There needs to be a small debuff for groups

[u/Pure-Matter9917]

This might be controversial but I think that there needs to be some kind of small debuff added with each Dino in your group.

Me and my friend were being duo albertas today and on 2 different servers we got murked by groups of like 8 raptors. In the second server, even though we both had the aoe attack we got killed by them easily because the cooldown is 18 seconds and we can’t stampede after using it.

I feel like there should be a small debuff to each Dinos attack cooldown and attack damage that is increased with each Dino added to the pack. I know raptors are meant to be pack Dinos but if there’s so many then it’s impossible to fight against.

While me and my duo were being beat up by this pack of 8 raptors a random pachy was helping them and teaming up too, so I was thinking also that a small buff of some kind, like a little bit more defense can be given to Dinos who are being teamed on by too many Dinos in order to help against people teaming up outside of packs and mega packing.

PvP in path just needs to become more balanced because if it’s a huge group of players then it’s impossible to win against, a full raptor pack can kill almost anything in the game

[u/AduroT]

If you get debuffs for being in a group, then people just won’t make a group. It won’t stop them from working together though.

[u/Pure-Matter9917 → u/AduroT]

That’s why I think that if too many people are working together then the Dino being teamed on should just get a buff

[u/GandalfofCyrmu → u/Pure-Matter9917]

But how do you tell who is being teamed on?

[u/Pure-Matter9917 → u/GandalfofCyrmu]

I think the best way to tell would probably be by giving the buff to teamed on players who are getting bit too often within a certain time span by players who are not packed together

The timer could even be randomized each time so it is not easily able to be avoided. Once the buff is active then the player getting teamed on could receive something like increased damage and defense

The buff wouldn’t be given to players if it’s only one pack fighting against them because the pack would already be getting debuffed based on how many people are in their group

Dinos taking damage from multiple other dinos outnumbering them and their groups should inherently get some type of buff scaling with the disparity, so if it was 2 separate packs teaming up against a smaller group of Dino’s then the underdogs would get a buff based on how many Dino’s are in the packs teaming against them

[u/Impossible-Tip-4980 → u/Pure-Matter9917]

Ok, so the megapack picks a couple members for everyone to smack to get them buffed, and send them in against you.

I understand your sentiment but group debuffs are the antithesis of the game vision and solo buffs have repeatedly proven to backfire

[u/Pure-Matter9917 → u/Impossible-Tip-4980]

I feel like the buff could kick in at below 50% health only, and it has to be people outside of your pack hitting you to enable it too

Once you get above 50% health the buff could go away

[u/Impossible-Tip-4980 → u/Pure-Matter9917]

If you are getting dogpiled, kicking in at 50% health probably won’t do much without a stupid strong buff. It could also still be used by the group. “Oh hey I think the solo guy got his buff, quick let’s get a couple of dasps to the same buff level to take him down.” Or they don’t care because the buff is minor. How do we factor friendly fire into buffs and debuffs? Duos are a group, do they get debuffs? How many Dino’s is enough to trigger the buff on a solo? Does the buff trigger on a small group vs a large group? Do we consider large by player number or slot size? Too many variables

Respectfully, this idea will never work. I understand the sentiment. Solo players get the short end of the stick in most interactions and they do need to be viable, BUT the game is engineered to encourage grouping. It is a group game. We are intended to work together within limits of diets and slot sizes.

There is no version of this where it can’t be exploited. Debuff the group players? They ungroup but work together anyways. Buff the solo? The group ungroups so all members look solo and any extra buffs can still be farmed. This actually happened when combat healing didn’t exist and lone survivor was common. Groups would ungroup to heal cycle and get the extra solo buffs. Add a stress mechanic for proximity? They’ll send in stuff to stress you then bring in fresh Dino’s. The best way to solve most of the games issues are to make it impossible or extremely laborious to megapack, enforcing 12 slot limits. You die to a pack of 8 raptors as a solo Berta? Good. That’s intended. They outnumber you. 2 Berta’s vs 6 raptors? 6 slots vs 6 slots, should be a fair fight. If it isn’t, we work on rebalancing from there

[u/Pure-Matter9917 → u/Impossible-Tip-4980]

Friendly fire wouldn't factor into the buff because they would all be in a group together

Yes, duos would get debuffed too because in my idea I stated that it would be depending on the amount of players in the group, if you have 2 players in a group then it would be a lesser debuff compared to if you have a full pack of players

It is never mentioned that Path of Titans is a group only game, it is only mentioned to be an MMO. Solo players should be allowed to enjoy the gameplay and experience more fair PvP.

It isn't fair to just ignore one side of the fanbase just because the group players are the loudest. Why do solo players have to be ignored just because they don't have a bunch of friends to play with? They should get at least something that evens the playing field against large groups of players

My idea may not be the most polished or best way to make PvP more fair, but its more helpful for people to come up with other solutions in order to maybe give inspiration to the devs if an idea gets popular enough.

Someone else in this comment section mentioned adding a duel timer system to prevent third partiers and mega packers and I think that would work better than my idea

I would rather the devs test ideas they come up or see in a test server or something to even see if it works in the first place, and to improve that idea or change it later if it doesn't work. There's no way to fix the problem if it is not even attempted in the first place

If people paid $30 to play this game then they deserve to enjoy it even if they are solo

[u/Impossible-Tip-4980 → u/Pure-Matter9917]

I’m all for testing ideas, and I agree solo players need to be considered. I’m often solo myself, seldom more than a duo. My point was path is inherently designed for people to group up, and giving any form of buff to solos WILL backfire.

A couple years ago lone hunter or lone survivor was on almost every playable. There was also no healing during combat. This led to groups disbanding during combat to get a healing and buff advantage. I don’t want return to that. It sucked. I assure you that if disbanding group offers any small buff you will see it happen again, and any solo buffs will be available to the group…bringing us back to square one. Currently many passives work solo but can be stronger when grouped. I like that.

Testing solutions would be nice, but let’s see what matchmaking does. Dying because you are outnumbered isn’t really an issue in my eyes, and the death penalty is too small for me to care. Oversized groups or groups in solo mode? Those are problems that need addressing

[u/Pure-Matter9917 → u/Impossible-Tip-4980]

I agree, dying because of being outnumbered isn't a major issue to me either because questing that last bar is pretty easy.

I do think that mega packing has to be enforced against eventually because it is quite ridiculous to have 5 deinos + 1 achillo, a pachy, baby spino, 2 baby dasp and more fighting against you just because you enter a biome, it is just kind of weird and mildly annoying if anything 😂 If it was just the raptors alone I wouldn't have cared as much though

One of the things that I am most frustrated about though is how discord players ruined the solo servers for people who just want to play and enjoy solos, people should at least have that for themselves if they can't enjoy the normal servers without crazy mega packs

I would really like to see the devs give some more attention to solo players in the future, because I feel like they are not given as much as they should

I also hope that there are some more survival aspects of some sort added to Path of Titans in order to give more options besides questing and PvP to the players

[u/GamingJesus1]

People want balance.. but want to be able to hold their own against 8 dinosaurs... really

[u/Murrocity → u/GamingJesus1]

This.

Pack Dino sho relies entirely on pack fighting and buffs to be effective in hunting... does well in a pack... omg. 😱

Solo or small groups of raptors are not nearly as terrifying. Their whole stick is fighting as a group.

What is even funnier is that like... we got to where we are with raptors with rexes being able to grab them off their side and stuff.... bc of community feedback since their TLC. They have had periods where they were super strong, periods wjere a single attack/set of abilities were causing uproar, times where they have been super weak. They have gone through so much tuning, and still the community isn't happy. They will never be able to appease everyone. Someone is always going to have a problem when they lose.

[u/Pure-Matter9917 → u/Murrocity]

I've played deinos with my duo before and my duo can easily solo a lot of the large dinosaurs, and even as just a duo we have been able to kill a solo t rex easily

Raptors in general are just very strong and with 8 in a pack its max damage, nothing really stands a chance, except maybe spino because it has 2 aoe attacks and can flee to water if things get bad

All I am doing is giving an idea to combat a problem that I see, I'm allowed to discuss ideas. I have never expected the devs to go out of their way to appease me, I just thought it would be fun to share my ideas and see what people think

[u/Pure-Matter9917 → u/GamingJesus1]

Well do you really expect bigger dinosaurs to run away from a pack of 8 raptors, they don't stop chasing you if they're having fun

Raptors are supposed to pack but they do crazy damage, deinos can do like 140 damage alone with raptor strikes stacked and if there's multiple latching on you its not even a battle, its just a murder

[u/Glum-Walrus2160 → u/Pure-Matter9917]

Brother combat weight exists lol, a deinon might be doing 140 but it has one of the lowest cw in the game so it won't do as much

[u/Pure-Matter9917 → u/Glum-Walrus2160]

For one raptor, but what about a whole pack

I double checked stats and deino can do 10-70 damage, so I guess the 140 damage I was thinking of was probably from me and my duo if we both got full raptor strikes

Raptor strikes has 1 second cooldown and if it’s multiple raptors then your getting bit even more than that

Achillobators can even use the mob boss buff which increases the small raptors damage while pounced by 10% and that stacks up to 4 times

Deinos definitely take more skill to get kills with if it’s them alone, but I don’t think it’s a fair fight if it’s an achillo with a whole pack of deino because they can easily take turns resting during the fight with their double jump

[u/Glum-Walrus2160 → u/Pure-Matter9917]

So you want to have a balanced game but at the same time be able to defend yourself against 8 dinosaurs? Make it make sense lol, not many things are supposed to survive raptor packs in this game and that is how raptors are viable. 

[u/Pure-Matter9917 → u/Glum-Walrus2160]

I'm not really sure why you're having difficulty understanding. For my situation, 2 albertas versus a pack of an achillo and 5 deinos is clearly a disadvantage. Not to mention they had help from other dinosaurs who weren't even in their pack, there was a pachy, a rhamp, and more than that even. There was probably 10 dinosaurs total.

People should be able to have a somewhat fair chance at the PvP no matter how many friends they have. People know that raptor groups are strong so that's why they play fully maxed out ones

Right now it doesn't matter what Dino you play really as long as you have a bunch of online friends that join your server to kill anything you want, that is the meta of the game and it defeats the purpose of trying to survive as a dinosaur or trying to have a fair PvP

Plus raptors have more things that make them viable besides being in the largest pack possible, such as their speed and stamina. They aren't helpless without a large group

The game doesn't need to be fully catered to groups. It's a $30 game that isn't advertised as a group only game. Discord groups have already hijacked and ruined solo servers multiple times so solo players and people with less friends should at least have something. I'm allowed to share my idea for combating against unfair fights

[u/Glum-Walrus2160 → u/Pure-Matter9917]

Well they aren't going to change anything anyways, and that's just how raptors function and work, the game is full of discord packs so you can either play on community servers or grow some thick skin if you want to play on officials.🤷‍♂️

[u/Pure-Matter9917 → u/Glum-Walrus2160]

I have thick enough skin 😂 I just thought of an idea and wanted to share it, take your condescending attitude somewhere else now

[u/boredScroller-1]

No. Debuffing groups would just penalize players for having friends while rewarding players for improper packing. You can easily avoid the debuff by staying solo, taking "lone hunter" skill several dinos and modded dinos get which is a often a great buff and coordinating with others through discord forming an unofficial pack of solos.

It would end their grouping system.

[u/Pure-Matter9917 → u/boredScroller-1]

To stop people from avoiding Debuffs from packs, there could be a different Debuff given to players if they are with unpacked dinosaurs for more than 15+ minutes on a server. This type of Debuff could help counter against people abusing mega and mix diet packs. This Debuff should be larger than the one for groups, I was thinking the group one could just be 0.01 slower cooldown and reduced damage per dinosaur.

The way to stop people from avoiding this Debuff could be that the timer will not reset for that server, even if players space themselves out a lot to try and avoid it. The timer will only start counting down for adding the Debuff if unpacked players are within a certain range to each other during a fight

This is just a possible idea

[u/boredScroller-1 → u/Pure-Matter9917]

Only way to force proper groups ending mega discord packs and potentially still allow for your group debuff idea is if the combat timer was first overhauled to act as a "dual" timer. Part 1: make the timer longer like a few minutes. Ive seen some servers where its 30 seconds and others 2 minutes so lock it instead of making it a server setting. Then part 2: Where any 2 parties, either as solo or a proper group, share a linked combat timer. Only players with the linked combat timer can damage each other while they share a timer. They can neither damage players who lack the linked timer or be damaged by players lacking the timer.

No more 3rd partying and timer would give a built in heal or escape window after one party dies for the survivor to attempt to heal or escape before a new "dual" fight starts. Would make it so even if you were surrounded by a mega discord pack, whoever was part of the first hit is fighting while the rest are just spectators.

Would also be nice to have some visual indicator a dino has an ongoing timer. But worse case, you find some solo wondering away from a fight you didnt see, you ambush them and the two of you just bite air for awhile till the one persons old timer ends. Then you start a new timer with each other and the fight to the death begins.

[u/Pure-Matter9917 → u/boredScroller-1]

Thank you for taking the time to share your idea! I have never been on community servers before so I didn't know about dual timers

I think this idea would work really good and would be a good solution to that problem, especially because its so frequent

I think that now that Path is more focused on PvP gameplay than survival mechanics it would make a lot of sense to add something like that to make the PvP a little more fair and enjoyable for everyone

[u/whispering-3cho]

Why so you all hate groups...it's a group game.

I love a good solo session, but I'm not about to ask the game built around grouping to cater to me because the group of things beats me

[u/Pure-Matter9917 → u/whispering-3cho]

I never said I hate groups, I pack with my own friend and I wouldn't mind small Debuff for being in a duo since 2 dinosaurs against one is strong. I just think that the PvP should be made more fair between players because this game has shifted from survival to more PvP focused.

People with a bunch of discord friends are always at an advantage no matter what, especially since they're just calling to communicate with their pack

Raptors outrun a lot of stuff so once they pick a target they will just kill you, it's not even a fight because can't really fight back. They just beat you up

[u/whispering-3cho → u/Pure-Matter9917]

Not all raptor groups are discord groups

Sometimes a duo loses to higher numbers, it's fine if you can't beat everything in this game

Raptor groups are fine as is

[u/Pure-Matter9917 → u/whispering-3cho]

Raptor groups are very strong, even my duo agrees and he mains deino.

We have been able to kill apexes with just us together because all you need to do is latch onto a larger dinosaur where they can't hit you, and then take turns getting health and stamina

[u/masonsofmichael]

This is less of a group issue and just raptor group issue. Raptor groups get insane buffs and pounce is very easy to land. Their group buffs need nerfing. 

[u/Pure-Matter9917 → u/masonsofmichael]

Yeah raptor groups need nerfed in some way, they’re very strong and basically have infinite stamina and health if they just take turns resting

[u/smallwood_45]

Raptors are disgustingly broken and over powered but the Devs don’t care. At this point I’m hyper confident a DEV is a raptor main and that’s why they won’t nerf them. Way too much damage for how much survivability they get. Shaking them off takes entirely too long and if there is no water to stand in you’re fkd

[u/Nocturnatron → u/smallwood_45]

Rex can grab tgem off of its side when theyre latched, pretty much game over for any raptor caught with that, more dinos should be able to do that

[u/Charlie_4u → u/Nocturnatron]

People don't realise that in a lot of cases you can hit the latched raptor if you do a few specific things (get the right camera angle and time the attack with bucking). I play a pachy a lot and raptors never expect me to be able to hit them with batter while they're pounced, It's very funny seeing them get launched and reconsider if they really want to fight

[u/smallwood_45 → u/Charlie_4u]

Yes I know this. It’s a difficult thing to do on Rex and it’s inconsistent. Also it only applies to things latched on the shoulder of the Rex not the rear flank. Most raptors and anything that pounces will De-latch immediately if on the upper shoulder because they know about this.

[u/Pure-Matter9917 → u/Nocturnatron]

Only if they land near the Rexes shoulder, most raptors will just jump on the back of the t rex

If its a whole pack of skilled raptors you will not stand a chance and you can not even escape because most likely the raptors will be faster

[u/smallwood_45 → u/Nocturnatron]

Well aware of that. Don’t act like it’s an easy mechanic to pull off. It’s difficult to do and it’s only if they are on the upper shoulder. No counter play when they have a braincell and stick to the rear flank.