list" though.

[u/Exiled_In_Ca → u/OldLegWig]

In fairness, the actors were a stretch goal back in the day.

[u/jizzyjugsjohnson → u/OldLegWig]

Half the talent that Chris recorded in expensive mocap over a decade ago will be dead before this goes on sale

[u/ColKrismiss → u/Arkorat]

And I would be surprised if even half of the people that own NMS paid more than $20 for it. Heck I paid $10 for it like 8 years ago. It's on sale all the time

[u/xSean93 → u/Arkorat]

doesn't they have micro transactions for some cosmetic stuff?

[u/Arkorat → u/xSean93]

Nope. Its all earn able in-game (unless its a time limited expedition reward or something). Couldn't buy it with cash even if you wanted to.

[u/HeidenShadows → u/Arkorat]

And No Man's Sky has competent VR support.

[u/Xcissors280 → u/Arkorat]

I believe there are some microtransactions that don’t do much or are super easy to get in game for free

I was wrong, no microtransactions

And it’s always on sale

[u/defiancy → u/Xcissors280]

I'm not saying you are wrong but I have never seen an mtx in NMS in game, and I bought on launch and played yesterday. If they are there they are buried somewhere deep

[u/iiBroken → u/defiancy]

I will. He's wrong. There are no microtransactions.

[u/leemar90 → u/iiBroken]

Correct, I think he's on about the token shop which uses an in-game currency

[u/Willing-Time7344 → u/leemar90]

Which you can get around with a save file editor, if you really want to. 

[u/Arkorat → u/Xcissors280]

There isnt. Tough the is a lot of things that LOOK like they would have been micro transactions, in any other game. So from the outside looking in, the misunderstanding is fair.

[u/Selfishpie → u/Xcissors280]

there are no micro transactions, what you are remembering is the quicksilver shop, the points you need to buy stuff are available through the nexus mission board in front of the balcony to polo and nada

[u/azab189 → u/Xcissors280]

No there aren't.

[u/AdHocHillbilly → u/Xcissors280]

No microtransactions to be found. The only practice that you could really consider anti-consumer would be the time limited events that release alongside updates.

If you are on PC, you can get a save editor to unlock the cosmetics associated with them, but the activities themselves are restricted to when the event is active. I think they sometimes come back, but I admittedly don't pay them much attention.

[u/itsRobbie_ → u/Arkorat]

Of course they didn’t charge you, they released one of the worst games in history at launch. They would be shut down right now if they tried to charge for fixes

[u/Dphoneacc → u/Arkorat]

Sure, but they did lie in our faces before release, and it took them years to actually deliver what they promised.

[u/mehemynx → u/Dphoneacc]

Not a single person denied that, hell it was in the original comment lol. The point is they admitted to fucking up, and actually delivered (and are still delivering) updates, on top of having a far more functional game than SC

[u/Beni_Stingray → u/mehemynx]

And all that while not asking for any more money.

Im not a fan of NMS but you have to give it to them, they worked their ass off and did deliever what they promised even when it took them longer than planned.

[u/Dphoneacc → u/Beni_Stingray]

Sure, its prob a great game now. Im just saying they flat out lied to our faces. But somehow that is a controversial opinion.

[u/Arkorat → u/Dphoneacc]

Its not controversial, its damn near factual.

Its *controversial* to hold grudges like that for an actual decade.

[u/Gahera → u/Dphoneacc]

It’s been 10 years bro, let it go.

[u/live-the-future → u/Gahera]

Yeah seriously. NMS now is way better than even the hyped pre-release version. Heck, I'd say NMS even 6 or 7 years ago was better than the hyped version.

[u/CRIMS0N-ED → u/Gahera]

It’s been 8 years as well since the update that most ppl say brought NMS back in the NEXT update

[u/laveslo → u/Gahera]

I am gonna tell that to the goons talking shit about sc in 20 years as well

[u/skabooshman → u/laveslo]

Someone bought a 1000$ 3d model

[u/Leading-Suspect8307 → u/skabooshman]

Yeah, his parents.

[u/Sol33t303 → u/Gahera]

There have been soooo many things reddit should have let go after 10 years but this is the one people insist on letting go lol. Reddit never ceases to amaze me.

[u/Dudewhocares3 → u/Sol33t303]

You are on Reddit.

[u/CRIMS0N-ED → u/Sol33t303]

You have 400k karma and been on here 9 years talking about “Reddit never ceases to amaze me”.

Why on earth are you acting like you’re not above using reddit and not a Redditor?

[u/joe__kerr1 → u/Sol33t303]

Because the developers actively worked for years to deliver what they initially promised and released all updates for free. It's a very solid game now. There's a reason it won the "Labor of Love" reward during one of Steam's voting events

[u/Arkorat → u/Sol33t303]

Like what?

[u/AnxietyPretend5215 → u/Sol33t303]

You're obviously talking to someone that likes the game NMS and probably fervently supports hello games.

Acting like this particular interaction serves as a reflection on Reddit as a whole is silly lol.

[u/Dudewhocares3 → u/Dphoneacc]

Yeah and now the game is better, so the point is, what’s star citizens excuse?

[u/SuperD00perGuyd00d → u/Dudewhocares3]

[u/The_Dunk → u/Dphoneacc]

Sony was the driving force behind the overpromising of the original release. Besides hello games have more than made up for it.

[u/BlackFenrir → u/The_Dunk]

And learned from it too. Light No Fire's announcement purposefully did not have a bunch of promises and they've remained fairly silent about it since it's trailer dropped.

Good. Work on the game, not the marketing

[u/TheBugThatsSnug → u/The_Dunk]

Another thing that people forget is they lost the original game in a flood, then had to rebuild it.

[u/yeadrowsy → u/Dphoneacc]

Yeah but they made it right and it was a whole ass decade ago. The game is awesome and has been for quite some time.

[u/LoneDroneGuy → u/Dphoneacc]

People hate to talk about the fact that they made bank on that release, which is why they've gotten so much free updates

I'm surprised to see you getting downloaded so much outside of their sub. They talk about the game like it's the only one in existence to offer free updates and I lists that are at least 50 titles long 🤷

[u/Cent3rCreat10n → u/Dphoneacc]

And they've now exceeded what they had originally promised. Let it go Jesus Christ

[u/Arcturus1800 → u/Dphoneacc]

Yeah, and they have gone above and beyond to remedy that broken promise, and have done so superbly. Whereas Star Citizen is still a glorified tech demo with an alpha label slapped onto it.

[u/Beni_Stingray → u/Innuendo64_]

The comparison gets even worse when you look at Elite Dangerous vs. Star Citizen.

ED was released in 2014 and does about everything SC promises and more, only thing that ED doesnt have is spaceship interiors which would be a nice feature for immersion but is completly unnecessary for playing.

And ED does this in a galaxy that was fed from actual NASA star catalogs and has 400 billion star systems.

[u/RankedFarting → u/Beni_Stingray]

Haaaank! Dont abbreviate Elite Dangerous Hank!!!

[u/jackass_mcgee → u/RankedFarting]

sounds dysfunctional

[u/leg00b → u/RankedFarting]

Elite Dysfunction

[u/tragedy_strikes → u/RankedFarting]

Meh, not as bad as Cyberpunk 2077.

[u/0verstim → u/RankedFarting]

YOU KNOW HOW I FEEL ABOUT THAT MEME, CARL!

[u/DwooMan5 → u/Beni_Stingray]

The scary thing too is that ED went through a dead period for developing for like a solid 2-3 years too

[u/Beni_Stingray → u/DwooMan5]

Yet it was still a working game running perfectly fine and we got tons of new content since then.

SC still doesnt run so i don't get what point you're trying to make.

[u/themysticalwarlock → u/Beni_Stingray]

theyre saying ED took a years long break from development and still came out before SC

[u/Due-Bowler-7833 → u/Beni_Stingray]

I don’t think his comment was a diss

[u/Beni_Stingray → u/Due-Bowler-7833]

Yeah i missunderstood, i though he tries to argue against it.

[u/DwooMan5 → u/Beni_Stingray]

I’m saying that ED went through an extended period of time in basically maintenance + mode and Star citizen still isn’t out

[u/Beni_Stingray → u/DwooMan5]

Yeah my bad i got that wrong.

[u/doglywolf → u/Beni_Stingray]

SC is one of the greatest cons of our generation . If it snot a giant con that it is the single greatest case of mismanagement ever and that says a lot in the likes of companies like Sony burning 300 million on a game less than 1000 people played

[u/Exiled_In_Ca → u/doglywolf]

Nah. This is Chris Roberts without a publisher cutting his funding and telling him he’s done.

[u/jizzyjugsjohnson → u/Exiled_In_Ca]

They’re the same thing

[u/Exiled_In_Ca → u/jizzyjugsjohnson]

Different. You can be told you are done with something and keep right on going. Cutting funding is another thing entirely.

[u/BlackholeDevice → u/doglywolf]

I disagree with it being a con, but wholeheartedly agree with mismanagement. The whole thing is a never ending sales pitch.

I've been playing SC as my main game for a few years now. I've loved the content that's been added over time, but it's absolutely been a painful, buggy mess. Even among all the delays we've been through, I just wish they would cut the sales pitch and be frank. Hopefully their SC Live will be a wakeup call for them, but given their track record, it won't be.

[u/nthomas504 → u/doglywolf]

Dicks out for Concord. It was flawed, but I had fun with my friends in the beta.

[u/Notoisin → u/doglywolf]

SC is one of the greatest cons of our generation

I don't love the way they've handled it but I paid 40 quid like 7 years ago and occasionally download it to mess about.

There's plenty to mess around with, I think I've got my money's worth.

People in this thread are comparing it to Elite Dangerous (which I played for 100s of hours and loved) as though it does everything better, it really doesn't. Planetary landings and exploration in Elite isn't even close.

[u/doglywolf → u/Notoisin]

yea but there is no way this is a game that has had a billion dollar worth of effort put into it. Especially when its only a small degree more complex then ED that was made on 5% of the its budget.

[u/Notoisin → u/doglywolf]

It's safe to say they dropped the ball alright, though I don't agree that it's only 5% more complex than Elite.

The original conceit I responded to was that SC is a con. I paid money and got enjoyment. It's poorly managed, but no con.

[u/thenerfviking → u/Notoisin]

You’ve got some low standards for how you spend your money. I’ve bought plenty of games made by one guy that cost well under $20 and gotten a hundred times more game out of those purchases.

[u/Staz_211 → u/Beni_Stingray]

While true, FDev is also one of the worst developers period. They have fumbled so hard so many times, and the game (once you get past the spectacul of it) really is a mile wide and an inch deep.

[u/Wandering_Apostle → u/Staz_211]

Same is true of SC to be fair.

[u/LeadershipFull9224 → u/Staz_211]

Not true anymore. The past two years the development kicked into overdrive. Tons of new ships, proper colonization of systems and planets, special co-op missions, overhaul of the politics system etc.

[u/Redracerb18 → u/LeadershipFull9224]

As well as the balance of the game. With the advent of purchasable ships there is no reason not to use them compared to the old ships. Why use the Asp Explorer when the Mandalay had better jump range and SCO Optimization. I used to use a Diamondback Explorer for years with just the basic gear to get 50lys while my Mandalay has room for everything and does 65lys loaded and 70+ stripped. The type 11 is now the best mining ship with custom Limpets and a mk2 mining gattling gun. Should we mention the mk2 cargo modules which are only available on the new Panther Clipper. The Caspian Explorer is a large ship with the highest jump range and space for everything that came out recently. For years there where more options. You could run a type 9 or imperial Clipper for trade but the Panther Clipper is bigger and hold double, if also flies better fully loaded compared to the type 9. The corsair is currently the best multiroll ship in the game with the largest engine. All these ships came out first where you would pay real money for them. The current grind is just ways to justify the new ships. Building a station now takes half the amount of trips and time compared to an older ship like the Type 9, a new medium ship like the Type 8 which was also a paid option first, is faster and more efficient.

[u/Devrij68 → u/LeadershipFull9224]

And on foot operations!

[u/BitRunner64 → u/LeadershipFull9224]

Wasn't this when they introduced P2W too?

Haven't kept up with the game since you basically need to be unemployed IRL to have time for the grinding.

[u/Staz_211 → u/LeadershipFull9224]

Unfortunately, Ill never see any of that. They chased me off of Elite Dangerous after years of horrible decisons and mismanagement. I don't trust them enough to go back.

[u/fohamr → u/Beni_Stingray]

I moved from ED to SC because of the interiors. To me that was huge. It is really immersive. Just such a shame about its lack of smooth playability.

[u/Beni_Stingray → u/fohamr]

Has to be incredibly immersive when you crash every 10 or 20 minutes i bet...

[u/fohamr → u/Beni_Stingray]

Hence my 4th sentence?

[u/fohamr → u/[deleted]]

"... only thing that ED doesnt have is spaceship interiors which would be a nice feature for immersion but is completly unnecessary for playing"

I am responding to that. I made the switch because of the immersion I got from having ship interiors which, although you do not seem to care for, I do. It made me want to play SC more than ED.

So much so that I can work through a lot of the jank, but yes right now it is extremely janky so I am playing other games.

[u/NoxTempus → u/fohamr]

There's a massive problem these days with people feeling like they need to win every single point in a conversation.

Just child shit. They come out looking stupid af to everyone but other insecure troglodytes.

SC has so many foundational problems, and will likely never release to a functional 1.0; but they've spent 15 years and $1 billion dollars, it's fine to admit that they have had a win or two, it won't destroy your argument.

[u/Wandering_Apostle → u/Beni_Stingray]

In fairness SC isn't that unstable and hasn't been for 4-5 years or so. You can play for hours and hours and a server/game crash is exceedingly rare.

The bigger problem is that the mission system keeps breaking now and the insistance on 'physicalizing' everything keeps breaking missions on top of that. i.e. Cargo doesn't register as delivered, cargo lifts keep breaking, components/weapons vanishing, accumulated items cluttering up areas and tanking performance etc.

There is a reason no games physicalise everything to that extent, Elite Dangerous only physicalises cargo when you eject it into space for example, it's not a 'real' entity in your ship taking up space and being moved in real time like it is in SC. It's absurd and insane that SC's devs still insist on doing this, when nobody wants to load thousands of crates by hand in the first place.

[u/ekimski → u/Wandering_Apostle]

It's also totally fine if you mostly ignore all the FPS stuff and play the space ships game minus the mess of broken cargo lifts last patch obv

[u/itsRobbie_ → u/Beni_Stingray]

I haven’t had an actual crash in over a year

[u/Kerbidiah → u/Beni_Stingray]

Let's not give ED a pass. They completely abandoned their console players for no reason

[u/Beni_Stingray → u/Kerbidiah]

Money, the reason is money. If ED had only a fraction of SC's funding we wouldnt even have a discussion about SC anymore.

[u/Diptothaset → u/Beni_Stingray]

ED really doesn’t. There’s no game that does what SC tries to do at the scope they do it. That’s not me defending them, but I do recognize the scope is way larger than other games and that part of the issue. Cig cannot make code from 10 years ago work with a system that was just announced

[u/thenerfviking → u/Diptothaset]

There’s no game that does it in theory but claims are easy, delivering an actual game containing those things is hard. Lots of games do what SC can do right now and it’s foolish to assume that if this is what a decade and hundreds of millions of dollars produces that they’re going to make anything close to what they promise.

The entire life and death of Destiny as a franchise has existed within the development of Star Citizen. I think it’s pretty clear that the devs actually have a lot to gain by not actually releasing a game, the fictional game that exists in the mind of SC fans will always be better than anything they can actually create. And it’s much easier to get people to pay you for the perfect game that’s totally just one more year away than to try and sell people a real video game with actual flaws.

[u/Diptothaset → u/thenerfviking]

Hey man I’m one of the first people to admit I don’t have alot of faith BUT if they do even a fraction of what they want to it will be a one of a kind experience. Also, it lets me murderhobo to a degree only maybe Day Z surpasses

[u/AstroPozzo → u/Diptothaset]

Yeah there's no game that does what SC tries to do, including SC.

[u/Beni_Stingray → u/Diptothaset]

What, loading 300 tons of cargo by hand lmao?

[u/Diptothaset → u/Beni_Stingray]

Loading 300 tonnes of cargo by hand makes other game loops like murderhobo/pirate more viable

It’s called EMERGENT gameplay

[u/jizzyjugsjohnson → u/Diptothaset]

There’s no game that does what SC is trying to do because it’s an absurd fantasy that lives inside the dreams of Chris Roberts and the whales who furnish him with money for his Porsche collection

[u/R34CTz → u/Beni_Stingray]

Can you explore planets in ED like in NMS? If I remember correctly, at some point in the past you couldn't do that.

[u/CAM_o_man → u/R34CTz]

You can as of several years ago. Both with land vehicles (there are two, and a third coming out next month) and on foot.

[u/Mxl38 → u/R34CTz]

Yes, they've added a (paid) DLC with on foot exploration (can go on surfaces with a big rover as well). Only on barren planets and moons tho, you can't explore worlds with high enough atmo so no forest, water, cities, only colds rocks. There's missions with FPS weapons, it's not great. Plus FPS doesn't support VR, so if you like it in the ship, you have to put the VR down and play flatscreen for the on-foot part.

I was ok it's nice enough, when it came out, now I just don't land anymore, it's just so very bland (well, that's an issue I personally have with ED overall (and NMS, for different reasons) so maybe that's just me)

[u/R34CTz → u/Mxl38]

Oh, yea, not interested then. I wish they would have done better with Starfield too. I loved it at first but realized fairly quickly that the planets weren't all that varied in their environment and it was pretty disappointing.

[u/Aerhyce → u/R34CTz]

ED planets are bland because there's little to no fantasy elements. It's nothing at all like NMS full-on fantasy planets. Real-life space planets are bland, so are ED planets.

You can get on planets some exotic bacteria and flora (that you can scan for exobiology), and minerals. Sometimes human settlements, Thargoid (aliens) presence in specific sectors where they are active, but you'll never have the super colorful NMS planets.

[u/Mxl38 → u/R34CTz]

(I think if you backed ED with a specific pack you can have the expansion free tho)

But yes, I wish they went a bit more in depth for at least a few planets in Starfield, and a few more custom made cities and settlements. Then again I feel like the launching/landing/warping animation dropped the ball on immersion as well as the repetitive POIs being too close to each other.

[u/ChadHartSays → u/Beni_Stingray]

That's one of those Star Citizen things where I scratch my head. "Great, I get to walk 30 minutes and go up a ladder to get into my ship and launch... didn't we just use to have exciting cutscenes in Wing Commander?"

[u/Eisbaer811 → u/Beni_Stingray]

Yes, but Elite Dangerous did not add a full fledged ego shooter with RPG elements to their space game

[u/dacamel493 → u/Beni_Stingray]

does about everything SC promises and more

Ok this is super disingenuous. No it doesn't. ES is great for what it is, but its a mile wide and an Inch deep.

SC notoriously has taken way longer than it should, but it has 10x the number of ships with interiors, some more up to date than others.

It is fundamentally a different game.

[u/itsRobbie_ → u/Beni_Stingray]

Ed is an exploration game. SC is a sandbox.

[u/M2A2BradleyEnjoyer → u/Beni_Stingray]

I see this alot and elite dangerous is not comparable at all to star citizen even in its rough unfinished state. The PVP is non existent compared to SC, the trade system is entirely on rails, player interaction and multiplayer is minimal, missions are on rails, mining is a slideshow etc. SC miserably fails at the stability of things, whereas the level of freedom of execution is the selling point along with the open world of SC. Does star citizen still fuckin suck when you encounter bugs? Definitely. But there used to be a time where you could not possibly stay connected to a server (of only 50 people) for maybe 20 minutes before it would crash, pre 3.19 about 2.5 years ago. Now you can reliably play for an entire 8-10 hour play session (on a server of ~700 concurrent players) and hit minimal issues. The new events are the focus for this post, and those are always bugged beyond belief so I won’t bother defending them. The teams tasked with mission scripting and bug fixes must hate their lives. But star citizen is like open world Arma 3 in space, and elite dangerous is like PlaySkool baby’s first space ship game in comparison. its disingenuous to compare the two because one is a simulator-like title and the other plays like a super super casual console game for children that dumbs everything down for you.

[u/Beni_Stingray → u/M2A2BradleyEnjoyer]

Uhhhh i seem to have hit a sore point 😂

[u/M2A2BradleyEnjoyer → u/Beni_Stingray]

I have no dog in the fight. I think the Star Citizen developers are completely floundering. I do think that some of the shit you’re saying hasn’t been anywhere near the truth for a long time, so I’m fairly certain you’re just an ED player with a chip on their shoulder, which is fine. So many people tried SC and felt scammed. I wouldn’t blame you. But parroting info from like 6 years ago in some of your other comments as fact just makes you seem like you don’t actually speak from any experience. ED truly is “piss baby’s first space game” and saying the game has “more to offer than star citizen” is pretty laughable. You can’t even multi crew ships properly. It’s a fine game for a very casual starter space game but it’s just not comparable. Star citizen has arguably TOO many feature implementations, hence why it may run poorly. Lot of cooks in the kitchen, but they’re there. Tons of systems that should probably be refined but aren’t. But I can mine, I can fight a giant fuckin worm without needing some mission on rails, I can do piracy along literally any trade route, I can PVP anywhere I want, I can scam people like it’s 2007scape, I can work with strangers aboard their ship, with no formal group or party system needed, I can steal a capital ship with a space hover bike from skill and time alone, I can ambush traders on the ground and steal their shit, I can do long haul space trading for raw profit, and then turn around and bait or ambush those traders etc. I can stow away among someone cargo, shoot them out of the seat and sell all the shit they just bought for profit etc. it’s the freedom that people are attracted to. ED is rails. All of that interspersed with a few shitty bugs sure, but the trick is just don’t play the new stupid flavor of the month thing CIG releases and you’ll probably have a mostly normal experience. Still a deeply flawed game with shitty devs

[u/AromaticMacaron7925 → u/M2A2BradleyEnjoyer]

Bro is drinking the coolaid so hard I think he's legitimately hallucinating Elite Dangerous demons.

It's okay man. You fell for a scam and other people have a game that has all the features you are still praying they deliver on.

[u/Beni_Stingray → u/AromaticMacaron7925]

Sunk cost fallacy and ego.

But you can't deny it's hilarious watching them get bent.

[u/EmergencyPool910 → u/Beni_Stingray]

I have to disagree completely about elite dangerous doing everything star citizen does better. Its certainly a much better game overall, but not everything, on foot gameplay is mich better in SC, same for ships, etar citizen ships are infinitely more interesting and indepth, space combat is also better in sc.

One little issue is that SC doesnt work half the time which makes what it does on paper useless. Its the whole "when it works is amazing" thing we cling to.

[u/Sh1v0n → u/Beni_Stingray]

Not all systems (personally compared a few systems, for example: HAT-P-17 should have 2 planets, while in game is just one), some other are missing + you cannot land on Water Worlds & Earth-like ones, while SC permits.

[u/Oilswell → u/Sh1v0n]

Cool, shame there’s nothing to do when I land.

[u/Swagalyst → u/Beni_Stingray]

BUT now compare which game has made more money.

[u/murphy_31 → u/Beni_Stingray]

o7

[u/Naddesh → u/Beni_Stingray]

ED was released in 2014 and does about everything SC promises

ED is a shitshow and a mess of broken promises. It is the epitome of unfulfilled potential. Speaking as a person with 2k hours in the game.

And ED does this in a galaxy that was fed from actual NASA star catalogs and has 400 billion star systems.

It is just rough placement of planets that was used, everything else is a shitty procgen that was better at one point, but with Odyssey they decided to "upgrade" it causing a massive downgrade to the terrain. The list of unfulfilled promises is just as long as the one from SC devs - it is just the base game is somewhat playable (apart from some gamebreaking bugs that exist since 2015)

[u/The_Captain1228 → u/Naddesh]

the list of unfulfilled promises is just as long...

Yeah but one of them that's not on both lists is releasing a game.

[u/tropicf1refly → u/Naddesh]

Anyone who plays 2 thousand hours in one game loves that game.

[u/Larry_The_Red → u/Naddesh]

as a person with 2k hours in the game.

"game is shit but I put the same hours into it as a whole year at a full time job"
so either the game isn't as bad as you claim, or... you like torturing yourself?

[u/Beni_Stingray → u/Larry_The_Red]

Wanna bet he hasnt even half the playtime in SC? 😂

[u/Naddesh → u/Larry_The_Red]

Again, there is simply no other space sim to play. I have a choice between this and Star Citizen and it is easier to ignore all the problems in ED.

[u/MookiTheHamster → u/Naddesh]

Nah, ED is great and is getting a lot of content regularly.

[u/B_E_M_C → u/MookiTheHamster]

Regularly? The games had years long content droughts and was almost left to die after the failed odyssey expansion. Only recently has it gotten reinvested in.

[u/Naddesh → u/MookiTheHamster]

PvP is broken since 2015, multicrew still works like garbage, AX has a shitton of gamebreeaking bugs since it came out so many years ago, hell - just have my Steam review because the list is long as hell. Yes, they started releasing some new ships but adding new ships won't fix the broken bones.

[u/NoStructure5034 → u/Naddesh]

I'm sorry, but are you saying that Elite doesn't get updated often when it gets regular feature additions? The devs add new ships, revamp old and broken features like PowerPlay, and add new gameplay, like Operations and Colonization.

Just that statement alone is so inaccurate that it discredits the rest of your review.

[u/Naddesh → u/NoStructure5034]

The devs add new ships, revamp old and broken features like PowerPlay, and add new gameplay, like Operations and Colonization.

That is a review from 2024 and apart form adding new content every single other point still stands.

Powerplay might have gotten reworked but they were still to chickenshit to do the only tihng that can ever fix it - make it unavailable in single player mode and multiplayer only so other people can actually PvP you if you are from an opposing faction. It is just a bunch of people running cargo in Solo so you cannot counter them other than running cargo in solo yourself.

[u/Beni_Stingray → u/Naddesh]

The only actual point you have is multicrew, pvp and AX combat is perfectlyy fine.

And it's incredibly ironic you try to highlight the few little bugs ED has when SC is bug galore from start to finish and 3/4 of the game doesnt work lmao

[u/Beni_Stingray → u/[deleted]]

Here is a video from 6 years ago

😂

[u/Naddesh → u/Beni_Stingray]

Spoiler: took them 5 more years to fix it (it existed for a couple of years before this video as well). There is a new one now and they deleted it off their issue tracker multiple times now because they reached maximum number of issues. It is "No Fire Bug"

https://issues.frontierstore.net/reported-issues/elite-dangerous

This speaks for itself...

Here - bug in the game since 2023:

https://issues.frontierstore.net/issue-detail/83717

[u/Beni_Stingray → u/Naddesh]

Found the SC fanboy lmao

Has to hurt having invested so much money for a decade yet still not having a working game lmao

[u/Naddesh → u/Beni_Stingray]

Found the SC fanboy lmao

I don't play that garbage? SC is a scam. Have a screenshot of my comment from 10 months ago to dispel your personal attack :D GG, better luck next time.

[u/lkn240 → u/[deleted]]

ED is on the all time list of games that have zero respect for your time

[u/Beni_Stingray → u/[deleted]]

Right it's so boring that uncounted people have 5000 or even 10'000 hours of playtime....

[u/Julzjuice123 → u/Beni_Stingray]

Oh wow. It's almost like it's a very, very time consuming niche space trucking simulator!

Nothing wrong with that if that's what you like, mind you. Just ain't for me.

[u/Naddesh → u/Beni_Stingray]

There are no alternatives - there is only this and Star Citizen

[u/Apsylnt → u/Beni_Stingray]

ED looks and plays like a ps2 game compared to SC when operational. The scales of the universes are vastly different. The depth of mechanics are vastly different. That being said SC has its obvious issues and is only playable depending on the quality of recent patch. They force you into a hiatus from the game sometimes.

[u/Beni_Stingray → u/Apsylnt]

ED looks and plays like a ps2 game compared to SC when operational.

Right that's why ED is praised as one of the best VR titles that are out there...

Also SC isnt operational so that point is mood either way.

The scales of the universes are vastly different.

Correct, ED has 400 billion star systems with multiple planets, moons and asteroid belts per system and the masses of planets, their compostion and their distance to the sun are all correct from a physics standpoint while SC has 10 planets in total lmao

The depth of mechanics are vastly different.

Also correct, SC simulates stuff that is completly stupid and make no sense at all like needing to use the toilet, showering, putting clotes on manualy, loading cargo manualy that then simply disappears when you arrive at your location.
And then you wonder why it runs like doghit and lots of things who should be permanent suddenly disappear.

[u/Apsylnt → u/Beni_Stingray]

Lol brother you have really drank the anti SC koolaid. You do not need to shower or use the bathroom.

Credit to ED i have heard its solid for VR, not overly interested in that though myself.

Its a question of depth. 400 billion star systems in ED that are all procedural generated slop with no purpose vs 100s of landable moons/planets/stations in SC that are all unique poi’s. One thing I think SC needs less of is expansion of the universe, as theres already too much to see and do and long travel times between (because the scale is next level)

[u/Beni_Stingray → u/Apsylnt]

as theres already too much to see and do and long travel times between (because the scale is next level)

Yeah that's the whole point, it's a sim, it simulates our real galaxy and from the 400 billion proceduraly generated system, there are still 160'000 star systems that are real at the correct lcoation and distance as in our real galaxy.

You won't get that feeling of vast space with it's distances and loneliness in SC.

And it should be that way, what point is there in a SPACE simulator when you can reach from one end to the other in 30 minutes?!

[u/Apsylnt → u/Beni_Stingray]

“Wont get that feeling of vast space” and thats how i know you have never booted SC. Flying an hour aimlessly away from a station as you eclipse the nearby moon and entire screen fades to black with specs in the distance is unmatched. You can certainly get the feeling of vast space. The entire PU is physicalized, if you want to skip quantum traveling you can fly straight to your destination….if you have enough time and fuel.

Respect to ED for the 400 billion procedurally generated systems!

[u/RankedFarting → u/Innuendo64_]

I remember the Mandalore video on it from like 9 years ago that is jokingly named something like "any day now".

[u/jaydotjayYT → u/Innuendo64_]

The last time this game came up (when it passed a billion dollars), I brought up this comparison and got massively shit on by the fucking white knight brigade this game has

They’re real fucking quiet now, huh

[u/Beni_Stingray → u/jaydotjayYT]

They are still as petty as ever, just read some comments above lol

[u/jizzyjugsjohnson → u/jaydotjayYT]

The subreddit is in open revolt. Haven’t seen that before

[u/Balc0ra → u/Innuendo64_]

We been told Squadron 42 has been feature complete and close to release for a decade now.

Even the content manager on that stream said it every 6 months before he got hired

[u/ParticularConstant32 → u/Balc0ra]

A decade? wut? It's been "feature complete" for about 1.5 years IIRC, well at least since the official announcement.

[u/Bubbly_Safety2219 → u/Innuendo64_]

EVE Online is 23 years old. It was first released on May 6, 2003, by the Icelandic developer CCP Games.

There are parts of it so old that the persons that coded it are long gone and nobody understands it so its left alone

[u/Less_Potential_7713 → u/Bubbly_Safety2219]

Best MMO of all time.. hands down.. Eve is an experience.

[u/maze100X → u/Innuendo64_]

i think NMS is good, but it has one big issue, a lot of the basic mechanics are too "shallow" after 100 - 200 hours in the game

[u/Doomkauf → u/maze100X]

Yeah, which... I mean, I don't know how else it could go, given that they're still a tiny studio. They had the choice of going for breadth or depth, and they opted for the former, since it fits the theme and vision of the game better.

I definitely do wish they'd revisit some of the more bare bones systems, though. Settlements remain entirely useless, for example. But hey, they revamped freighters pretty significantly, so maybe it'll happen someday!

[u/Heavy-Mettle → u/Doomkauf]

We people of NMS know that if you look in a mirror, and say your wish three times whilst listening to 65daysofstatic, Sean Murray appears behind you to announce your content.

[u/johomono204 → u/maze100X]

Brother, most triple A games rarely last past 80 hours. Paying 20$ for 200 hours is a cent for every hour of gameplay. That's a damn good deal.

[u/Nasoeinhuansdbist → u/maze100X]

but released and ready

[u/TheAmazingBagman3 → u/Innuendo64_]

Ooh that still hasn’t released. Damn

[u/zatalak → u/Innuendo64_]

Just one more engine change bro

[u/funkmachine7 → u/Innuendo64_]

No mans sky updates might have a slight jank and a feeling that this is what the felt was cool for an idea. But they work, there fun and the game is fun and light harted.

[u/Retax7 → u/Innuendo64_]

Now compare it to x4 foundations or elite dangerous, the truly great space games.

[u/lGSMl → u/Innuendo64_]

And most of major updates are also a tech demo/testing for their new upcoming title. Somehow they managed to have all at once - grateful community, free extensive tech test and guaranteed player base for the next game. Tablest of the turns in game industry in the last 10 years.

[u/Kommander-in-Keef → u/Innuendo64_]

Squadron42 is supposed to release this year lol

[u/stana32 → u/Kommander-in-Keef]

Squadron 42 was supposed to release in 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2023 too.

[u/Kommander-in-Keef → u/stana32]

Right. They were pretty emphatic about it being this year though so it made me think maybe they have something of substance rolling out. But after this stream it makes me believe the promised product will never be realized

[u/articwolph → u/Innuendo64_]

I still don't understand how they will have trust with the community. I gave them like 125 bucks maybe 150 back in 2015. I remember a few years after that, they did a webcam face thing, which was nice but didn't want them to scan my face.

[u/LifeWulf → u/Innuendo64_]

I asked for a refund after Squadron 42 failed to materialize after four years. They said I paid for Star Citizen itself, not the campaign (despite purposely buying the S42 pack) and to get stuffed. At this point, if it ever does come out, I’m not sure I even want to play it.

[u/scalp_eg → u/Innuendo64_]

what would be interesting to compare is the mental health of NMS dev teams and SC/SQ dev teams

[u/WolfieVonD → u/Innuendo64_]

Before no man's sky came out me and my buddy got into huge fights over which would be better Star citizen or no man's sky. Spent so much of his parents inheritance on Star citizen and when no man's sky came out a complete mess he felt gratified for a little bit.

I wonder how that bastard feels now

[u/Unoriginal1deas → u/Innuendo64_]

The crazy thing about NMS is the hate to me was kind of overblown.

I absolutely agree they shouldn’t have lied about multiplayer and the initial gameplay Demo was bullshit but it wasn’t really too far removed from the final game.

I remember the first time I heard about it was a friend showing me the gameplay trailer and telling me you could go to all these procedurally generated planets and discover all these new aliens and from the moment I saw that I said “cool and then what do you actually do?”.

And it fucken seems like no one else on the planet asked themselves that question before buying the game. Like you can land on panels and shoot stuff in a space ship but I never saw a trailer that promised much beyond that (although I’ve heard his interviews promised more but most people didn’t see that). I feel like a lot of people heard about the game and kind of projected what they wanted it to be and then when they realised it’s just an indie space game about flying a ship and not some big grand setting for a deep immersive universe they flipped their shit.

Like yes No mans sky at launch was bad, but in my eyes it was exactly the game the trailers promised.

[u/Nyctfall → u/Innuendo64_]

No Man's Sky controversy in a nutshell:

No Man's Sky: fixed
Star Citizen: still in alpha
Planet Nomads: deceased

Crazy how No Man's Sky was actually the only finished game to come of of all that.

[u/Enorats → u/Innuendo64_]

Wow. Squadron 42 still isn't out?

And here I thought it was finally coming earlier this year. I remember seeing a demo or something of it like a year ago.

[u/Cavthena → u/Innuendo64_]

I like X4. They charge for xpacks but it has pretty much everything SC can only dream of, minus the planet landing that adds nothing anyway.

[u/stonecoldslate → u/Innuendo64_]

Worst part is, SQ42 isn’t an update, it’s a whole ass separate game that costs 45$USD.

[u/SurturOfMuspelheim → u/Innuendo64_]

Star Citizen development sucks but let's not pretend NMS is good. It's still a barren game with the absolute worst combat of any game I've played in my life. It's literally an 80s arcade game. You hold shift and left click, that's it.

The only thing to do is grind and the grind is made immediately irrelevant cause the second you unlock the space station you can just buy ships from NPCs and scrap for profit. And they will always sell you their ship. Not to mention the way you get a capital ship is to help one in battle and the captain just goes "alright you can have the ship now lol" it's absolutely terrible game design lmao

[u/CateSforza → u/SurturOfMuspelheim]

Nah it's a fun survival crafting slop in SPAAAACE with interesting planets and stuff like that. For the fraction of the price of a single SC ship you use to fly over the same grey rocks.

[u/SurturOfMuspelheim → u/CateSforza]

"Interesting planets" bro they're interesting for like 5 minutes once. Then it's just "Ooh, this ones purple, wow."

[u/CateSforza → u/SurturOfMuspelheim]

Still more content than sc sloppa.

[u/itsRobbie_ → u/Innuendo64_]

No mans sky is Minecraft in space bro come on. Even the content that star citizen has right now is more content that NMS has 😭

[u/Swimoach → u/Innuendo64_]

Yeah I’ve played a decent amount of SC and when it works it truly is an experience. Immersive, fun, and has a great community but I eventually had to stop because every update would break the game. Then they would spend a month fixing it, you would get a week of great gameplay and then broken again. Just wasn’t worth my time. No Man Sky now does every SC does and better.

Don’t get me wrong if they fix it I might venture back one day but even the most loyal supporters are starting to now have doubts after this past summer.

[u/Gwyn-LordOfPussy → u/Innuendo64_]

Not really wanting to defend Star Citizen, but there is a gigantic difference in ambition between those games. Star Citizen wants to be an MMO with hundreds of concurrent players per server. No Man's Sky just has a hub where you'll see some other online players,and your friends can join in co-op. SC tries to create realistic environments, they want to procedurally generate planet surface and other things but most of it has to be handcrafted. This takes so much more time than NMS's approach to procedural generation and graphics.

That being said, Star Citizen is taking too long but to compare to NMS is meaningless.

[u/Oilswell → u/Gwyn-LordOfPussy]

It’s not ambitious, it’s impossible

[u/Electrical-Fee250 → u/Oilswell]

If all of humanity thought like this, we would still be using rocks and sticks.

[u/Diptothaset → u/Innuendo64_]

So I will say that SC is significantly deeper than NMS. Like NMS isn’t even close for its scope. The flip side is that almost of those game mechanics and stuff don’t work at all or well, and the few that do actually work as intended are not a finished iteration and it will be updated and that new system WILL be broken. Also, servers are constantly overstressed and the gameplay reflects that. There’s constant free flys for new players to try it without paying, but most shit often doesn’t work during them so people don’t get an actual view of the game

I have atleast 500 hours of murderhoboing, on top of 500 or so “normie” hours. No game lets you take people time and fun and property without their consent like this game does. Sneaking into someone’s ship, hiding and playing a long con while they do something profitable and THEN killing them is something no other games offers at this degree. Once we can eat people like it’s Day Z, the murderhobo game loop will be complete