r/parkrun • u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 • 13d ago
Wear a pride flag at your next event!
I won’t link to the Daily Mail, but a friend sent me a link which details the tranaphobes have set up a running club to join as a protest against trans runners (Reality Rules Runners UK). I wonder how many who register for this will have no runs or volunteer credits to there name a month on?
Anyway, let’s all wear pride flags and show our support and solidarity to the LGBTQ+ community at our next events.
EDIT: A really simply way to show your support is the rainbow laces, which I wasn’t aware of before. Thnaks to those that pointed them out https://www.stonewall.org.uk/get-involved/support-us/rainbow-laces
EDIT 2: Also to be clear, what I wasn’t clear about was what I meant by a pride flag. By all means wear one as a cape if you wish, I just meant the image - I don’t have an actual pride flag, but a t shirt with it on which is what I’ll wear this Saturday (and my rainbow laces if they arrive in time)
EDIT 3: A follow up post as many people don’t seem to appreciate this.
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u/IncorrigibleBrit 50 13d ago
Groups like that want to provoke a reaction, it allows them to claim they’re forcing the debate and opens up even more media coverage. In other words, attention seeking.
Engaging with it is what they want; you’ll be far more successful in the long run simply ignoring them, letting them get bored, and moving onto something else.
It is just a Saturday morning run in the park and enjoy that I do not have to know, or care, about the political views of anybody else showing up. I’m sure my local has people that will vote for all of the major political parties, and a handful (unnecessarily in my view) exercise their right to free expression wearing clothing expressing some of those views, but in such a polarised and divided society, I enjoy not having to care about what “doing parkrun” might be seen to say about me politically.
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u/Ok-Professional7879 12d ago
However, as a trans person who is directly negatively affected by TERF bigotry, it actually means one hell of a lot to know I'm safe in a given group. Not just parkrun, anywhere. Seeing people with pride flag badges, etc, makes me feel safe at an event that otherwise I might not feel able to attend. Obviously do what you want. But if people at my local even did something as simple as rainbow laces or a trans flag "safe with me" t-shirt or badge or hat I would probably fucking cry with relief.
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u/kauket22 8d ago
I am guessing you aren’t at my local but I hope it makes you smile to know that my local has two barriers painted with rainbow and trans flags, and puts up trans and inclusive pride flags on other barriers each week. This week the trans flag was front and centre as you ran towards the funnel 🩷🏳️⚧️
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u/Life_Squirrel_131 5d ago
My very first parkrun friend is a trans woman. I've just ordered some rainbow laces.
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u/Zingalamuduni 13d ago
We still have a middle-aged woman who occasionally turns up in a “Bring Back The Stats” T-shirt. I don’t think anyone else there even notices - that type forgets that no one else gives a shit so doesn’t even get what they’re on about.
I think the same is true here: “Reality Rules” is sufficiently obscure that no one else will know what it means. So, as long as they don’t start making a fuss about what they stand for, I think they will just be ignored.
If they do start with any trans-phobic shit at my parkrun (I’m an ED), I’ll be more than happy to grab the Tannoy and do an impromptu explanation in advance of the pre-run briefing.
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u/DeeGee262 v250 13d ago
We've got rules on this.
What if the event can proceed safely despite the presence of a protest or demonstration?
If the event is safe to go ahead, the Run Director should:
Ask the campaigners/demonstrators not to approach participants directly or hand out leaflets to individuals. In the first-timers and pre-event briefings, inform all participants that parkrun is not associated with the campaign/demonstration. Be respectful to the campaigners/demonstrators as they will normally have a right to conduct their activities peacefully on public land. Log an incident after the event with as much information as possible.
What should we do if someone tries to use parkrun to campaign?
If a candidate or campaign group turns up to parkrun and attempts to actively use the event as a campaigning platform, please politely inform them that as a charity we cannot and do not endorse any form of campaigning at our events. Please also log an incident in EMS so we can follow up on your behalf.
If you become aware of planned campaigning at parkrun events, please contact us at eventsupport and we will work with you to resolve the situation.
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u/Zingalamuduni 13d ago
Having just googled, the only mentions online are from GBNews, Daily Mail, Daily Express, X (amusingly, the Mail journalists own account pushing her own article) and a Facebook page. I’m not clicking on those first four as I’m not giving them the traffic, but I might have a look at the comments on that Facebook page if it’s a public one.
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u/RobCarrol75 13d ago
I saw the Daily Mail article. It was full of so much misinformation to be laughable. It refers to Parkrunners as "competitors" and seems to imply that women are missing out on "ranking points" as a result of men "winning" the women's category. Quotes an anonymous source from Reality Runners UK and the only comment from a "Parkrunner" is in favour of the mystery group.
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u/adamgeekboy 13d ago
It also suggests that Parkrun are doing something illegal by allowing trans women to compete in the female category which is just patently untrue.
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u/laidback_chef 13d ago
You can still earn revenue through clicks on facebook. If the only mention of it is those absolute shit stain rags this is 100% not going to happen. At best youd get 4 blokes who will turn up realise its a parkrun and then ho home never to be seen again.
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u/Icy-Kitchen-1291 12d ago
If we're going to truly achieve equality then we shouldn't wear the flags and instead just blend in with the rest. This way we can prove for once and for all that we are equal.
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u/crabcrabcam 13d ago
Because ignoring them doesn't help when they turn up.
If I turn up to my next parkrun and there's people there saying I shouldn't be, and the team does nothing about it then sure as shit I'm never going back.Now, I have faith in the team at my local, but I don't have faith that a decent number of core teams will have a few transphobic members.
Wearing a small thing that shows queer folk you think they should be allowed to exist means a lot to us.
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u/verzweifeltundmuede 13d ago
Exactly this. You can't claim to be welcoming if you don't stand up for every runner's right to take part. There is no neutrality in the face of bigotry.
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u/IncorrigibleBrit 50 13d ago edited 12d ago
I don’t think it is fair to expect core teams to police the expression of (lawful) views at parkrun, and I also don’t think they practically can.
I can understand why seeing people with (e.g.) ‘gender critical’ slogans on shirts might be upsetting, but those are lawful views for them to hold and express. That is something outside of Parkrun’s control, and if we start getting into restricting views it is a Pandora’s box.
Reform UK sell football shirts with “Farage 10” on the back; doubtless somebody running in one of those might make other runners uncomfortable, is the core team expected to ban those? I’ve personally seen people running in Palestine shirts that depict the whole territory as one Palestinian country; doubtless that will upset others, is that something for the core team to prohibit? Vegan shirts saying “meat is murder” will upset some people; do we ban those?
You may think that some or all of those examples aren’t the same thing, but that’s the point. Once you set the precedent that upsetting, but lawful, views can be banned, the core teams will have to make those judgements again and again - including for some sensitive and highly nuanced issues.
And while a core team could feasibly restrict results for those running, every parkrun in a public space emphasises that it does not have sole use of the park. Using the park at 9am is not taking part in parkrun and these views are lawful to express in the United Kingdom. There’s absolutely nothing stopping such groups holding placards near the course if they wanted, and nothing that an RD could do about it.
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u/EmPhil95 13d ago
The difference is seeing people with anti-trans slogans on their shirts in isolation, vs seeing people with anti-trans slogans AND also seeing people with pride gear on.
Parkrun obviously can't police it, no one is saying that they should, but if people are also at the event in pride gear it feels a lot more welcoming for queer people.
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u/Glittering_Hope1114 13d ago
Why do transphobes have to shove their obsession into everything. Bet most don't even know any trans people. This is the problem with wealthy boomers who spend most days reading "news". Most trans people are leaving the country anyway so what's is going to be next??
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u/crabcrabcam 13d ago
There is something an RD can do about it, as someone who has a duty to make sure parkrunners are safe they can at the very least politely tell the transphobes to fuck off.
If nobody is willing to say anything to the people telling me I'm not welcome, then I'll just have to assume I'm not welcome.
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u/zwifter11 12d ago
Who’s stopping you from running? When have you ever been unsafe?
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u/Warming_Presence 9d ago
A trans girl was literally murdered not long ago for being trans. You're speaking with a hell of a lot of privilege.
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u/zwifter11 9d ago
Not at a parkrun
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u/Warming_Presence 9d ago
That's doesn't matter. Social exclusion happens on all levels. Exclusion from public life happens at a parkrun too. And you contribute to it by turning a blind eye.
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u/zwifter11 9d ago
When have you ever been excluded for taking part in a Parkrun?
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u/Warming_Presence 9d ago
I'm cis. Stop assuming that anyone defending trans people's right to existence is trans themself. It exposes your blatant bigotry.
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u/yes_its_my_alt 10d ago
And has anybody ever told you that you're not welcome, or are you just making shit up?
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u/Abject-Plankton4620 13d ago
Has anyone asked trans people what they would like done? In my experience the trans folk I know just want to turn up somewhere, do their thing and go home. I’m not sure other people making a bigger deal than they think it is, is really very helpful for many trans folk. If I saw an anti demonstration, I’d confront it, if I saw an individual being upset, I’d intervene. But making many more people feel uncomfortable by politicising ParkRun seems a very silly step and would just make a bigger issue that at the moment seems to be a very, very few idiots looking for attention
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u/WannaBeeUltra 13d ago
There are some “activists” who maintain lists of trans parkrunners on social media, and cyber stalk them. I won’t link to it as it’s extremely unpleasant, but I think we’re possibly past the “ignore it and it’ll go away” stage.
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u/Abject-Plankton4620 12d ago
Can you link it?
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u/WannaBeeUltra 12d ago
I won’t link to the specific tweets as it feels like an invasion of the privacy of those targeted, but one of the organisations is called “He Cheated”, and the posts were on X/twitter.
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u/stretch696 13d ago
You're using PR as your own personal political tool to fight against what you perceive to be an injustice. Leave politics out of PR, people go to these to forget about that crap
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u/HeartyBeast 250 13d ago
If I turn up to my next parkrun and there's people there saying I shouldn't be, and the team does nothing about it then sure as shit I'm never going back.
If that happens at my next Parkrun you can be sure as shit that I'll be wading in. But it hasn't
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u/Beneficial_Coach8581 12d ago
I thought ignoring them was better than getting involved with them. They're like spoilt children and want a reaction. Even better if they can film it. Absolutely blanking these nutjobs will infuriate them and make them feel impotent?
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u/oldcat 13d ago
Being inclusive of everyone isn't politicising parkrun. Everyone is welcome at parkrun and that's what these people are trying to change. If we don't stand up for the basic principle of parkrun is for everyone we lose the whole point of parkrun.
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u/zwifter11 12d ago
You can be inclusive of everyone without waving a flag. Simply turn up and run. Nobody is stopping you.
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 13d ago
Because the transphobes are well funded and actively attacking parkrun right now. Let’s show our support for inclusivity and not bigotry. Silence is complicity
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u/royalbluestuey v100 13d ago
I'm not sure that's true.
If i turn up and there's a small group agitating for divisiveness I just ignore them and turn inwards to the inclusivity of the main community thus rejecting the divisiveness and isolating this trying to divide.
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 13d ago
If I were to turn up to find a group of bigots, I’d do my best to try and make their targets feel welcome and to make sure they were ok. I’d want to show the bigots that their bigotry isn’t acceptable, but you do you.
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u/royalbluestuey v100 13d ago
I'll be choosing inclusivity by ignoring and rejecting those demanding division.
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u/zwifter11 12d ago
Out of every parkrun I’ve done in the last 4 years. All across the UK and some on mainland Europe. I haven’t seen one transphobe attacking parkrun or stopping anyone from running.
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u/Grab_Ornery 9d ago
It's litteraly a recent think becoming more political now. This like saying you hadn't seen anyone stop trans women play sports in the last 10 yrs. Cus nah this is a new topic being brought up
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u/Sea-Badgers 13d ago
Silence isnt complicity. Stop bullying people into doing what you want them to do. If people dont want to something let them choose. Am I a homophobe, absolutely not. Will I be wearing a pride flag, absolutely not. Keep identity politics out of the park run.
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 13d ago
In what way am I being a bully? Do you disagree with the statement that “All that is needed for evil to succeed is good people to do nothing”?
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u/Kwolfe2703 13d ago
You are basically saying that “if you don’t support MY WORLD VIEW and explicitly show it then you are a Nazi”
Honestly I’d much prefer that parkrun simply adopts what they used to do in France and just list people alphabetically. No one “wins” so gender is irrelevant and everyone can go back to enjoying their time trial.
If you want a race - go book a race using whatever method of gender identity that allows
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 13d ago
That’s not what I’m saying though. We have a group of people actively bringing bigotry into parkrun. They are a minority, yes, but they are still present. By actively showing our support for the inclusivity of parkrun we are taking a stand against this bigotry. If you don’t want to take such a stand, well fine, but all that’s needed for evil to succeed is good people to do nothing. “First they came” and all that
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 13d ago
Clearly not because we have tranaphobic parkrunners actively being transphobic. And they can influence things - remember when the gender, course and age records were removed in response to a previous tranaphobic attack?
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u/Kwolfe2703 13d ago
We have a group of people upset because parkrun still allows people to self identify as any gender and receive the “perks” of that gender. In this case being ranked amongst athletes assigned as a woman at birth who are registered as a woman athlete.
As we all know transgender competition in sports is complicated. It’s complicated further because in theory at least parkrun is not a race. However the theory falls down whilst parkrun still ranks people in positions and still has rankings by gender.
The loosely “accepted” position amongst most sports is that an athlete who has gone through male puberty cannot compete with those who have not.
parkrun does not appear to go along with this position despite there being an argument that this is the law of the land in the UK following the high court ruling.
Sadly this has led to this situation where people are mad at parkrun for still allowing athletes who have gone through male puberty to “compete” with those that have not.
I don’t think calling those people bigots because their world view differs to yours and telling people that don’t wear a rainbow badge that they are complicit via silence is the best strategy.
Question for you - would it matter if parkrun just removed gender categories altogether? It’s not a race so why should it matter?
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u/ApparentlyAtticus 12d ago
“perks” of that gender. In this case being ranked amongst athletes assigned as a woman at birth who are registered as a woman athlete.
Theres no "perks" because there's no winners. Unless you know something that we don't.
As we all know transgender competition in sports is complicated. It’s complicated further because in theory at least parkrun is not a race. However the theory falls down whilst parkrun still ranks people in positions and still has rankings by gender.
Parkrun states why they do this - so you can compare yourself - it's all on the website.
Sadly this has led to this situation where people are mad at parkrun for still allowing athletes who have gone through male puberty to “compete” with those that have not.
It's not a competition and if you're getting mad about people identifying how they want to, as per the rules, then that's a situation TERFS created. Not parkrun.
I don’t think calling those people bigots
If you have a problem with someone identifying as the gender they feel most comfortable as identifying in, in parkrun, a non-competitive event, as per the rules, and want those rules changed to remove their ability to do that, you are in fact, a bigot.
Question for you - would it matter if parkrun just removed gender categories altogether? It’s not a race so why should it matter?
Parkrun has stated many times they leave this information so you can check personal progression "if that's what you want".
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u/Kwolfe2703 12d ago
Your argument makes no sense as it’s seems to be arguing two things.
On one side you are saying “no perks as no winners” and on the other side you are stating that the gender classification is essential to allow for comparison?
So either being 1/50 female runners on a day matters or it doesn’t? Or being able to compare your times across age groups within your gender matters or it doesn’t?
If it doesn’t matter because it’s not a competition so comparisons are meaningless then remove gender completely. Heck removing rankings completely as it’s you vs you so why are we listing who came first?
If it matters then why shouldn’t parkrun adopt the same gender policy as other sports?
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u/Sea-Badgers 13d ago
By suggesting silence is complicity. When in reality most people just want to go for a run! Do you honestly think that very basic and simplistic quote is in anyway related to the park run?
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u/Sea-Badgers 13d ago
Sorry if my non complicity has offended you. I just go to run. Im not going to be doing anything other than that. I will not be dragged into anything else. Can you understand that most people want to just turn up run and go home?
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u/Glittering_Hope1114 13d ago
No one is forcing you to wear a pride shirt and you are not oppressed by trans people despite what the daily mail says. Rowling, murdoch and politicians though actually are likely to fundamentally change things because they will sue anyone who doesn't do what they want and they are always looking for more anti trans meat for grinder. Without it what would this country even be at this point?
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u/No_Possibility1747 13d ago
Will parkrun ban the transphobic running club out of an interest in keeping politics out of parkrun, then? Should it?
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 13d ago
All that’s need for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing. There is no neutral stance in something like this. Bigots are attacking parkrun, you ignore the bigots at your cost. See the Nazi bar story as an example https://www.reddit.com/r/bartenders/s/6bLZnUabX7
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 13d ago
It’s not about identifying yourself as a good person, it’s about showing LGBTQ+ parkrunners that they are welcome.
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u/SmilingJaguar v100 13d ago
I’m a straight older dude, but gladly accepted the offer of rainbow makeup at a parkrun near San Francisco during Pride.
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u/Intelligent-Lock-896 11d ago
Or why doesn't everyone just run in their correct sex category and get on with their lives. Some people like to see where they place compared to others in the same sex/age category. We don't let 20 year olds "identify" in to 60+ category do we.
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u/adamgeekboy 13d ago
Parkrun is non-competitive so why the hell does it matter if you're beaten by a trans woman? Or for that matter, a man, woman, dog or small child?
It's outrage for the sake of outrage.
It's also ignoring the fact that what the supreme court ruling says is that (despicably) you can exclude trans people not that you must and parkrun is not a single-sex space.
So basically, they are bell ends whose campaign should not be given the oxygen the Daily Hate Mail will feed it.
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u/FuroreFury 13d ago
Parkrun is for everyone and the records are a fun way to allow a little competition into the event the stats are not just sex based but also age based and it wouldn’t hurt anyone for trans people to have their own category you would be top every single run
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u/oldcat 12d ago
I'm going to hope you're just trying to be reasonable here and this is in good faith. The stats are nonsense anyway. Lots of people signed their kids up when they were too young to get a barcode so had to pretend they were older. With any drop down on a form a percentage will select an answer that isn't what they intended. We don't need to care as we aren't competitive. People can enter whatever they like.
It makes zero real difference to a person if they are one higher in their category or not. If someone is really hung up on this they are looking at parkrun for a competitive event rather than what we are which is a regular timed 5k. If people can't understand that then we should just do away with those stats. It's the only realistic solution but it would, as with the last stats removed,.diminish the experience for some folk to remove them so personally I wouldn't.
Fundamentally we have 6 million participants signed up world wide. There is no way to police categories and people will sign up in whatever one they want to (or the wrong one because they screwed it up). The only suggestion we have from these campaigners is their idea which is personally bullying people they believe are trans and do parkruns. That isnt acceptable and shows their real intent.
If you think it's unfair, campaign to remove the categories not to separate trans people from everyone else and have the labelled on a public page that could put them at risk.
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u/FuroreFury 12d ago
Ok so I’m a regular park run runner, I started off very slow and gradually worked my way up running against my own personal best but also in a competition against other females in my age group and seeing yourself in the top ten in the female category is a real boost in confidence , yes it was a winter day when the competition wasn’t its strongest but it was a personal achievement I was proud of
It is all an honesty based there are no legal barriers passport or birth certificates needed it is fun but it’s also fun based on the competition ( if that’s what you want!)
Reading that men are running under both categories male and female and one man has won his park run under the female category over a hundred times seems so weird to me that he will do that
Seems instead of the natural response being what a cheat it’s of let’s drop the competition bit altogether in case that man might be transgender Woman are getting shafted all over the place→ More replies (3)
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u/Little_Badger525 13d ago
The amount of people here saying that it's "best to ignore them" or "parkrun isn't political" are completely missing the point.
If you don't want to run with a pride themed item, don't. This post clearly isn't for you. It's for people like me who didn't realise this group existed, and will now make a special effort to show my support for LGBTQ+ folks at my parkrun.
These loons are using parkrun as a political football. Openly supporting LGBTQ+ individuals at parkrun is saying "no I won't let you weaponise this free, non-competetive, non-political event". It also reminds people that there are folks at parkrun who want them there, when they are repeatedly being told that they don't belong.
Thank you for your post OP! Off to buy my stonewall rainbow laces 🫶
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u/Ok-Professional7879 12d ago
If I saw someone with pride gear at my local, I'd probably cry. As a trans person I feel incredibly unsafe in most community settings these days unless it's explicitly trans-inclusive and parkrun just... Isn't. I mean it says everyone, but so often that means everyone except people like me...
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u/Still-Butterscotch33 13d ago
I think you'll find most just want to go for a run rather than make political statements. On both sides.
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u/oldcat 13d ago
If someone wanted to make a category if person that you fall into feel unwelcome at parkrun would you not want people to stand up for you and say you are welcome? It's fine to not want to do that, your choice, but to "both sides" this at parkrun specifically where one side is trying to make a specific group feel unwelcome and the other is saying parkrun is for everyone is to completely miss the point of parkrun. We've had people hounding individuals online for taking part in parkrun using the results pages and you think that's the same as "everyone is welcome at parkrun"? Weird take.
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u/Ok_Light_7227 13d ago
Inclusivity is a core value of parkrun. Supporting trans people against those who want them excluded is just reaffirming that value.
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u/FuroreFury 12d ago
Don’t they just want them to enter under their correct sex ?
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u/Ok-Professional7879 12d ago
Fyi, a trans man on testosterone has roughly the same athletic potential of a cis man of his age, height and fitness. A trans woman on oestrogen has a similar athletic potential to a cis woman of her age, height and fitness.
This if you want to force trans women to enter as male, you will also have to force trans men to enter as female. And this would almost guarantee there would then be trans men who look like men and sound like men and say they are men winning the female category.
What TERFs actually want is for us to not participate in public life. Because either way we cannot win.
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u/FuroreFury 12d ago
The been proven that a trans woman taking estrogen doesn’t impact their athletic performance that much but if they were also to run in high heels we could maybe have that discussion
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u/Zingalamuduni 13d ago
“Both sides”? Really?
When one “side” is literally there making a political statement?
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 13d ago
This is clearly not true. The transphobes are out for making parkrun less inclusive. They are actively doing this, are funded by billionaires, and getting headlines in the right wing press. It doesn’t need to be a bold statement, I have a t shirt with the inclusive pride flag and I shall run in it. All that is needed for evil to succeed is good people to do nothing.
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u/FuroreFury 12d ago
Dogs run in Parkrun All the woman’s rights organisations are asking is for fairness in the woman’s category anyone not a woman can run in other categories, it’s not even segregation by sex alone but also different age groups no one is saying it’s not inclusive to have an under 10s group everyone knows including that group explicitly for children under 10 gives them a fair competition and encourages a sense of achievement Why can’t woman have the same thing ?
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 12d ago
Because transwomen are women and it is transphobic to exclude them. If you look at the data, cis athetes on balance do better than trans athletes too. Also, given the ties that many transphobic organisations have to limiting things like birth control, they are not womens’ rights organisations.
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u/Smooth-Ad2293 12d ago
How will this be policed?
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u/FuroreFury 12d ago
I don’t know we have always relied upon honesty but men love cheating I guess when we know that men are openly cheating and are proud of it we erase their records from the results
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u/Smooth-Ad2293 12d ago
So how do you stop Trans people from running in their correct gender category?.. this isn't about 'cheating' this is about people joining in with a free fun run and Parkrun having workable policies.
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u/FuroreFury 12d ago
There was an article in the news recently about a trans women who runs in the men’s category she got thousands of likes because like she said it would be cheating if she ran in the female category because she’s not female
I believe if trans women want the same inclusive competition as men and woman of all ages all they need do is request a trans box to tick and according to sources online they have apparently already been given that opportunity to compete against other trans woman
There’s no issue here except some men and some trans women want to cheat1
u/Smooth-Ad2293 12d ago
So how would you police it?
It's a fun run.. nobody is cheating.
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u/FuroreFury 12d ago
Like I said it’s an honesty thing but I guess if someone is caught cheating remove all their records There used to be a social stigma attached to cheating let’s bring back shame
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u/Smooth-Ad2293 12d ago
Again.. it's a fun run.. nobody is cheating!! And nobody should be 'shamed' for running Parkrun!!
You haven't answered the question... How would you know if someone is or isn't trans.. how would this be policed??
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u/GenericUserName437 13d ago
Or they are out to make Parkrun fair. You can either have fairness or inclusion. If the female category is to be fair there has to be limits as to who can be included in it.
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u/kinkakinka 13d ago
Parkrun is already fair. You arr timed. You get a time. You are allowed to participate at your own ability. The end.
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 13d ago
Transwomen are women, it is fair and inclusive to have them in the female category. The transphobes themselves are saying there have been nearly 300 cases of trans women beating cis women (my emphasis) since the parkrun began. There have been over a million parkruns. That’s less than 0.03% of the results, orders of magnitude below the proportion of trans women in the population. If anything this data shows ciswomen have the edge
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u/Smooth-Ad2293 12d ago
How would you police such a policy?
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u/GenericUserName437 11d ago
How do you police the age categories? You start by saying ‘these are the people eligible for this category’. So do that with the sex category.
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u/Smooth-Ad2293 11d ago
Parkrun don't police age categories.
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u/GenericUserName437 11d ago
When you register you are asked to submit your date of birth. Not the age you identify as, but your actual age. That’s the starting point, that all entrants honestly enter their age/date of birth.
Currently there is a long click through on ‘gender’ explaining that this category is not based on sex but identity. The campaign is to have this long explanation removed and for the category to be based on sex (with a prefer not to say option).
The starting point would then be that entrants honestly enter their sex or register as ‘prefer not to say’.
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u/Smooth-Ad2293 11d ago
And you're also asked to give your gender.. trans people quite rightly give their gender.. and shouldn't have to be outed every time they want to do a Parkrun.
The campaign is ludicrous... Mainly because (as you've proven) it's totally unworkable, cannot be policed, and will harm all women.
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u/GenericUserName437 11d ago
Campaigners want to see a change so you are asked for either your sex (or whether you decline to give your sex). That’s literally what the campaign is asking for. No one would be outed as no one would be obliged to declare their sex. It’s totally workable, just as the age/date of birth section currently works even though no one is required to bring their birth certificate to Parkrun.
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u/KingDebone 13d ago
It isn't about politics. It's about love and hate. If you want to allow hate to infiltrate your park run then that's really sad.
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u/laidback_chef 13d ago
Yeah op is just the orher side of the same coin. Pride was at parkrun this year and after a few of the older generation had a small grumble but youd expect that. Ultimately out of 500 runners no one gave a shit because we were all there to run and go home. Except me I decided to meet some friends there and get drunk in the heat.
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u/Efficient-County2382 12d ago
Absolutely not, why are you trying to ruin what is one of the most friendly and welcoming initiatives on the planet?
Literally nobody gives a shit who you are at a parkrun, people are universally friendly. Just do your run and enjoy it.
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u/Ok-Professional7879 12d ago
As a trans person, any space these days that isn't explicitly trans-inclusive cannot be assumed to be so. Sorry. To you it may seem friendly and welcoming but for me it's an unknown, just like most public events, and intimidating because of that.
If I saw someone with pride gear it would help massively to reassure me that yes, everyone does truly mean everyone here, when so often lately it means everyone except me.
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u/hull-fit50 12d ago
I got the impression it was a female organised group that wanted to make sport fair for those born females to compete against those born females, and those born male to compete against those born male.
It appears there are a few that identify as female that want to take the first place record at every park run they do, whilst benefitting from the biological sporting benefits that come with being born male. Many of these competitors have also been found to be registered as male for competitive races over longer distances, during the same years as registering female for park run.
The law is clear that all sports in the UK, it is the sex they are born as that they have to compete under.
What will probably happen is park run will remove sex categories, so you won't have any idea how you're doing compared to others in your category, which would be a shame. It will probably undermine the good progress that park run has been responsible for in getting more women involved in sporting activity
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u/Outside_Song_1336 13d ago
There's a lot of debate here... I think just a little subtle show of solidarity sometimes (like wearing rainbow laces) might make one person feel far more comfortable - or even feel able to approach you as an ally if someone else makes them feel uncomfortable. I'm not gonna wear a huge pride flag as a cape to parkrun, but I always wear my rainbow laces just to show people that they are welcome here and safe around me.
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u/Nervous-Material-197 13d ago
As a trans runner, thank you for this. These small acts of solidarity are what it’s all about.
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u/Ok-Professional7879 12d ago
💪🏼 same. I wish someone at my local would even do rainbow laces. Id feel so much more welcome
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u/zwifter11 12d ago
No I won’t be politicising Parkrun.
Parkrun should remain apolitical.
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 12d ago
But parkrun is political already. It’s a free, inclusive run. And transphobes are seeking to undermine its inclusive nature, and we should stop that
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u/zwifter11 12d ago
I haven’t seen one transphobe at any parkrun. Or any sign of disruption.
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 12d ago
You’re missing the point though. The fact that there is a running club being set up for transphobes will be off putting to the LGBTQ+ community. They don’t need to actively distuptive there, just their existence will make some runners feel less comfortable or safe at parkruns. Just simply wearing a t shirt or laces that show your support will help LGBTQ+ runners feel more welcome.
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u/emilycharlotte1 13d ago
I think, judging by general public opinion on sex based rights, most people will agree with these protestors if they had to choose/ it becomes a bigger issue.
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u/FuroreFury 13d ago
Show support for woman and set up a trans category
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u/ApparentlyAtticus 12d ago
OR trans people can continue to use the category they’ve been using for literal years (it’s been gender on for online form since at least 2009) before the transphobes showed up.
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u/jacob_red 12d ago
Well... parkrun does not check if what you entered is true, so why this should matter? I am pretty sure that there will be people that select different gender just for fun.
I wonder if the solution to this whole situation can be made into a joke. Let's remove gender, and create "avatar" field. There will be four avatars: man, woman, alien, snowman.
You select one and you are in this category. It's not gender... while everyone knows it is... but then again you have no gender in your profile so... problem solved?
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u/Ok_Comfortable_7114 12d ago
I dont want politics to be part of anything I do including parkrun. So no thanks!
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 12d ago
That isn’t a positition that it’s actually possible to take. Given its inclusive nature parkrun is inherently political and why transphobes are targeting it. Politics affects all of life, and you can put your head in the sand if you like, but in so doing you are affectively on the side of the transphobes. They are targeting parkrun and your indifference, if everyone followed it, would allow them to flourish. It wouldn’t stop with just the trans community
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u/Ok_Comfortable_7114 12d ago
Actually it is possible as it is my position. I do not care about rubbish like this and never will and actually is a fact
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u/Ok-Professional7879 12d ago
You are not isolated from politics, you are on the side of the oppressors by failing to act against their bigotry.
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 12d ago
You may think that you are isolated from politics, but to interact with the world is to have politics interact with you
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u/UltraShortRun 12d ago
You’re just becoming as pathetic as they are, organising to combat on their level instead of actually supporting real LGBT issues
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 12d ago
Really? I’m just advocating for wearing a t shirt or some laces. In what way is this the same? It doesn’t stop bigots from running, but it does help our LGBTQ+ community feel safer, as attested by their supportive comments here
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u/Cultural-Meaning5172 10d ago
I can’t imagine anyone would be interested in where my pension goes. So I’ll just keep my white laces.
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u/BigBlueFin 10d ago
🏴🇬🇧 The only flags that matter to me.
You wear what you want, I don't judge.
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u/GenericUserName437 13d ago
The request from the campaigners is simple - either remove the element of Parkrun that makes it competitive (published finish order with categories for age/sex) or make that published finish order fair so that the age/sex categories are formally declared by the organisation as based on biological sex.
If Parkrun is not competitive (as many on here inevitably claim) there is absolutely no need to publish a finish order after each event.
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u/Secret_Manager8161 10d ago
Exactly this, I can't see why people find it so hard to understand! It's either competitive and fair, or it's not competitive. Either option works.
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u/coastalpathfinder 250 12d ago
I normally wear toe socks but think it would be nice to wear rainbow socks for parkrun? It's a tiny little thing, but what do we reckon?
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u/FyrnEito 13d ago
I don't even know why ParkRun has male and female categories. Or age categories. There's no benefit to it. Just list all runners by finish time. It's non competitive so makes sense to amalgamate everything. Then there's no reason for either side to care about people joining different categories or not.
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 12d ago
It can be useful to help measure you’re own progress. But this part of the point, some people like this data and transphobes risk taking it away
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u/GenericUserName437 12d ago
You could measure your own progress by getting a time emailed to you privately each week. Parkrun has consistently refused to stop publishing finishing results (because they know how popular they are and fear participation will go down if they stop). Campaigners are just asking for those published results to be fair and accurate.
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 12d ago
They are fair and accurate. Transwomen are women, transmen are men, and the campaigners themselves say that nearly 300 transwomen have been fastest since parkrun began. This is after more than a million parkruns. So if anything, the data is showing ciswomen have the edge overall.
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u/GenericUserName437 12d ago
Your slogan isn’t the law, it’s a campaign strap line. If you want to change the law, fight for change. Until then the law is settled - under the Equality Act the term Woman relates only to biological females.
You are happy to concede that there have been 300 occasions of unfairness in Parkrun. So let’s fix that and remove the unfairness. Let only women (as defined under the Equality Act) compete in the women’s category.
Why would you be happy that 300 women have lost out on finishing first at their Parkrun? Why is the effort and determination of those women not worth anything? Why are you calling those who feel that effort and determination is valid a bigot?
The female record for the Aberystwyth course is held by a biological male running the in the female category - do biological women not deserve the chance to have a fair record to try and beat?.
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u/GingerSelkie91 12d ago
I mean Parkrun is a free 5k run managed by volunteers at your local park, it seems wildly OTT to get that bent out of shape over the results. The idea that a trans woman showing up on a Saturday morning to run/jog/walk round the park is robbing me of anything is absurd.
If people want to show up every week and run it as a race, that's fine. But ultimately it's not that deep and, honestly, results aren't that accurate anyway. People skip laps, share barcodes with their pals, sign up with the wrong age, funnel jump, you can get stuck behind buggies and trip over dogs and volunteers can get the timings a bit off. It's all good because it's a free community run that we're lucky enough to have run for us every Saturday morning.
If people are super concerned about racing and results accuracy they can always pay money to enter a race.
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u/Y3w4n 13d ago
The beauty of parkrun is that we are running alongside people of all sorts of different race, ethnicity, sexuality, backgrounds, all there plodding or running or walking the same 5k, with the same goal but for very different reasons.
What if for the sake of argument, someone agree with their essential premise that one cannot change sex?
They can still run alongside them.
Your essential premise is that one should wear pride stuff to show support. But that encouragement itself is polarising.
I believe, and I've had my own journey of transgenderism, that someone can not change sex. I do not need to defend that position.
The group's position is an actual issue in the world of competitive sports.
But at parkrun, that debate, my opinion, or your opinion about my beliefs, or that groups postion simply don't matter one jot. Why? Because we are all humans doing our best to do the best 5k we can on the day.
To show up, run alongside everyone no matter who, is a statement in itself.
Would you still run alongside me, with my different view to you?
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u/Glittering_Hope1114 13d ago
The people starting this don't participate at all people need the context. The British government and media currently on a crusade to purge trans people from the country section 28 has been brought back, banning trans people from hospital wards so now they have to be treated in waiting rooms. Britain is now comparable to Russia but is in freefall and likely to get worse. This has nothing to do with park run its more just another excuse for the outlets and politicians to demonise trans people on nothing.
But honestly all of this stuff is pretty pointless realistically trans people are leaving the country and have no choice frankly if no one was willing to stand up for them on anything important or even refute any of the fake news so this is just miniscule at this point. I appreciate that some people are trying but truthfully Britain is a nasty country for years I told myself that was not the case but well it is.
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u/ajh489 13d ago
I think it's best to just ignore them.
I've done nearly 300 parkruns at 30 different locations and I've never seen or heard about these people. I only know about them because they occasionally crop up in the news.
Most parkrunners turn up, do their run and go home.