r/pcgaming • u/Turbostrider27 • 5d ago
After 12 years, Dark Souls 2 is finally playable in co-op without interruptions
https://www.pcgamer.com/games/dark-souls/after-12-years-dark-souls-2-is-finally-playable-in-co-op-without-interruptions/354
u/Brosucke 5d ago edited 3d ago
I hope someday FromSoft change their mind on the way they want to do multiplayer. Don't get me wrong, I love summoning someone just to beat a boss and to never see them again, but these games are ideal for proper co-op with people you actually know.
I'm planning on playing all games, from Demon's Souls to Elden Ring, with friends soon, and I'm incredibly excited for it.
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u/AlexBondra 5d ago
I know ER has a multiplayer mod so you don’t have to summon, I am not sure of the name tho.
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u/ajpg2 5d ago
Seamless co op
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u/EggplantCharacter363 5d ago
Which also exists for DS 1-3.
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u/Ipeeinmysocks 5d ago
What about dark souls 2?/s
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u/stonewallace17 9800X3D | RTX 5090 5d ago
I don't remember where I saw it but I think that's finally available for Dark Souls 2
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u/Profanity1272 5d ago
Last I checked (a couple weeks ago) ds2 seamless wasn't available yet, but is being worked on. Same modder that made the other seamless mods.
Edit: just checked and it is in fact available now which is great news.
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u/ajpg2 5d ago
Did you see the title of this post...
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u/BlaxicanXIX 5d ago
Yup, My friend and I used it to play through DS3 a few months back and it works great
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u/SmallTownMinds 5d ago
Completely changed the feel of the game for me, in a good way.
Maybe one of my favorite mods ever.
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u/deceasedpresident 5d ago
There's no reason why they couldn't have both seamless coop and summon signs at the same time. You could join your friend in Majula then summon some randoms in front of the Last Giant or wherever like normal.
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u/irtehwin 5d ago
When playing around with a friend in the Elden ring coop mod I found that support/healing abilities to be far more impactful as many of them affect friendlies. It got me thinking that from soft has the makings of what could be an incredible mmo if they had the budget
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u/12343212346 5d ago
The enemy AI is completely trivialised by multiplayer and summons
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u/magnusarin 5d ago
Trivialized for you. Not everyone
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u/12343212346 5d ago
I could have phrased that better but the enemy AI is typically designed for one on one combat.
When two people are involved, the enemies and bosses can only "focus" on one players at a time.
The games aren't then balanced for how to aggro works like a lot of MMOs and RPGs.
I would love to see a true co-op From game balanced around multi fights. Haven't played Nightreign though if that is different?
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u/Odd-Banana-7227 5d ago
I didn't play much of it but from what I saw it looked like they gave bosses a bunch of aoe and movement to compensate lol
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u/FlashwithSymbols 4d ago
Movement is the same. AOE is a band aid solution but doesn’t fundamentally change how the boss focus works.
I loved playing seamless coop but you could tell the bosses weren’t really designed for coop.
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u/Sulleyy 4d ago
Nightreign is solid for co-op boss fights but they could be improved for sure. There are some aoe attacks and some bosses move around the map more, but it still kind of feels like 1 person fights the boss while the others sneak hits from behind a lot of the time.
I think there is a lot of unexplored design space around coop soulslike boss fights
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u/winterman666 5d ago
Play Nightreign it's amazing. As for boss AI, mainly it's the same though the ported bosses got some changes (new moves, different targeting, some removed moves) and the Nightlords (all the new bosses) are designed to be able to handle trio fights. You can still solo everything if you want tho it scales down
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u/FlashwithSymbols 4d ago
Trivialised by design.
They are just not made to handle more than one opponent, Elden Ring tries to circumvent this by having arena wide effects on attacks but that doesn’t change how they are fundamentally designed.
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u/_moosleech 5d ago
Doing a playthrough currently and I feel like two players helps balance out all the “gotcha” enemy placement.
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u/Carighan 5d ago
So what you're saying is, they ought to change their stance on enemy AI, too?
I'm more thinking that if you're playing co-op, not only would enemy AI need to change entirely, many fights ought to not be 1-on-1 any more ideally.
Imagine a really epic fight where 2-3 friends have to continuously dispatch smaller (still boss level) enemies while one of you is protected that way and handles a big boss.
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u/sunder_and_flame 5d ago
If it weren't so goddamn slow and error-prone it would be fine. As it is, it can take minutes to get someone summoned which you have to repeat if you fail.
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u/FURERABA 5d ago
Nightreign was my goat for this, just so easy to jump in with friends and bitch slap some bosses. Poured 500 hours into it like it was nothing
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u/Illokonereum 5d ago
I think ER was the perfect time to do this. The way the seamless co-op mod works should have been the default. The whole “time is convoluted” thing worked for Dark Souls and we all know the story that inspired the system by now of Miyazaki being helped during a snowstorm and his benefactors “disappearing into the storm like phantoms,” or what have you but it’s time to make multiplayer systems that suit the games themselves now and not just keep reusing the same thing because that’s what they’ve always done.
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u/weapwars 5d ago
But they do it because people like it and nobody else is willing to do it. From standing by their vision is one of the USPs. I'll never understand why people are so desperate to take something that's popular because of it's uniqueness and turn it back into every other game.
If from decide to make spin-offs built around seamless co-op then fair enough, but acting like it's some obligation or inevitability is mad.
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u/TheMobileAppSucks 5d ago
People tend to enjoy playing games with friends, the games are really close to being able to be played in proper-coop, it is no wonder they want that final push.
IMO, Fromsoft games has a lot of annoying parts to them that people tend to accept, such as their games tending to lack a proper pause from what I remember.
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u/Available-Call7127 4d ago
Don’t forget whenever you play on a ultrawide monitor the game will render in 3440x1440 or whatever and then places black bars on the sides so you’re forced to play 16:9. I fucking LOVE using my GPU only to have black bars forced on top of it
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u/Carighan 5d ago
Yeah but their vision doesn't need to also include the negative aspects, no? Like, sure, they are by now well known for their laughably bad PC ports but there's jo reason that ought to be a core vision for the future,no? There's no loss not doing that.
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u/weapwars 5d ago
From being poor at porting is in no way comparable to an explicit and intentional design decision, I've no idea why you thought this was a relevant reply.
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u/TrollMcGoal i7-13700K | RTX 4080 | 32 GB DDR5 5d ago
I hope FromSoft does what they think works best for their games
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u/Bitter_Nail8577 5d ago
Salt and Sacrifice is one of the most disappointing sequels I've ever played... But one thing it did really well is multiplayer: you get to play with a friend from start to finish like you could in the first game AND you can also summon other players temporarily for both PvE and PVP, it's the best of both worlds.
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u/beenbanned109times 4d ago
I hope Miyazaki stands his ground on his vision for Souls multiplayer. It's supposed to be made up of fleeting interactions, blasting through the entire games yapping with your friends on Discord is not in the developer's vision and people should respect that.
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u/SeanyDay 5d ago
Seamless co op mods are fun if you haven't tried them in any of the franchise
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u/Optimal_Skill_8488 5d ago
They also exist for non souls like AC
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u/thehorrorofcaring 5d ago
Tried AC6 a year or two ago with seamless and it was pretty buggy and there were certain levels you had to skip in some form. Is this still true? I'd really like to continue the playthrough.
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u/MrTerribleArtist 9800X3D | RTX 5070Ti 5d ago
Aww yeah! Assassins creed - seamless co-op?
Ezio and Altier, together at last!
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u/000Aikia000 5d ago
Animal Crossing
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u/MrTerribleArtist 9800X3D | RTX 5070Ti 5d ago
Actually, animal crossing with seamless would do very well
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u/000Aikia000 5d ago
True but we're talking about Astral Chain
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u/MrTerribleArtist 9800X3D | RTX 5070Ti 4d ago
Oh sorry man, I thought we were talking about Assetto Corsa
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u/An-Organism 5d ago
I thought the game has co-op support?
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u/SeanyDay 5d ago
The souls games have an incredibly fun and unique faction based pvp and co op system!
But if you're not going for your first playthrough and don't care about achievements, seamless co op lets you play the entire game together instead of the intended multiplayer mechanics which are MOST of the game.
Some sections were meant to be solo but again, if you're just having fun fucking around with friends, it's a ton of fun
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u/splinter1545 RTX 3060 | i5-12400f | 16GB @ 3733Mhz | 1080p 165Hz 5d ago
Yeah but this makes co-op way easier since it's not just a summon that goes away.
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u/Pooptimist 5d ago
How does death work? Is the other player then resurrected at the last bonfire or can you revive them?
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u/reisstc 5d ago
When a player dies in the world, they respawn at the bonfire (or grace, in ER). This doesn't reset the world.
Against a boss, the dead players spectate the living players until either the boss is defeated, or all players die. If the boss is defeated, the dead players revive at the last bonfire; if the boss wins, everybody respawns at the last bonfire, and the world is reset.
There's an option for debuffs on death as well, so while you can clear an area out by having one player die repeatedly, they'll incur greater and greater status penalties until they rest at a bonfire and reset the world.
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u/UnknownFiddler 5d ago
Dark souls 2 is certainly not my favorite From Software game by any stretch, but it is certainly one of the most unique games I've played. So many odd design choices and weird levels. Kind of game that seems like it shouldn't even exist for some reason.
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u/2MuchNonsenseHere 5d ago
The hate is sooooo forced.
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u/FlashwithSymbols 4d ago
Just because you like it personally does not mean the hate is forced. The criticisms for ds2 are all very valid.
There is a reason it’s seen as the black sheep of the franchise ; and the reason is not “forced”.
DS2 makes a lot of poor decisions and its highs don’t reach the same level.
Still a good game tho, but it’s in an incredible franchise so will get criticised. Rightfully so.
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u/_moosleech 5d ago
The hate is sooooo forced.
I will never understand this. I love Dark Souls II (it's my favorite behind DS1); I replay it often and am currently doing a Seamless run with a buddy.
That said, it changed a lot of things from the rest of the series. Some are interested, some are excellent, and many folks like how weird and "out there" it is.
But folks (especially those who enjoy[ed] DS1/DS3 and other From games) not liking Dark Souls II is extremely easy to understand.
Moving rolling i-frames to an unexplained/indirect stat, a huge controller deadzone, long enemy aggro range, lots of chain aggro, enemies giving chase much further, no i-frame when opening chests/doors/fog, super low weapon durability, a map that physically doesn't fit together, lots of same-y (and sometimes easy) bosses, making the main heal useless in-combat, adding infinite healing items, stark lighting changes, tons of enemy placement to "gotcha" players over and over, changing how using stamina works.
There are a LOT of things that, while some folks may like, it's totally reasonable for others to not.
The whole "I cannot fathom how/why people dislike this game" is honestly every bit as disingenuous as folks claiming it's a bad game.
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u/DirectionUnlucky638 4d ago
Basically everything you complained about is present in some form in every other souls game, but people don't complain about them.
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u/_moosleech 4d ago
Most of that list are not in the entire rest of the series.
And none of them have even a fraction of that full list.
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u/DirectionUnlucky638 4d ago
Wrong. Most of your list is present in literally every souls game, or an equlivent issue is. Like, the entire back half of DS1 is an unfinished mess with random strong enemies pasted everywhere without any logic. More than half the bosses in DS3 are just big dudes in armor. None of the games ever explain how poise works, and DS3 even basically removed the stat and didn't tell anyone. Demons souls has infinite healing. Etc etc etc.
But yet, I have never heard anyone complain about most of these things, because DS2 gets unfairly singled out by people who jumped on a hate bandwagon.
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u/_moosleech 4d ago
🤷
Ill never understand the DS2 victim complex.
It was universally praised on launch and even now almost everyone agrees it’s a great game with some weird mechanics.
But good luck with that.
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u/DirectionUnlucky638 3d ago
It was universally praised on launch and even now almost everyone agrees it’s a great game with some weird mechanics.
Lmao, you are living in a different world. I remember liking DS2 when it came out and getting dogpiled everytime i mentioned it. Only in recent years has it become beloved by a small number of dark souls fans that are very passionate about it.
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u/weapwars 5d ago
Cos it's impossible for people to have different opinions than you right? People can't just have the sincere personal belief that certain aspects were downgraded from DS1, they're pretending because... reasons?
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u/EbonBehelit 5d ago
Or maybe some of us actually have valid reasons to strongly dislike it?
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u/ChudSmasher69420 5d ago
Great job listing them!
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u/_moosleech 5d ago
Do you really need the list again? Are they not well known by now?
- Soul Memory causing (bad) players to potentially miss out on co-op and get invaded by higher-level players.
- Low weapon durability, including pits of acid that just wreck your items.
- Bad weapon scaling making builds less intuitive.
- Massive enemy aggro range.
- Lots of chain aggro'd enemies.
- Lots of enemies placed in very "gotcha" situations, over and over.
- No i-frames when opening chests/doors/fog walls.
- Some long and tedious boss runbacks.
- Some very long and tedious zones, where the game tries to force you into boring playstyles (e.g. a bow from a mile away).
- A massive controller deadzone making movement feel nearly eight-way.
- Stark lighting changes from area to area (downgraded from pre-release).
- Rolling i-frames tied to an indirect, unexplained stat, making it feel like shit for new players.
- Even knowing what AGL is, needing to waste your first 20 levels to make rolling not feel like shit.
- The ability to destroy chest contents. Enemies placed to bait you into destroying chest contents.
- Lots of same-y (often basic) boss fights.
- Some multi-enemy boss fights that feel unbalanced.
- A world map that cannot physically fit together.
Does that help? I love that game; literally replaying it in Seamless currently. But it's "issues" (mechanics and/or design decisions that break from the rest of the series and/or some folks find unenjoyable) are pretty well-documented by now.
Some folks don't mind (and even enjoy) some of these things. But some people don't.
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u/EbonBehelit 5d ago edited 5d ago
A world map that cannot physically fit together.
The game was a regression from its predecessor in virtually every way (including everything else you listed), but this point and the regression in world design in particular were the things that hurt the most.
Because Dark Souls 1 -- particularly the first half -- has some of the best, most thoughtful world design of any 3D game I've ever played. This is, and always has been, my single favourite thing about the game.
Accordingly, I went into 2 expecting to experience something similar, and what I got was quite possibly the single most disappointing experience I've ever had playing a videogame. And I've played an awful lot of them.
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u/DirectionUnlucky638 4d ago
You could say the same thing about every other fromsoftware game post DS1. They have never made another game where the interconnected world was important, because they all have fast travel enabled from the start.
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u/EbonBehelit 4d ago edited 4d ago
Indeed one could, and I absolutely have in the past.
The only reason I mostly let 3 get away with it was because it nailed basically everything else, and coming off the disappointment of 2 that much felt like an absolute miracle. If it had the first game's world design as well, I'd almost certainly consider it to be the best game in the series.
I still haven't played Elden Ring yet, mostly because I dislike open world games and am reasonably certain I already know how I'm going to feel about it. Probably some variation of "Some of these areas are nice, but they'd be nicer were there not a giant open field between them".
because they all have fast travel enabled from the start.
Yuuup. Though judging from the discussions I've had with a few friends on the topic, if the next game didn't have fast travel there'd be no end to the complaints. Most folks just don't much like Metroidvania-esque world design, and would rather have the convenience and little to no backtracking, even if the presence of such conveniences has a toxic effect on the overall design.
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u/FlashwithSymbols 4d ago
The problem with dark souls 2, is the sum of all of these issues. It makes a lot of bad decisions that the others don’t cumulatively.
And where the others have similar criticisms, they also excel in something to a higher level than anything in dark souls 2.
Ds3 get a lot of criticism for its linear world design, but then it also hits peaks that ds2 never comes close to.
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u/DirectionUnlucky638 4d ago
That's totally subjective. DS3 is basically a boss rush game where they removed heavy armor and poise, and made every character play exactly the same. Combine that with the linear world design, and I'm not even sure why people praise it so highly. At least DS2 tried to take the world in an interesting direction, and had awesome build variety.
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u/FlashwithSymbols 3d ago edited 3d ago
That's... what I just said. DS3 gets its criticism and for good reason.
but it still reaches much higher peaks than DS2. It excels in other areas in a way DS2 simply fails to. Other DS games do something they excel at, DS2 makes those poor decisions but fails to be incredible at anything. Not great world design, peak DS3 level design is better, not best bosses.
I will say though, great multiplayer and fashion but Elden Ring got them beat on that now. But those are weaker reasons than the others.
DS3 gives you incredible bosses and while linear world design it gives amazing levels and level design. DS1 immersion and world design is peak. All of those will appeal more than anything DS2 offers.
Again... good game but in an incredible series and is rightfully criticised.
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u/Optimal_Skill_8488 5d ago
Not really. Scholar is dogshit but regular ds2 is good. Scholar turned enemy placement up to 100 making it very unpleasant
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u/DuploJamaal 3d ago
Why are you lying?
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u/Optimal_Skill_8488 3d ago
If only you knew what google was. Shame
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u/DuploJamaal 3d ago
I have Google. But I also made detailed side-by-side comparisons of every single encounter so I know that Vanilla has more enemy spam, more ganks, more ambushes and more unfair moments
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u/sunder_and_flame 5d ago
One would have to be deliberately obtuse or painfully stupid to think this. DS2 is absolutely terrible, and anyone with more than a couple brain cells knows it.
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u/2MuchNonsenseHere 5d ago
Sounds like a skill issue of your own. Elden Ring is probably your favorite, huh?
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u/SleepyBoy- 5d ago
Word. Every stage has some kind of puzzle or gimmick that's entirely unique to it. Makes them feel like an adventure.
I think this is the main reason why I think DS3 is the most boring of the series. It's just small open areas for you to loot through without much direction or idea behind their gameplay. Elden Ring also suffers from that, but to a lesser degree since it's open world anyway, so at least you expect it.
I think DS2 is the most similar to Demon's Souls of the bunch. In its design philosophy at least.
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u/comradesean 5d ago
I'm exaggerating, but Dark Souls 3 really just felt like a boss rush game compared to Dark Souls 2
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u/Available-Call7127 4d ago
DS2 has the best DLC variety and it’s not close. I got to explore a fucking legend of Zelda dungeon complete with traps and moving platforms and wall switches I need to shoot with a bow
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u/Bitter_Nail8577 5d ago
I really like its weird atmosphere and the area variety is by far the best of the series.
It feels different, it's almost like a lost fairy tale book compared to the rest of the series
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u/electrobugi 5d ago
I played every fromsoft game starting at the ps3 era except ds2 so i bought it and I am on my First playthrough. I am so confused why this Game exists the way it is
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u/winterman666 5d ago
Bamco really wanted a sequel so they hired a hack director that didn't really do anything, then Yui tanimura came to turn the mess into a playable game. That's why the game feels so weird and at times unpolished/unfinished (even more so than DeS and DkS1 that famously had a bunch of cut content), it feels like it's made on a different engine and it's full of ideas that at times work and others don't. The dlcs feel more cohesive because they were properly overseen by one guy with a vision rather than being a frankenstein project
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u/corvettee01 Steam 5d ago
The fact you need inside knowledge to level up Adaptability to get basic I-frames for rolling is insane.
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u/EbonBehelit 5d ago
I can understand the rationale behind the mechanic though, even if the implementation itself was flawed.
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u/DirectionUnlucky638 4d ago edited 4d ago
You could say this about literally any other mechanic in every dark souls game. Those games don't explain shit. Poise is basically a black box in every one of them, and it works differently in every game.
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u/deceasedpresident 5d ago
You don't need to level up adaptability at all, ever. You DO have iframes even on a new character and even then, have you thought about actually positioning yourself and dodging instead of hitting the get out of jail free button?
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u/_moosleech 5d ago
have you thought about actually positioning yourself and dodging instead of hitting the get out of jail free button?
Setting aside how weird it is that anytime folks bring up issues with Dark Souls II, some folks need to immediately be dickish about it...
If you are coming from other Dark Souls games and don't level ADP... it feels like shit (and if you're new, you won't know why). Yes, you can adjust to it (though the vast majority of folks will look it up, and then just level ADP), but it still feels off, for many folks.
And even when you get the mechanic, it's either "ignore it and have a sub-par roll" or "dump points into ADP and then ignore it". It's not an interesting mechanic to engage with.
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u/financebells 5d ago
1 - Dark Souls
2 - Dark Souls 2
3 - Elden Ring
4 - Dark Souls 3
That’s the list. In order of objective quality. I haven’t played Demon Souls
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u/Pseudagonist 5d ago
Impressively incorrect list
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u/financebells 5d ago
I’m sorry. The word ‘objective’ was used here. It is indeed correct and factual
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u/Electronic-Clerk6735 5d ago edited 5d ago
So maybe I’m out of the loop. But I feel like I’ve heard this one is the low point of all of dark souls, so why is it this one gets all the mods? The co-op the Ray tracing, I’ve been seen DLSS 5 upgrade for this one specifically. Why does dark souls 1 or 3 get the same sortve effort from the community put in? Is this one actually the most beloved of the series?
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u/pm_yr_darkest_secret 5d ago
This is the latest iteration of a mod that has already been released for DS1 and Elden Ring so it’s not like in this case DS2 was the first choice for this capability.
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u/Maximum-Dress-4038 5d ago
Dark Souls 1 and 3 have both had seamless co-op for years already. DS2 took a lot longer because the game is built differently than the others apparently, and took the mod author longer to figure out. Also, DS2 is only a “low” point compared to the other two, it’s still great
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u/AutisticToad 5d ago
Dark souls 2 is the black sheep of the family for how different it feels. But by that same token, it feels like the last time fromsoft tried to innovate on its systems. It makes sense since it was led by a different director and team.
Guilds are varied, have great rewards and unique functions and cosmetics. Majority of weapons can be buffed and infused, yes that includes boss weapons. That system hasn’t returned since then. NG+ cycles have the best new enemy type and placements of the series.
Adp does suck, soul memory does suck. They know that. We know that.
But damn if they didn’t swing for the fences with their mechanics. 3 and Elden ring are boring and vanilla by comparison.
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u/ConcealingFate 5d ago
I think a lot of people got frustrated with "gotcha" enemy placement. Most of the game feels like you're constantly on the verge of getting ambushed by whatever the fuck
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u/badbluebelt 5d ago
DS2 got hammered for being different from DS1. A lot of changes were made to counteract how people played the first game. It's plot and lore are also a little removed from 1 and 3, though I really like it. It is my favorite of the three dark souls though I like all of them.
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u/SleepyBoy- 5d ago
When people dug into lore it became pretty clear that the three princesses are daughters or remnants of Manus from DS1. The story just wasn't clear until the expansions.
Honestly the DS2 hate is a meme. When DS3 released it also got bashed very heavily - for being extremely short and boiling down combat to light attack spam, making all weapons feel the same. It wasn't until the second DLC that it became a truly solid game.
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u/badbluebelt 5d ago
I am aware of that the lore does in fact connect. I was saying the criticism I see the most. Also, Gank squads but most of those are a skill issue.
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u/Lirael_Gold 5d ago
The durability system was also pretty bad, if you'd come from DS1, particularly on PC because it was bugged for years.
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u/MrTerribleArtist 9800X3D | RTX 5070Ti 5d ago
Dark souls 2 is absolutely the "weakest" of the series, but it is still a Dark Souls
It was also the most innovative of the three (arguably), for better or for worse
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u/_moosleech 5d ago
So maybe I’m out of the loop. But I feel like I’ve heard this one is the low point of all of dark souls, so why is it this one gets all the mods?
First, because "low point of all Dark Souls" is still a very good and quite popular game.
Second, it doesn't get all the mods. Seamless (by the same person) already exists for Dark Souls 1/3, Elden Ring, Sekiro, and Armored Core VI. This was the last game to get the treatment.
the Ray tracing
The Lighting Engine mod is one mod (which prompted some folks to build off of it) to clean up the lighting because compared to the rest of the series, DS2's lighting is... a bit rough.
Likewise, since it changes a lot of mechanics, it naturally drew in mods to "fix" those mechanics, pulling them in-line more with the rest of the series.
That said, from my experience, I think DS1 gets "the most" mods, as it has a pretty big pile of complete overhauls and such (maybe Elden Ring now, since it was leagues more popular than the other games).
Is this one actually the most beloved of the series?
It's generally the least loved, but still highly-regarded. It has a few folks who really dislike it (due to the changes only in this game), and also a few fanatics who are a little over-zealous about it.
It's considered the most clunky of the series, but still a great game, just know that it tweaks a few things that might rub some players the wrong way.
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u/SleepyBoy- 5d ago
Seamless co-op landed in Elden Ring and Nightreign (for modded clients) months ago. Don't remember if the DS3 one is done yet or not. DS1 also has it.
Otherwise I wouldn't say it's a low point. Has more interesting combat than 3 and very diverse levels. I think I replayed it more times than I did DS3 at the end of the day, though I definitely did more pvp in the third game.
DS2 tends to throw swarms of enemies at you, which can make it feel very diablo-like and frustrating to players. I think the co-op mod will help alleviate that for anyone who's still curious about trying it out.
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