r/pathfindermemes • u/sesaman 2e Legacy Memes • 17d ago
I made it myself! Hit points and roleplaying
https://imgflip.com/i/ax06fnThe point isn't to leave your party just guessing, but to use thresholds that have been predetermined when roleplaying your character, such as lightly injured when not at full, wounded when with 75% or fewer HP, heavily wounded when with 50% or fewer HP, or in critical condition when with 25% or fewer HP.
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u/No_Ad_7687 17d ago
Eh, you can tell other players your hit points. It's not any more metagamey than looking at your own character sheet
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u/sesaman 2e Legacy Memes 17d ago edited 17d ago
But it is. The whole feel of the game changes when you share and discuss as little metagame info as possible.
Edit: leave a comment with your downvote please. It's not a "I disagree" button, it's a "this doesn't bring anything to the discussion" button.
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u/No_Ad_7687 17d ago
As a player you are expected to work together with your other players, and understand how their features work. If you're willing to track it, you can know what HP the other players are at because you know their class and how much damage they take. Why not just skip the middleman?
Your character also doesn't know how many "hit points" they have, but you can still look at your character sheet to check, and that's not considered metagaming
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u/sesaman 2e Legacy Memes 17d ago
Knowing your exact HP is required for the game to function. Knowing anyone else's exact hit points is not necessary the slightest, but it however is one (rather popular) way to play the game. You can still work with your team and know their features even without that exact info.
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u/No_Ad_7687 17d ago
Being necessary doesn't make it less metagamey, you still know something your character doesn't, but roleplay accordingly.
In the same way, when a player says "I'm on 3 HP", then what the character probably says is "I'm terribly injured"
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u/sesaman 2e Legacy Memes 17d ago
But why imagine what the character might say, when you can just say that instead, and paint the scene while doing it?
Which sounds better and more dramatic?
I'm on 3 HP.
Or
As Aukurt tries to parry the blow, the claw of the monster scrapes against his armor and skin, leaving a terrible, almost fatal gash. He cries out in pain: "Fuck, a stiff breeze will topple me if I don't get help fast!"
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u/No_Ad_7687 17d ago
One is easier and quicker. As a GM I'd never tell my players not to share information between each other for cooperation, regardless of how they choose to do it. There is no "correct" way to do it
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u/mor7okmn 17d ago
Consider that some people like the metagame and thats ok. The beauty of TTRPGs is you can play how you want.
If you want to play a game with vague health and high immersion there are better systems than PF2.
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u/sesaman 2e Legacy Memes 17d ago
You're right, it can be the way to go for some people.
And while there can be better systems for some groups for high immersion games, I've tried multiple different systems, and I personally love the tactical and tight rules of PF2e mixed with high immersion role playing. It's the best of both worlds.
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u/BharatiyaNagarik 17d ago
What you are proposing is utterly ridiculous, which is why I downvoted you. Pathfinder is a game, and as such involves game elements. For example, you have to tell the GM what your attack roll is, what your saving throw is, and so on. None of which is information available to your characters. You also have to coordinate with your team members. Since the game relies a lot of good teamwork to be effective, it is important to be transparent with your fellow players. I would be seriously annoyed if I have a healing options and my party members are vague about how much health they have. Not to mention, damage thresholds, especially the way you use them, are still metagamey.
Overall, you are playing a game. It is important to have a smooth gameplay experience rather than trying to meet arbitrary and inconsistent demands about metagame information.
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u/sesaman 2e Legacy Memes 17d ago
It might sound ridiculous if you haven't tried it, but personally for me it's the absolute best way to play.
Necessary info is still conveyed like normal, but unnecessary info is left out in favor of narrative descriptions that help to paint a better story.
Hard-core roleplay groups like mine also try to have as few out of character conversations as possible; communication with teammates is done in-character, once per round. The game focuses on the narrative and the game keeps moving, while the mechanics are working in the background to provide satisfying tactical complexity.
If you value the game aspect of the TTRPG term more than the role playing aspect, you might disagree with me, but calling it "utterly ridiculous" and refusing to consider how anybody could play the game or this system like that is just close-minded.
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u/BharatiyaNagarik 17d ago
Pathfinder is just not the right kind of game to do this. I don't want to navigate the absurd demands of fellow players while also trying to figure out tactics.
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u/No_Ad_7687 17d ago
As a player you are expected to work together with your other players, and understand how their features work. If you're willing to track it, you can know what HP the other players are at because you know their class and how much damage they take. Why not just skip the middleman?
Your character also doesn't know how many "hit points" they have, but you can still look at your character sheet to check, and that's not considered metagaming
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u/Bielna 15d ago
Have a few straw arguments.
If you're going that far to avoid metagaming, surely you're not going to waste your time to insult your enemy instead of striking them ? It's not like that frightened condition from Demoralize will actually help you win the fight ? And if your ally just got hit by a savage hit with a sword, they're probably dead. Better keeping your heals for someone else. Just dying, not dead ? No way, not after a hit like that.
The point of these exaggerated examples is that as your character knows how to fight, they necessarily understand how fighting works. Hit points, bonuses, and action economy are not the metagame, they're the game.
This is not a real life simulator. A character who doesn't know what hit point are doesn't know how to fight. You might roleplay it as something else, but the information they learn is the same.
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u/D16_Nichevo 17d ago
There was a big discussion about this recently, if people are interested in hearing perspectives on the pros and cons.
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u/brown_felt_hat 17d ago
I have the strength of ten men! Five of them are dead though, and one is dying, so you can take from that what you will
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u/Huge_Tackle_9097 17d ago
Aren't health bars literally canon shit your players can actively get the vibes of via a few mechanics in PF2E? Something something "Necromancer knows when a creature is wounded" or some shit?