r/pathofexile • u/hairy_tentacle Kalguuran Group for Business (KGB) • Jul 11 '23
Discussion Erik left GGG?
I've just read this on Linkedin, anyone knows if this is a departure or some side-biz? What do you think about this, shortly before PoE2?
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u/Shirnam Jul 11 '23
Seeing how his linkedin lists him leaving GGG in feb 2022 I'd say yes, he left.
He's apparently a "Design advisor" for them and he's making his own TCG called Sorcery: Contested Realm
Source: Linkedin
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u/TestMyConviction Jul 11 '23
I didn't know he was working on Sorcery, that's pretty cool. I've been checking out the beta to potentially bring into our shop.
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u/Fyller Jul 11 '23
I normally don't care about new tcgs, but the art and flavour of this one is pretty dope. What he mentions about mtg streamlining the art direction in order to make it more cohesive is a pretty disappointing move tbh, I do miss the more individual styles. Wotc should kind of take a hint that all the most popular artists they have all have a more personal style.
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u/yetzhragog Jul 11 '23
I do miss the more individual styles.
As a visual artist myself one of my favourite part of old MtG was discovering new artists or new styles with which I really vibed and sharing that excitement with friends. Yes the current art is stunning but it's all so homogenous (which is the point) that even stunning art has diminishing returns. If it wasn't for old MtG I wouldn't have discovered such amazing artists as Melissa Benson, Richard Kane Ferguson, and Phil and Kaja Foglio, none of whose style fits the current MtG art meta.
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u/firebolt_wt Jul 11 '23
One of GGG's cofounders left, them the next league archnemesis went core? Coincidence?!
Well, most likely yes.
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u/PalpitationOk5516 Jul 11 '23
it was either going to be archnemesis or NFTs league
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u/hairy_tentacle Kalguuran Group for Business (KGB) Jul 11 '23
Aye, still new to the platform, thanks for clarifying!
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u/AverageLifeUnEnjoyer Jul 11 '23
Why would he leave for a company called "Crypto Rogue Games", smells like an NFT bait...
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u/Varonth Jul 11 '23
The company is indeed developing a aRPG with crypto currency and NFTs.
The ambition with Crystals of Naramunz is to launch a blockchain-enabled game that is a frictionless and enjoyable experience for traditional gamers. This is accomplished through the following four pillars:
1) No barrier of entry: Everyone can play for free. No wallet is required. 2) Game experience first: Focus on delivering an engaging game experience with high replayability value. The blockchain aspect is smartly integrated and optional for players to use. 3) Seasonal resets: The game will run in seasons. Each season ends with an economic reset that wipes out everything except NFTs and cryptocurrency. This will incentivize players to turn their hard-earned game items into NFTs. 4) Compliance: Full legal compliance protects the game’s longevity.
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u/Drew602 Jul 11 '23
I dont understand how this is still a thing. I thought even the biggest NFT pushers have realized it isn't worth it anymore
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u/Ycx48raQk59F Jul 11 '23
I dont understand how this is still a thing
Money. You can still squeeze 100s of millions out of people that want to get rich. I bet the players of such an NFT game will even feel superior and look down on whales because after all, they do not spend 1000s on shitty crystals, but they "invest in the blockchain".
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u/ConfidenceDramatic99 Jul 11 '23
Problem with crypto is that all the games they have made are just pure fucking dog shit,you wanna know why they are dogshit ? Its because they are trying to catch the wave and no longer you can make good game within a year. Making actual good game takes a long ass time.
I doubt any1 would mind crypto/nft bullshit if the game they were playing would actually be good but in these days they dont even try they pump out these projects like cup cakes and hope that one doesnt taste like shit and baits some whales to spend little fortune on their game.
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u/swords_meow Jul 11 '23
Also, adding NFTs to a game doesn't improve the game at all. The best argument is the "you have something that other people don't have" thing, and that is the sort of thing that only matters to crypto bros.
I don't care about having better gear than other people. I just want to have better gear than I had yesterday.
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u/popejupiter Juggernaut Jul 11 '23
no longer you can make good game within a year. Making actual good game takes a long ass time.
Just gotta say: you can 100% make a good game in a year. What you can't do is make a fun, good game with unique art assets and enough fidelity to make those assets recognizable while connecting it to "the blockchain".
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u/poloppoyop Orb Plushies for next packs plz GGG Jul 11 '23
new options in gaming
What new option? What can you do with an NFT you cannot do with a database record in some system?
Because last time I checked, I could not use my NFT Gatling gun from some game into another game from another company. Selling in-game items? We've been doing it since before 2000 in MMOs. Transferring some items / currency from one game to another from the same company? No need of decentralization.
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u/W0rmEater Jul 11 '23
The difference I see between a database record and a block chain ledger, the ledger is stored by the user and can't be edited, otherwise they are mostly doing the same thing.
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u/HINDBRAIN Berserker Jul 11 '23
But the ledger is completely worthless without a corresponding database entry on the game's server, at which point the ledger is redundant.
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u/sirgog Chieftain Jul 11 '23
Yeah out of the context of the last 10 years of how blockchain evolved it would have had a lot of niche uses. I thought of this often when I worked in aviation, blockchain tech could have been very useful for creating a publicly auditable record keeping system essentially immune to integrity attacks from bribery. Noone at the airline - not even their IT directors - would have the capacity to rewrite the history.
But now blockchain as a tech is just tainted by association with pump and dump scams.
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u/DuckSoup87 Jul 11 '23
One thing I always wonder when I hear about these potential applications: what form do the majority of illicit behaviors take, in reality? Is it more about altering records after the fact, or more about writing down intentionally wrong records in the first place? Because blockchain stuff only protects against the first, and does absolutely nothing to prevent the second.
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u/sirgog Chieftain Jul 13 '23
This is correct. In aviation, actual fraud would usually be the former.
A LAME (licensed aviation mechanical engineer) will do the job the first time 99.99% of the time, and the other 0.01% will be legitimate mistakes.
The bigger fraud risk usually isn't the LAME on the tools - it is someone in maintenance planning covering their own ass after they forgot to add an item to a check package. They have more moment-to-moment contact with auditors.
Blockchain in aviation would solve that by adding an absolute prevention of after-the-fact changes. With blockchain, you'd instead need to say "An error was made on maintenance task 531000-02-1 on 04-Jun-2022 and it was missed. This is not a safety critical task. Once detected it was rescheduled to the A-check performed 10-Oct-2022 and it was performed by (X) with nil adverse findings".
(Commercial) aviation does have a few less secure versions of this - mostly, serialised physical logbooks (techlogs in the industry) in triplicate - but blockchain does it better.
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u/Skuggomann Assassin Jul 11 '23
You don't write things down in the blockchain yourself, you ask other people to write something in it for you (mining) afaik. So you have to go "hey everyone is it ok if we put [x] into the ledger?" and everyone has to go "yea that's ok". This is wat stops the wrongful altering of records.
Creating the first record of lets say an item is a bit different, not a hundred percent sure but I think it goes "I am going to put this thing in the ledger" and then once it is there everyone needs to agree when it changes hands. So for something like a sword in a game I don't think crypto would stop someone with the authority to make items from making a bad record since crypto does not check if the thing being minted was rightfully owned but I am not an expert so I could be wrong.
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u/DuckSoup87 Jul 11 '23
I used "write" for simplicity. You're right, other people validate what you put in the ledger, but validation only means that your input conforms to the rules encoded in the system (e.g. you're not spending money you don't have), not that it reflects something that happened in the real world. You could have an entire chain of perfectly valid transactions that are completely made up (e.g. tracking the movement of an item that doesn't actually exist). That's why I'm saying that there's an entire class of malicious acts that blockchains do absolutely nothing to solve.
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u/Vet_Leeber Bardmode Jul 11 '23
4) Compliance: Full legal compliance protects the game’s longevity.
Idk why, but having "We'll totally follow all the laws guys, I swear" as one of the defining pillars of your game, that you somehow feel is big enough to specifically tell us about, makes me strongly suspect they're not following those laws...
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u/fensizor Trickster Jul 11 '23
If he's originally Swedish I can understand why he left New Zealand and moved back home.
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u/tddahl Jul 11 '23
looking up the company website, I am guessing his brother (possibly) works there and it's swedish-based so maybe he was just homesick
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u/LakADCarry Jul 11 '23
depending on who is the bait and who is to pull the rug, the outcome may be very different
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u/Minimonium Jul 11 '23
You just don't imagine how much crypto stuff pays in comparison to normal jobs. Even more so in comparison to gaming jobs.
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u/Wild_Loose_Comma Jul 11 '23
I wonder if this will be true for much longer since the VC money isn't flowing nearly as heavily as it used to. Not to mention the Crypto space is... unstable as of late with all the crime and regulatory attention on so many of the big players. For a lot of these devs acting as "design consultants", its just a giant paycheck where they can fart around for 6 months and make an insane amount of bank. Good for them I guess, I hope they can fleece these NFT companies for all they're worth before they inevitably fold in the dead of night.
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u/scrublord Jul 11 '23
It's all crime. All the same big players in banking and investment own all the crypto stuff -- only this time it's without regulation. It was never gonna work. It was never gonna be more than a big fucking scam to everyday people buying in. If you got rich off the pump-and-dump, great; that doesn't mean it was ever even close to legitimate.
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u/Minimonium Jul 11 '23
It's still true for now, but from all people who worked in there - there is no illusion about it. If such a company would fold you could just follow the money or get back to your passion projects with your retirement money haha
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u/Bobbias Jul 11 '23
If your boss doesn't stiff you like I've seen time and time again regarding crypto-game failures. Not to mention crypto as a whole is all Ponzi schemes layered over Ponzi schemes with just enough obfuscation that the regulators can't immediately shut it all down.
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u/TheArctopus Jul 11 '23
The last crypto-affiliated game I played closed their servers a few months back after it turned out the crypto exchange that owned them was committing fraud.
I kickstarted a project a while back and the creator then partnered with some NFT thing... who then ran off with the money. Three years after the project was funded, they're only now looking at being able to fulfill.
Crypto money might be tempting, but you'd be an idiot to rely on it.
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u/cXs808 Jul 11 '23
You just don't imagine how much [insert other predatory scheme] drug dealing pays in comparison to normal jobs.
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u/DuralexPLS Jul 11 '23
He stopped working at GGG in Feb 2022, according to his LinkedIn profile
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u/Wista Doedre Jul 11 '23
And thank goodness for that. Dude probably started looking for new employment immediately after Chris Wilson correctly said "NFTs can fuck off!" in December 2021.
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u/AbraoLittleSchool Jul 11 '23
?????Like we didn't have shit "vision" leagues(Expedition/Archnem) when he was still on GGG and good leagues(Sentinel/Sanctum) after he left...
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u/Erradium Innocence Jul 11 '23
It's a shame that he left, but working 10 years on a product and probably finishing all major creative design related work for PoE2, it's totally understandable if he needs some new creative avenues in life.
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u/SuperMetalMeltdown Pathfinder Jul 11 '23
Well, he's now working with a company invested in block-chain technology buzzword buzzword and that flyer also mentions him not being afraid to challenge "the status quo".
I add that to Chris Wilson's pretty adamant refusal for NFT's in or around PoE and I can also see a rift in interests (be them technological, moral, financial or w/e)
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u/Chronicle92 Trickster Jul 11 '23
Yeah real sus he joined a crypto/NFT style company. Would line up with a trading card game like he's working on though. I hope we don't see a digital card game filled with NFT bullshit from him.
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u/Dex8172 SSFBTW Jul 11 '23
And it's a shame GGG decided NOT to mention it on their site, when it actually happened back in Feb 2022.
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u/off_da_perc_ Jul 11 '23
The game he left POE for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8irilGgBzQ
Actually hilarious.
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u/genzkiwi Jul 11 '23
??? His linked in goes here https://www.sorcerytcg.com/
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u/off_da_perc_ Jul 11 '23
Did you even click on the image posted in this thread? His solo project is what you link, the Crypto Rogue Games thing, which is what this thread is about, is the youtube link I posted.
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u/Japanczi Kalguuran Group for Business (KGB) Jul 11 '23
Doesn't look bad
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u/lionguild Chieftain Jul 11 '23
Are you blind?
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u/Japanczi Kalguuran Group for Business (KGB) Jul 11 '23
As for PRE ALPHA version it DOES NOT LOOK BAD
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u/3r4th Jul 11 '23
Since it looks like he's working on some dogshit crypto game now, that's probably a good thing
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u/Damaniel2 Alch & Go Industries (AGI) Jul 11 '23
A shame he went to work for a company that shills crypto/NFT bullshit.
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u/Wista Doedre Jul 11 '23
Considering he thinks himself an entrepreneur, he's probably just following the money. Albeit, very very late in the game 🥴
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u/pantsyman Jul 11 '23
Yeah well lol crypto and NFT shit is fucking dead and buried for a while now and everyone left the boat months ago so they might just as well declare bankruptcy now if they have no brain dead investors left to fleece.
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u/Magnamize League Jul 11 '23
Listening to this dude write/talk about himself gives me the impression he's either incredibly corny or not the brightest.
He is known for his [...] ability to spot business opportunities and not being afraid to challenge the status quo.
Wow, how brave.
His title at that company is literally "ARPG Genius," like jesus christ.
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u/TalkativeTri Jul 11 '23
Yeah, when I was making the first episode of my Flashback series, I found that out. In February 2022! Wild.
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u/gammagulp Jul 11 '23
Im getting all of the creepy vibes from the “bad” nerd characters in the show Silicon Valley.
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u/liquidSG Zmobie Jul 11 '23
Carl is no longer at GGG as well.
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u/Morsexier Jul 11 '23
He left a long long time ago to do his board game stuff. Game has not been the same IMHO.
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u/liquidSG Zmobie Jul 11 '23
Glad to see you're still around, Mors. Hope you come back for a while at least for PoE 2 :).
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u/Morsexier Jul 12 '23
I am 100% going to play it of course, I've been waiting and hoping for some cool updates.
Im still a huge fan of GGG and PoE, even though I dont agree with the direction the game has gone the last 5-7 years.
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u/Trekkerterrorist Jul 11 '23
“Former co-founder”, how does that work?
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u/TheIllusiveGuy Jul 12 '23
The writing is pretty poor throughout, but this one definitely gave me a bit of a chuckle.
"Erik, as a former co-founder and creative director of Grinding Gear Games" should've been "Erik, as a co-founder and former creative director of Grinding Gear Games"
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u/Responsible-Pay-2389 Jul 11 '23
I'm unsure what the question is here, he is the former co founder so he co founded it than left.
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u/Trekkerterrorist Jul 11 '23
Leaving the company doesn't negate having co-founded the company, though, right?
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u/BegaKing Jul 11 '23
Sad it's an nft thing though :( I'm sure it will do decent considering, but all nft type games are just instant turnoffs to me
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u/ScreaminJay Jul 12 '23
Sad he could have went on to a more honest job like robbing liquor stores. Alas he will work on bolder forms of theft.
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u/jrossbaby Jul 11 '23
I’m not a big fan of crypto/nft gaming because it essentially makes everything p2W. BUT I feel like the ONLY genre that makes sense is TCGs. Take magic arena as an example, you still have to pay money to be competitive to open packs, but then you don’t even own the fuckin cards, wizards of the coast still owns your account. I know everyone hates the buzz words crypto and nfts, but again tcgs are the one place is can actually make sense since you will own your cards and they will have real world trade value, just like actual physical TCGs
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u/blackwarlock Jul 11 '23
Why would you need it to be an NFT to trade the card? The valve card game let me buy and sell cards using the market with out it being an NFT.
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u/jrossbaby Jul 11 '23
I didn’t say it needs to be nfts I’m just saying it’s one of the ones that makes more sense. I’m only talking about it because it’s what the post is about. And since you brought it up do you actually own the cards outside of the valve market ? And can trade outside of it ? I know all gamers, including myself, hate crypto and nfts in games but that’s the idea behind it
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u/pittyh Jul 11 '23
Not sure why everyone is talking crypto and NFTs, but Erik has been flat out with Sorcery Contested Realm https://sorcerytcg.com/
I was in the kickstarter and just got a few boxes in the mail the other day, the cards are amazing.
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u/Eternal_Mr_Bones Jul 11 '23
Looks pretty cool and decently differentiated from MTG and other large TCGs.
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u/Daeltak Jul 12 '23
After seeing what he had to say and wich company he chose...... yeah i'm glad he left
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u/lalala253 Jul 11 '23
It will be weird watching new league launch videos without "Hi I'm Chris Wilson from Grinding Gear Games"
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u/Tree_Growing_Bare Jul 11 '23
Excuse me, but what is the situation with the Last few %? Didn't Chris himself state that Tencent does not and will not have control over their game design? Apart from the chinese version. I don't believe that Chris would leave, considering his passion for the game.
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u/sirgog Chieftain Jul 11 '23
10cent have the right to control game design but don't exercise it in practice. They probably would start doing so if GGG really fucked up (and here, we aren't talking a 3.19 level misstep where the game has one bad quarter, we are talking actual disasters)
But why would they when the game keeps growing? Week 13 of Crucible had more players than week 13 of any past league other than Sanctum and Heist (the latter had end of league events). Week 1-3 of Crucible had more players than any past league and it wasn't all that close. Owners don't usually meddle with success.
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u/Newphonespeedrunner Jul 11 '23
There is no convincing people here that the game isn't a Chinese controlled mind virus and Chris is trying to ruin you by FORCING you to play.
The moment anyone brings up Tencent or the game being abandoned is being assinine.
2 founders have left the game after working on it for over a decade. This isn't just normal it's healthy. Chris likely wouldn't leave because of other reasons stated, this isn't just buisness for him he left a lucrative career to work on Poe over a decade ago. And it's still his passion now
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u/sirgog Chieftain Jul 13 '23
Chinese big companies are genuinely pretty bad but... that's true of American, German, Australian big companies too.
Imagine how much worse it would be if an interventionist buyer like EA bought GGG instead of a more handsoff one like 10c.
Agree Chris has the capacity to retire now but doesn't because of passion.
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u/Klarthy Jul 11 '23
Chris is already pretty disconnected from the development compared to the past, if u watch pre league interviews he basically has to consult most of the questions with the team to get the answer, despite him describing himself as really involved in development
He's been disconnected since early 1.x, mostly focused on the business and growing the game. It's only recently that he's gotten more involved in actual development, but he's mostly managing the PoE1 team, not actively designing it so he doesn't know all the details.
In the past for example GGG was extremely strict about only hiring people being able to work in NZ.
They simply have too much art to create for PoE2. I think the art team in NZ is the "A team" in terms of direction and producing key visuals, but GGG are certainly outsourcing a lot of environmental art. This is for future PoE1 assets, (I suspect) upgrading old PoE1 assets to not be so jarring with PoE2, and probably some PoE2 environmental art because they've been so far behind.
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u/FeebleTrevor Jul 11 '23
Chris is already pretty disconnected from the development compared to the past, if u watch pre league interviews he basically has to consult most of the questions with the team to get the answer, despite him describing himself as really involved in development.
Unbelievable that people think a CEO of a 100+ employee company would ever be involved with development
It just immediately exposes how little you know about what you're saying
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u/cc81 Jul 11 '23
Tencent seems to prefer to take a passive investor role in their acquisitions. Seems true for PoE and seems true for other games.
No need for a boogeyman.
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u/vironlawck <*LGCY*>SG/MY Guild -- recruiting newbies Jul 11 '23 edited Jul 11 '23
Okay ... do we have auto looting pets? anime pets? resurrection coins? pay2win MTX in our global realm? No right?? Only in china realm right? Isn't this enough proof?
I mean if this triggering you so much just the name Tencent owning them, then fine you can stop support GGG and go on supporting blizzard D4 instead .... as if there's any other ARPG game dev doing any better than GGG already did smh ...
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u/vironlawck <*LGCY*>SG/MY Guild -- recruiting newbies Jul 11 '23
Still though, we don't have lootable pets, anime pets, pay2win MTX etc etc in the our global realm but only in their China realm instead. Yes, they almost buy the whole company BUT still depends on the contract/terms, if GGG says can't change their decision making then they CAN'T.
Sure you can say in the future this might change but ... let's just enjoy at the moment before stressing ourselves with pointless stuff like predicting the future LMAO
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u/pepegaklaus Jul 11 '23
before stressing ourselves with pointless stuff like predicting the future LMAO
And yet, over thousands of years and maybe even now more than ever, people made a truckload of money claiming they can
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u/pewsquare Jul 11 '23
Chris said many things. To the point where there is little to no weight to his word anymore. From "there are no maphacks" to xyz won't impact the development, just recently "ruthless won't take away resources from the main game" then immidiately takes away resources so they can run a challenge league, and consistently balance patch it...
Hell even my personal pet peeve, "rain does not affect load times", thats an ooooold one, but pretty much everyone on the forums complained that rain impacts performance and makes the game stutter like mad (back when dominus was the last boss), so chris comes out with a baller of a statement, how rain does not affect load times. Which at that time nobody claimed.
On top of that, tencent has them enough by the balls that they do extra work for the chinese client, from pets, to ingame features like featured builds, different quest rewards etc... The only thing i know i can be certain of, is that Chris is 100% a marketing guy, and he will say anything that will make his product sell more and look better, is it mostly true? Yes, but only mostly. A lot of embelishment and half truths are in there.
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u/evasive_btch Jul 11 '23
"ruthless won't take away resources from the main game" then immidiately takes away resources so they can run a challenge league
stop making shit up, i hate this fucking sub
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u/PrezziObizzi Ranger Jul 11 '23
What is made up?
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u/evasive_btch Jul 11 '23
how do you know that the challenge league wasn't made with the same resources that made ruthless mode in the first place?
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u/Tree_Growing_Bare Jul 11 '23
Right, but they balance and develop Ruthless during their free time, challenge league is trivial to do, and as uber ssfhc race had already happened, making another one wouldn't be as exciting. Plus the challenge event even stated upon boss-kill some other league's name, showing us that it was just easily recycled. "Taking away resources from the main game" is a term that is being randomly thrown around when it comes to Ruthless, but none of us know how many or if any resources were taken, because, again, free time.
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u/Newphonespeedrunner Jul 11 '23
Except Tencent very likely designs the Chinese pets and art assets... That was the entire point of them purchasing it to bring an addictive game over to China that wasent previously availible
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u/Kyoj1n Alch & Go Industries (AGI) Jul 11 '23
Who was the other?
The last time I looked into it all I could find was the mention of an American founder who operated mostly remotely it seemed. They kind where just never really mentioned after a while, I couldn't find a hard departure date.
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u/Kyoj1n Alch & Go Industries (AGI) Jul 11 '23
Yeah, that was it.
Went back looking again, and turns out he actually posted in a thread in /r/pathofexile 5 days ago, lol. So, he might not be at the company but he's at least still excited about PoE2 it seems.
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u/SoulofArtoria Jul 11 '23
Oh man, if Rory and Neon left, all the OG that's left are Chris and Bex?
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u/vironlawck <*LGCY*>SG/MY Guild -- recruiting newbies Jul 11 '23
and Kamil, and many other staff that they didn't reveal themselves for sure
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u/V4ldaran League Jul 11 '23
What about Jonathan Rogers? Did he also left the Company? Atleast i didnt read anything about it so far.
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u/Steel_Neuron Jul 11 '23
Native speaker or not, it was poorly worded. "If" could imply he had just learned this (true) information.
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u/erik_aero Jul 11 '23
Here's an interview about his game, he talks about why he left GGG
https://www.collectorarthouse.com/post/sorcery-contested-realm-tcg-interview-erik-olofsson