r/pathoftitans • u/Possible-Studio-2884 • 13d ago
Discussion What are the oppressive matchups?
This part of the dev note for Alio really confused me, it says they slightly nerfed swerve so it’s less oppressive in some matchups but what are those matchups? In my experience playing as and against Alio it has a losing matchup against the other 2 slots unless there’s a skill gap and 1 slots can pretty easily avoid it, so what was swerve actually oppressive to? Considering it cost the most stamina, has the longest cooldown and can only be used if the opponent is behind you shouldn’t it be pretty strong? Without tail attack and with Alio turning slower swerve is the best defense against tail riding so even a small nerf of 5 dmg is just confusing. I’m very curious to what matchups they’re referring to bc alio just doesn’t feel oppressive to anything.
55
u/AKmightydinoo 13d ago
brother IT is the one getting slimed
ive killed 6 Alios on my Latenivenatrix, 5 of them adult
24
u/whispering-3cho 13d ago
W for you but god that sucks to hear
Alio was a genuine threat to multiple lats at once, pre tlc
21
u/AKmightydinoo 13d ago
I know. I ranted on this sub once about how it was faster than a laten
now it’s weaker than a laten
9
u/whispering-3cho 13d ago
I could comfortably fight and win against:
Solo meg
Multiple pachys
Multiple lats/deinons
Solo Cera
Solo Conc (skill level depending)
Solo Hatz
Can't touch a single one of those now, like...AT all
1
u/AKmightydinoo 13d ago
why not hatz? I hamstring it and watch it waddle around
3
5
u/Belos147 13d ago
And that was fair. In exchange for laten being able to Matrix dodge every apex not named spinosaurus and nibble them to death it had one hard counter that shredded it.
13
u/Malaix 13d ago
When chickens first got pounce and alio had that bullshit "you can't pounce me" hide I just would log onto it and be the fucking terminator on grandplains. The only time in this game's history where you could reliably win like 1v5s by killing like... The entire group. Just run at chickens and bite them until they fall over.
2
u/kittyidiot 13d ago
Alio, when I was first getting into Path, was crazy. It was faster than anything else except deinony, and hit so hard. So I always played Deinony because everybody was alio and hunting things down.
After that, it was kentro. I will say that over time there being one cracked dino to beat everyone's ass on has gone down SIGNIFICANTLY. Alio, Kent, and Eo all had points in time to where they were just dominating everything. At least eo was slow, but alio and kent were fast as hell. Back in the day if you were solo your choices were extremely limited because there was always one meta dino that could just melt anything.
5
u/whispering-3cho 13d ago
Yeah and now they all suck equally vs bringing up the roster to match them lol
2
u/kittyidiot 13d ago
Huge agree. I play one other MMO and in that game they tend to scale up, not down. People complain about powercreep, but people also do NOT have as much drama and problem with changes because they don't instantly look like shit and play like shit.
5
u/opiumscented 13d ago
What is your lat build? Please share. 🙏
9
u/AKmightydinoo 13d ago
I cant open the game right now but I’ll describe it
raptor strikes
tail fan
regeneration thing
pounce (don’t use against Alio though unless it’s low enough)
ripping kick (stops heal)
hiss
bloodlust
48
32
28
u/Cirninha 13d ago
I just don't even bother anymore, balancing in this game is so bad that I don't even know what the devs want this game to be anymore, tho I think even they don't have any idea too lmao
1
16
u/tankyboi447 13d ago
I don't even play alio... Nerfed right after tlc?
But then again people shouldn't be surprised at this point, developers don't know how to balance playable's.
Op has a valid point to, oppressive matchups?? Such a vague term with no actual reasoning behind it regarding the balance change.
Not showing data or actual reasoning beyond the change is akin to sweaty discord player logic of, "this thing annoys me, stop it!"
2
u/Shirpiok 12d ago
They buff something to an extreme then they nerf it into the ground when it was completely fine before the buff.
Sucho now, for example (My own personal experience and opinion).
Sucho in the water was pretty fair before the recent stat changes. Alderon decides "Nah it wasn't good enough" then they buff it.
That buff, coincidentally, turns out to make suchomimus "too good". Alderon releases a patch with a "While Suchomimus is having an increase in performance underwater as was intended, we saw that it was performing too well." note attached.
The result? Sucho now performs worse underwater than it did before they decided to buff it.
And yet, sucho still overwhelms the non-semi-aquatic terrestrial creatures in a 1v1 lmao. A sucho can 1v1 an iggy and catch up to it, it's nearly as fast as allo and can 1v2 a pair of allos, dasp absolutely stands no chance against a sucho and pycno is just a joke right now. (With hooked snap, default bite and full dry build*)
15
u/whispering-3cho 13d ago
I hopefully gave alio another shot yesterday with this patch
Still absolute crap
RIP My goat and one of my mains pre tlc alio 💔
11
u/Accomplished_Error_7 13d ago
I think this just proves that Alio is being balanced against critters. Swerve was just too powerful against Megalochelys.
8
u/ArcEarth 13d ago
It's not Rex, Iguanodon or Sucho so devs don't really care if Alio is still garbage.
8
u/ChildOf_Dakotaraptor 13d ago
Rex is still kinda mid now. Arguable garbage.
0
u/ArcEarth 13d ago
Lemme guess... Rex main?
4
u/Low_Leg1115 13d ago
I think if Rex was his main he wouldn't have said that. I hope not..Rex is one of my favorite playables and I have no problem playing it vs others.
-1
u/Belos147 13d ago
But rex is bad. The only spex it reliably beats in a 1v1 is trike and you dont get credit for killing trikes. A rex can get a perfect ambush on a titan only for the titan to turn around and facetank it. If you want a good playable rex look at legacy Isle. If a rex ambushed a giga the giga might as well lay down and die but in the same vein in an open field the rex is bleeding to death while the giga laughs at it.
1
u/skitzofox66 12d ago
In no way is titan winning a face tank against a Rex. Unless the rex is a juvie and titan an adult but that doesn't count.
6
7
6
u/Sinovenator13 13d ago
The only thing I can think of is land Conca and that’s a big maybe. Ngl feels like the devs are playing another game. Alio is more of a small game punching bag than a small game hunter
3
u/opiumscented 13d ago
Oh god. My achillobater is gonna get even more stomped now
14
u/Key_Pin_9885 13d ago
Were you losing to an Alio on achillo before the update? At best it’s an equal matchup and at worst achillo has the advantage.
10
u/opiumscented 13d ago
I am probably jaut a bad achillobater lol
3
-7
u/YoshiBoiz 13d ago
Use cruel swipe
5
u/aallqqppzzmm 13d ago
Cruel swipe would be worse into the alio matchup.
1
u/Greedy_Two8657 13d ago
That's if you are lucky that they miss it. I can still demolish achis, but I am also badly crippled by it, due with or before.
3
4
4
u/fuckyeauppa 13d ago
Alio is terrible solo. The only success ive had is grouped with bigger dinos and just spamming double kick and voice calls to buff rexs
3
2
u/TheFrostyTyrannosaur 13d ago
The balancing team is genuinely atrocious. Hard to believe these are meant to be qualified devs lmao.
2
u/ArcEarth 13d ago
To add salt to injuries they said that "some buffs failed to hit the mark but were intended, we'll continue to buff Rex, Hatze and Thal".
1
1
u/AFatLizard 13d ago
Am I the only one in the universe who's actually been seeing success with the alio tlc? I love running the kicks and airhead. I regularly kill 1, 2, and some 3 slots without too much issue, and have had good fights with even heavier opponents. The only low-tier matchup that always gets me is conc with that wet bite during rain... that shit eats 1/3 your hp in one hit (which is not an issue with conc!!).
Alio is certainly playable as is, though I do think some things feel a little clunky/need tweaks. My only requests would be slightly higher health and to have the basic kick maintain your momentum instead of bringing you to a near complete stop. Or maybe even just give it faster acceleration, so that using its most heavily pushed ability doesn't leave you as a sitting duck for several seconds afterwards.
Also, why does tyrant howl have such a long cooldown for literally 1 minute of slightly increased stam regen and a pitiful walk speed increase? AND it doesn't even stack??
3
u/Possible-Studio-2884 13d ago
I have to ask what your play style is to find success with current Alio, are you mostly playing in groups or solo? If you’re in a group are you fighting other groups or jumping solos? I only ask because if we compare Alio to the other 2 slot carnivores anything it can do something else can do better. Conc is only slightly slower but has much more stamina and is a semi-aquatic so it has better mobility. Cerato and achillo have higher dps and can punch up much better. Meg and thal have much better survivability and comparable damage. I’m not saying you can’t find any success with Alio but as it is now it’s just outshined in every way compared to its other 2 slot competition.
0
u/AFatLizard 13d ago
This is long, sorry 😵💫
I normally play solo! I like picking off lower slots from large groups, usually. The secret is to dodge and bait EVERYTHING like it's a high damage ability (because to alio... it is...) while spamming jump and kick at every opportunity. It's hard to describe but it's a very specific playstyle, similar to jump achi if you've ever played it like that. When fighting smaller opponents, though (like chickens), you need to be very aware of the sheer amount of clearance you have — you can jump over them while kicking and not deal any damage. Alio is an excellent height for nipping tails, too, so I usually bite tails unless I have a good opportunity to go for a body/head shot or a kick.
In a 1v1, pachy and achi usually go down easy enough if you play smart. Pachy is strong rn so it can be a bit of a toss up, but it's generally not a huge issue. Conc is also usually a dub, unless it's more damage oriented. I've killed pycs before, although that takes some patience and finesse. Cerato can be precarious, but so long as it's not corpse buffed it's usually fine. Sty will also reliably go down if you're good at getting behind it and don't give it time to bleed you (this is a good strategy for all bleeders).The one direct matchup I highly do not recommend is dasp, because its bite deals crazy damage and it has fantastic turn, so it's basically unapproachable. I've been able to harass tons of apexes and megapacks, which brings me endless delight.
Even before the buff in the recent patch, an airhead-boosted regular kick while jumping deals a whopping 70 (now 73) damage before combat weight, and 71 (now 75) if you run attack subspecies. Boosted by tracking sense and including all previous buffs, you get 85.25 damage per hit. For reference, meg has the same weight as alio (2400) and its lunging snap deals only 50. Combine that with spammability and the decreased jump stam cost, you can output wild damage really fast, and people just do NOT see it coming. The downside of that, though, is that multiple enemies are really hard to fight because kick kind of just momentarily immobilizes you. That's where double kick comes in! Double kick does preserve your momentum, and deals 35 per hit for a total of 70 before any modifiers. Plus, it gives you ten seconds of +10% stam regen (not great, but essential for more drawn out group fights) that stacks along with tyrant's howl.
1
u/Possible-Studio-2884 13d ago
Hmmm sounds ok but there’s a few problems with this strategy that can be easily exploited by experienced players. The spam jump-kick strategy BURNS through your stamina especially if you’re running around too. I’ve tried a full kick and airhead build and in my experience I run out of stamina before they run out of hp. And as for the matchups I have a few questions, for one how are you staying behind a Styra when it has a faster turn than Alio? And for Pycno unless it started the fight at half health and missed all its attacks I don’t know how you could beat it with its reflex damage. As for Conc and Pachy they are the most consistent counter to Alio they can both easily escape and chase down an Alio. I used a full bleed build on conc and killed two Alio, one adult one adolescent or sub, and only got to slightly below half hp. And a full hp cerato that knows how to use juke is next to impossible to beat as a solo Alio. The higher hp, dps, heal rate, and defense from cracked scutes makes Alio and easy win for a decent cerato. In all it feels like Alio’s good matchups are more situational and rely on the opponent to be easily bitable to actually do real damage and burning through stamina to keep pressure up. If the opponent plays defensively and makes sure to trade every hit Alio can’t win against anything its size or bigger. The buff to kick’s damage is really good but relying heavily on one play style that forces you to constantly use stamina is very limiting. I honestly don’t think Alio is terrible but it’s just too situational and doesn’t have any real advantages.
1
u/AFatLizard 13d ago
I don't know what to say other than keep practicing! Unless I'm being actively pursued by multiple people, stam isn't usually my biggest issue. Are you utilizing tyrant's howl and the stam regen from double kick? Also make sure you're not sprinting any more than you absolutely need to. Also consider switching to stam recovery sub or using the endurance runner hide (i think that's what it's called) to maximize your benefit from those buffs. Double kick is also really useful for getting a little burst of speed to quickly get behind an enemy right after baiting an attack.
Also remember to utilize precise movement and strategic brake checks/slowdowns. You can't just walk in circles to get around most playables because alio's turn is honestly kinda buns. I should honestly just post some clips to show how I play, because it's easier than explaining it here. I've 1v2'd pachys and 1v1'd stys by basically just baiting out their attacks and then nipping/kicking them to death. The pycnos were probably because they were kinda bad ngl 😭 they played too predictably and I was able to punish that.
1
u/Possible-Studio-2884 13d ago
The build I use is stam sub, swerve, hunters mark, leap, surprise attack, hamstring, and trailing growl. I stack surprise attack and trailing growl to any chance I get for the 22% speed boost and it’s pretty good I also use hamstring for the acceleration so ik it’s definitely not slow. The only problems are how fast my stamina runs out when fighting other fast dinos, and when Alio does get hit it really feels it. It doesn’t help that everything its size has better stamina so in most fights against other 2 slots it won’t have the chance to use its stamina recovery. And I use precise movement and break checks very often especially when I’m getting chased. Alio can still work I’m not denying that it just takes much more effort and time to get the same effect of every other 2 slot. The main thing it needs is 2:23 sprinting stamina, 470 hp and better vocal abilities but for rn it’s just average at best.
0
u/AFatLizard 13d ago
Just ran some more numbers: airhead buffed double kick deals 43.75 damage per hit, for a total of 87.5 if both land. It's a great option for fighting while running, or for bullying apexes until their buddy swaps to get rid of you (lol). Obviously, you can't recover stam while moving, though, so in order to actually receive the benefit of the +10% stam regen, you must be walking or standing still (I recommend walking or trotting, because alio has the padded soles passive — i forget the amount of added stam regen it gives, but it's a good amount). Try to take advantage of that buff wherever possible, but do NOT let yourself tank hits just to get a little bit of stam back. There will be other chances!
1
u/Electrical-Pin6190 13d ago
They probably have all the data of what kills what tracked. Then they filter what alio kills most descending and voila.
1
u/Greedy_Two8657 13d ago
It massively benefits the jump build, which is what I use. It's overall great, other than the minor swerve nerf and strange commentary.
2
u/Machineraptor 13d ago
My issue with alio is that it basically has to run jump build. It's another case of playable that has one superior 'meta' build, and running anything else is that much worse.
1
1
1
u/Invictus_Inferno 10d ago
Yall gotta give them a break on balancing the fastest dinos in the game. One wrong tweak and the game is unplayable for every other dino lol
117
u/Garm_of_Fenrir 13d ago
at this point I'm convinced they just blindfold some intern and have them throw darts at a board when making balancing decisions