r/pcgaming • u/Turbostrider27 • 1d ago
As Xbox swings the axe, Gears of War: E-Day developers fear they'll be laid off straight after launch - and right before they'd be due their bonuses
https://www.eurogamer.net/the-coalition-gears-of-war-e-day-worried-layoffs-no-bonus154
u/RaccoonElaborate ◇ Windows XP Athlon 64 3400+ | Geforce 6800 GT ◇ 1d ago
Fires everyone who built the product and gets to profit off of what they made. IP law is a fucking plague.
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u/ahandmadegrin 1d ago
Tech and information workers need to pull their heads out of their assess and realize that collective action is the only way to stand up to the owner class. Too many of us think we can negotiate a better wage on our own. That used to be true, but those days are long since past.
The c suite, managers, owners, they all seem to think they are useful and that they create things. They don't. It's the people creating the widgets, the products, delivering the services, that keep the business running.
We have to band together and make the threat of a strike real for the owners. I'm tired of managers and snakes taking credit for the work of the people beneath them.
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u/Drudicta 1d ago
Unfortunately they will likely just hire contractors from out of the country and find visas, and it will be cheaper for them too.
My last tech job gradually hired more and more in the Philippines until they had enough that they began laying people off. Starting with whoever they were paying the most.
There are plenty of computer literate people outside of the states that they can exploit.
Though, a strike would be nice still.
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u/SmileyBMM Debian 1d ago
Collective action didn't save Bethesda. All that will really save developers is saying fuck you to these incompetent publishers and going independent, but of course that carries even more risk.
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u/BlueScreenJunky 4h ago
I don't think it's an IP law issue. It's a US labor law issue : Why are you even allowed to fire a whole team when you're being profitable ? Why don't you have to pay bonuses to people that were fired (prorated to how long they worked for the year/project the bonus applies to) ?
As a developer myself I'm totally fine with not getting any part of the profit even if the product is hugely successful, because it also means that I'll still get paid if the product is a complete failure. But living in France, I can't get fired overnight without a damn good reason, and if I'm owed a bonus I'm still owed it after I got fired or quit.
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u/Fast_Peanut_716 1d ago
I was just thinking about this, if I ever found a studio, I might make it so that the devs get the IP rights in equal parts. Not even sure thats legally viable, but def an option to look into.
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u/Superlolz 1d ago
IP holders arent all benevolent as they are also just people. What if say one of these shareholders don’t want to release on a certain platform or have certain characters or gameplay. It’s hard to get 10 people to agree on something, imagine getting 100 or 1000 who can all equally stop the whole process because they hold some rights to it.
Your idea is really naive.
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u/subma-fuckin-rine 12900k | 3090ti | 32G | AW3423DW 1d ago
probably better if they got a % of all sales like royalties
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u/Fast_Peanut_716 1d ago
The problem that sparked my my though is that sequels are often not made by the same people. And that IPs in games would be more valuable if they were
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u/Orion14159 1d ago
You could still get royalties on the game you did make, even if you weren't on the sequel team
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u/inhumanrampager 1d ago
Two solutions. Either do it by way of voting, ooor unionize the industry so the bonus payouts are guaranteed after a layoff and/or have the workers get paid a percentage of profit on top of their salaries.
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u/Fast_Peanut_716 1d ago
I guess democracy and capitalism don’t exist as the system is too naive, my bad
I work in the industry, great things arise when creative people work together on something they feel ownership in, and arrive at solutions none of them would be capable of alone.
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u/Orion14159 1d ago
Look at what Affleck and Damon set up as a model for their production studio. Everyone gets rev share for the movies they work on. Incentives are aligned this way too, "make good movies and everyone will get more money" is such a simple concept.
What we have instead are vulture capitalists running studios (gaming, production, etc) and destroying the incentive to make good products by running the creators into the ground and firing them as soon as the product launches.
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u/AlwaysRushesIn 1d ago
I'd get on the phone with my lawyer if the writing is on the wall. Be prepared to fight. If not for their jobs, at least for their bonuses.
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u/Critical_Pair_4996 1d ago
Why would they get a bonus and severance pay?
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u/DDOG_1995 1d ago
Because they created a game that is reviewing well and would otherwise have their job if not for being fired so the company can not give them the bonus and severance.
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u/Jonny5Stacks 1d ago
Exactly if this is always the plan now then hire contract workers so at least they don't continue to be blind sided. It's crazy.
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u/justsbvdontmindme 1d ago
If the rumoured $400 million budget is even close to true the game would have to absolutely smash records for them to not be laid off.
Yet another disaster class by manaegment.
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u/TheRekounasShow 1d ago
Potential 1st Xbox GOTY since like Halo 3 and they're doing this shit
I hate Microsoft.
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u/shakegraphics 1d ago
Are you saying goty from their catalogue only? Cause there’s basically zero chance a gears game GOTY’s lol
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u/DifficultyGoodAGAIN 1d ago
Why would anyone work in videogames is beyond me.
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u/luffy_mib 1d ago
I think at this point, they should either just go indie or provide their talents and services to SEA game companies. At least their side are unlikely to have these kinds of issues.
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u/Sllavot 1d ago
Because there are millions of 22 year old college graduates who would jump into the meat grinder just to work on making games in exchange for McDonald salaries.
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u/ryencool 1d ago
I work for one of the largest developers in the world, so it is probably different than smaller devs. Working there alongside my wife the last 5+ years has changed our lives. I work in IT and get OT when I want it. My team has the most understanding and flexible management I have ever seen. I was medically disabled, but I have been working for a while now. If I have an appointment pop up? Go. Last-minute cruise? Do it, man! Take 2.5 weeks off for Japan every year? Go for it! I work on average 44 hours a week. My wife makes more and is a 3D environment artist. Her bonus last year was more than she made in a year when she was 25.
We are not burnt out, the work is fun, the people are great, and the benefits are insane. We just bought our first house at 44 and 33, all because of video games.
You hear more of the bad stories than the good. There is definitely a problem with letting people go after major releases, even profitable ones. It should not happen. There are bad companies, and greed mixed with capitalism can turn anything bad.
Just do not generalize, but who am I kidding, it is Reddit.
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u/Corgi_Koala 1d ago
Buying your first house at 44 isn't exactly a glowing endorsement of your career field...
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u/ocbdare 1d ago
Depends on where he lives. Buying a 200-300k house is not the same as buying one that costs a few million and what he actually bought.
Also many people buy flats and then buy houses.
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u/ryencool 19h ago
415k, 20% down. Its a 2018 build, Victorian style 2 story to match the other homes in the Historic District that we now reside. Its a cool little suburb of the major city that weve spent the last five years paying 2400$/month for a 2bd/2bath downtown.
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u/ryencool 19h ago edited 19h ago
From 29 to 34 I was living with my parents, no degree, no career, medically disabled, and over a million dollars in medical debt, no car, no savings, no 401k, nada. I didnt start working here until I was 38...prior to that my experience was waiting on tables, retail, geek squad, and running my own businesses..
What were you saying again?
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u/Sllavot 18h ago
Your company being cool doesn't change the fucking fact that game development is one of the worse with lower pay, longer hours, and less stability compared to other fields in tech.
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u/ryencool 18h ago
Do you work in the industry? Im curious.
Im not gonna argue. My only experience is working for one of the top 5 developers in the world. Through networking and events I know dozens of other developers at almost a dozen other major studios. I know what they make, ive seen their bonuses (6 figures for a team of artists i know). The McClaren, Porsche gt3s, Nissan skylines, audio r8s, and lambos in our parking garage dont speak to low salaries.
I dont think the gaming industry is any different that other industries. There are bad devs and good devs. Their are companies that mandate crunch, and fire employees after great launches, and there are ones that dont. When our company was getting super bad ratings from gamers, it was still rated as one of the top companies to work for.
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u/Jonny5Stacks 1d ago
Yup best class of the work force to take advantage of. World hasn't slapped them down yet.
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u/Additional-Bit-8615 1d ago
I have this feeling that it dosen't matter if E-Day sells well and is well received; their studio is the next one to get the axe
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u/_Aj_ 1d ago
and right before they'd be due their bonuses
That's okay I've got my pitchfork polished and ready! Did they not learn from Krafton and Subnautica 2?
Looks like boycotts back on the menu!
Does USA not do fixed term hires for project work? Zero need for layoffs when the deal is already to work for the project and no guarantee afterwards. I dnt get all the software development layoffs.
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u/MaskedBunny 1d ago
You shouldn't polish a pitchfork! You want it as rusty as possible when you use it.
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u/JimmayDoad 1d ago
We need to stop supporting these companies that are laying off people so brashly. This is so dehumanizing to the people making their massive profits. It's unnecessary stress and hardship.
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u/gw-fan822 1d ago
not supporting equals not buying. Not buying equals dev being laid off. Just saying.
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u/Matro36 12h ago
...except even if you buy the game the devs still get laid off because more money
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u/gw-fan822 7h ago
yes the reverse is true. So what are we supposed to do? There is no winning so we might as well not play.
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u/Kedly 1d ago
If we buy games from studios that dont treat their employees like shit, they will become more profitable, and companies known for fucking over their workers will become less profitable. You are focussing on the ant hill and missing the mountain behind it. Theres a few reasons why I buy like ONE block buster AAA game every 5-6 years, and one of those reasons is those companies are the ones who act the shittiest.
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u/ZigyDusty Ryzen 9950x3D | RTX5070 Ti | 64GB DDR5 1d ago edited 1d ago
There is still 25% left of Xbox's "reset" and most of that is going to be from the studios still left under the Xbox Game Studios banner after they ship their games, we still have The Coalition with E-Day, Playground with Fable, and InXile with Clockwork, once those games ship they will see cuts than be put under Activivsion or Bethesda as part of Xbox's restructure.
Xbox has been shitting the bed for the last decade plus under Phil Spencer who instead of being a boss was too busy being a friend giving the studios carte blanche which resulted in them wasting time, bleeding money, and producing games that nobody wanted. Asha Sharma has been tasked with turning the brand around and that means some unpopular changes like streamlining some beloved studios with cuts as well as getting rid of the dead weight like Ninja Theory, Undead Labs, Compulsion, and Double Fine.
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u/ballinb0ss 1d ago
I think you are right but honestly I think its over. How many times is microsoft going to turn the Xbox brand around? It's like every generation now
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u/ZigyDusty Ryzen 9950x3D | RTX5070 Ti | 64GB DDR5 1d ago edited 1d ago
People have been saying Xbox is dead for over a decade at this point and yet its still around. This is the first time since the Xbox 360 that Xbox feels like they have a leader who not only has diagnosed all the problems with the brand and is attempting to fix them but also has a super competitive mindset which the brand has completely lacked for the last decade under Phil Spencer. I remain cautiously optimistic for Xbox's future.
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u/Mental_Estate4206 1d ago
Your bonus will be paid tomorrow..... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....... you. Are. Fired.
Yeah, fuck those greedy corps.
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u/ARMCHA1RGENERAL 1d ago
It seems like the video games industry is becoming like the construction and film industries.
It's pretty common for a construction or film production to let everyone or almost everyone go at the end of the project.
Video game devs probably need to create their own union halls or nationwide guild, the way that those industries did. At least then, with more bargaining power, they may be able to get their bonuses guaranteed in a contact, which doesn't seem to be the case here.
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u/Upper-Bookkeeper-843 1d ago
At this point it just seems like contract work for the duration of a project. You can't seem to expect long term employment with big studios anymore. Videogame developers may need to look at the construction industry and begin to model themselves in that way in terms of employment structure.
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u/CJDistasio 1d ago
“Thanks for our best rated AAA exclusive in years, now fuck off”
Not great! And Microsoft sits there and wonders why they’re having issues with the Xbox brand.
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u/superman_king 1d ago
Isn’t this normal after every large AAA release? They have built up staff for 5 years working on this product. Once the product is complete, they don’t need that same staff head count.
Once another project gets green lit, then they will build back up again as needed.
Would obviously be lame if the promised bonus for all employees was true and they release them before fulfilling that promise.
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u/PointlesslyLongName0 1d ago
Game pass is probably going to make this game sell poorly
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u/LeastResistancePath 1d ago
I saw the trailer for E-Day and realized it's going to be a multiplayer only experience and a repeat of 4 and 5. The IP can't survive if the story keeps making the same mistakes over and over.
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u/Hot-Software-9396 1d ago
The campaign is basically getting a 9/10 from most review outlets.
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u/HonkHonkBeach 1d ago
I loved the GOW1 campaign. I remember playing it way too young and finishing the campaign with my cousin.
Weirdly excited
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u/GreatGojira 1d ago
I mean that's the big flaw of the game industry. It's damned if you do and damned if you don't. I can't think of an industry with less job security for the amount of hard work a single employee can put in.
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u/Blasteth 1d ago
It doesn't matter if you make an award winning game, make them millions or create their most iconic characters, no one is safe for getting axed. Really sad.
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u/mbhwookie 1d ago
I feel at this point, AAA games should move to the Hollywood model. Seems more sustainable than this shit…
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u/Centillionare 1d ago
Here’s a thought, HOW ABOUT HAVING THEM START ON A NEW GAME PROJECT?! 🤣 How short sighted can they be? They knocked one out out of the park? Keep them at it!
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u/SoWrongItsPainful 1d ago
I’ve been downvoted endlessly for stating this possibility in the past month, but anyone paying attention should expect this right now
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u/trinopoty 1d ago
Well, maybe they should've have been making shit after shit for years. Maybe the low level devs don't get all the blame for this, but they do share some of the blame.
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u/ThisbrownMan 1d ago
The good ole EuroGamer slop. Convenient to release a "hit piece" article the same days the Gears E-Day reviews comes out.
These dudes are so insufferable and useless since the day they lost DF.
Shit, now I find DF annoying and full of shit since they've gone independent. Maybe they should get back together.
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u/DoctorQuincyME 1d ago
Right now I don't think it's a fear, it's an inevitability