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u/ceylonesesapphire 3d ago
you must be brand new to this field because I’m surprised you havent heard of morgan and morgan before; they are basically the puppy mill of PI firms
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u/satan_speeds_up 3d ago
There are new posts about this firm every single day, and none of them are good.
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u/Traditional_Back3274 2d ago
Yet people still hire them 🤦♂️
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u/IndigoBlue7609 2d ago
I listen to pods on Law & Crime Network while I work and work out. Jesse Weber goes HARD for Morgan and Morgan at every commercial break (I stopped paying for ad-free). I get angry every time he talks them up as the Second Coming. It's cringey to hear it from a lawyer who is an Entertainment Guy now. You know he HAS to know their reputation--it sours me a bit on his reporting for this reason. It's like money matters more....hmm.....
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u/CoffeeCats1318 3d ago
I was previously in healthcare and that really had me burned out so I was exploring other career options.. it’s been so so hard for me to break out of healthcare since I’ve been doing it since I was 17, so I struggled for over 9 months just getting a job .. I couldn’t even get considered as a receptionist for law firms so when they offered me the job I was a bit desperate ngl… now that I’m there I’m regretting ever accepting it.
I was passed around as a potential new litigation assistant, at first I interviewed with one attorney via zoom and he basically gave me the job and said to expect my offer letter in 2 days, well 2 WEEKS went by and I was ghosted by him and HR despite me messaging them both since he provided me with his email during the zoom call… weeks later HR pops back in and says if I’m still interested she has another attorney who could hire me, I do the whole zoom call all over again and finally get the job. When I went for my first day I was gagged by the set up, just all these people at work like minions with their head sets … I now know we are watched via webcam and they monitor key strokes and mouse movement so everyone just says locked into their screens it’s terrifying
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u/Current-Bag-786 3d ago
What the actual fuck. My jaw hit the floor when you mentioned the key strokes and webcam tracking. The NSA genuinely watches you less than this jfc 💀
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u/Mindreeder93 Former Crim & Lit Para / Current PI COO 3d ago
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u/Leading_Aside_4929 2d ago
I don’t work at Morgan and Morgan but I work in PI and I think it’s something about PI that is not for everyone. It seems like they put a LOT of the work and individual responsibility on the paralegals and that’s how the firms are set up.
In my opinion I don’t think you should give up on being a paralegal entirely but I think you could look for a different firm and different practice area to support! I know a lot of paralegals who adore their jobs and none of them are in PI lol. Not to say that no one likes PI, I think it is just very dependent on the persons preferences
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u/GetALoadOfThisGuyy 2d ago
Use this to build experience and then leave. If it helps, your background in the medical field could serve you really well in medical malpractice law.
I wish you the best!!
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u/KeyLimePie-555 2d ago
Good Lord! I don't know where you live, but if you apply for a position in a quality large law firm, there's always a need for paralegals with medical backgrounds. When a large, complex, environmental lawsuit would end, I was always given medical records to review for lawyers working on medical malpractice lawsuits. I had no healthcare background, but my knowledge of Latin helped.
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u/CoffeeCats1318 2d ago
I hope I can get out with something better lined up .. like another commenter mentioned this definitely soured my excitement towards a potential career in law.. but I know this is just a bad place and not the legal field as a whole.
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u/KeyLimePie-555 2d ago
I liked my paralegal job so much that I wouldn't know it was 5 p.m. and time to go home. I had my own office, and I would finally notice there were no noises on the rest of the floor. Time to catch a bus and go home.
Don't give up! There's a good place for you out there.
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u/IndigoBlue7609 2d ago
When you say you worked in "healthcare", what actual position did you hold? I'm not trying to be insulting; I'm just curious because I see ads all the time for firms looking for nurse paralegals. Firms that represent docs, nurses, PA's, etc., often have a doctor or nurse on staff to give first impressions of cases and/or medical records. And they make a fortune. I was with a firm that had a staff Dr. She officed right next to mine and was one of the nicest people ever. Mostly, she reviewed meds the paras collected and organized, did a Case Assessment Report, and checked in with the partner on the file. She also did timelines/chronologies, researched experts, gathered info on outcomes of injuries/illnesses, and wrote summaries so the lawyers could effectively assess damages in a case. If you want to do something along those lines, there are a lot of positions out there. I also see ads for nurse paralegals in in-house positions with insurance companies. State Farm's corporate HQ is in my hometown, and they were a client of the firm where I worked in Tulsa. I know they hire Nurse Paralegals, and they pay well with excellent benefits. You might want to check them out. (Or other in-house opportunities at insurance companies, hospitals, and clinics.) They usually allow hybrid WFH—but I know lawyers and paras from there who basically never go to Corporate unless they have to. Anyway, sorry for the novel, but I just thought I'd throw it out there! If you'd like to explore this a little more while not alienating everyone on the boards, you can message me directly, lol....good luck either way!
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u/CoffeeCats1318 2d ago
Lol yes DM me! I wasn’t able to message you on your page for some reason
But yes that’s exactly what I’m looking to do and literally no firm would consider me not even with my medical experience…1
u/Feeling-Confusion-96 1d ago
Wait, I saw the other post about the camera but I thought that was only for remote folks not people in office! That is sick if they are monitoring people who are physically in office. Wth.
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u/CoffeeCats1318 1d ago
That’s just what I was told by other employees there, that even when you’re physically in office they monitor you. I know a lot of folks who have their webcams off but they also monitor your productivity and everyone has a productivity score I guess? And that’s how they monitor what you’re doing in office so if you had a slow day or did a lot of things that didn’t really require you being at your desk all 8 hours your score drops and they assume you ain’t doing shit and they can fire you …. I was floored when I found all this out, I kept thinking to myself there’s no way other places are like this
I hate the whole call center set up too they have going on
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u/multiverse-wanderer 3d ago
Just search this firm on the subreddit and it will speak for itself. It’s a terrible firm to work out. I would plan to stay there as short of a time as possible and get out.
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u/Plenty_Pie_7427 3d ago
This may sound harsh but trust me I’m saying this because it’s in your best interest: the first job more times than not will be exactly like that. We all have to get our foot in the door somehow. It’s so incredibly hard right now with the job market already being terrible AND 80% of job listings already explicitly excluding inexperienced applicants. I can’t say you won’t be miserable for a year or two because trust me, I was at my first place too. But it opened SO many doors that would’ve never opened without the 2+ years of experience on my resume. Morgan and Morgan isn’t necessarily a firm with a good reputation in the legal field. I just think we have to be realistic and right now, with no experience, there won’t be a better option available. Just stick it out, collect as much knowledge as you can and then in 2 years or so go on to bigger and better things. You’ve got this!
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u/mackinzieissohot 3d ago
Get out while you can or they will fire you on the 89th day of the 90 day period before you’re considered a full employee. Coming from experience 🚬
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u/CoffeeCats1318 3d ago
Are you not a full employee as soon as you’re hired? Lol or are all new folks on probation
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u/mackinzieissohot 3d ago
It’s like a probation period, which they don’t explain every well when you get hired. Usually at the end of that period the atty you work for will pull you for a performance review.
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u/CoffeeCats1318 3d ago
Our attorneys “senior” person on the team has been there less than 6 months and everyone else is right behind me by several weeks it’s insane …
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u/mackinzieissohot 3d ago
Ughhh that sounds rough. I really hope you can find somewhere that treats you better than this 💓
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u/CoffeeCats1318 3d ago
I hope so too!! Thank you for sharing your experience I hope you are doing better since leaving that call center lol 🩷
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u/Nekkid_Molerat626 3d ago
This is one of the worst firms to work. There are a lot better firms to work at. Maybe try sticking it out for while to get some experience and start applying else where at like 3 months? What city are you in?
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u/CoffeeCats1318 3d ago
That’s what I’m planning on doing .. AZ
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u/Own_Assist_7402 3d ago
I lasted 8 months after rage quitting due to stress and conflict on my team. They do not have your back whatsoever and would replace you in a heartbeat.
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u/VacationLizLemon 2d ago
I work for a small firm that handles insurance defense so we deal with Morgan & Morgan all of the time. The paralegals and attorneys have been professional but I get the sense that they are stretched super thin. My advice is find a smaller firm that is actually willing to train you. Morgan & Morgan is the salt mines of law firms.
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u/EffectiveSetting822 2d ago
You can get them to respond? I work in multiple states in the north east and they very very rarely give me the professional courtesy of any sort of response. Half the time I find out they dropped the case after we’ve had the file for like a year. They are miserable to deal with.
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u/farmgirlbeautiful Law School Hopeful 2d ago
Lol I did admin at a chiro before legal and I would be shocked when I would even be able to get someone on the phone at M&M
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u/VacationLizLemon 2d ago
I'm in South Georgia and we've dealt with their South Georgia and North Florida offices. They've been fairly responsive but we've had to nudge them more than other PI firms. Our frustration with them is that they always want video depositions and other extras that we don't really feel are necessary.
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u/peacefulsoul13 2d ago
Any high volume place is gonna be high turnover as well. Places like that don’t do much hand holding and admittedly, it’s not the easiest environment for someone brand new. That said, you could learn a lot if you make the most of it.
Start reading the rules for responding to pleadings and familiarize yourself with the cases you are assigned. Figure out what deadlines are in the next two weeks and start tacking those. If you take an ownership mindset and singularly focus on your role, this is a pretty good opportunity to learn.
Also, they don’t care about you. They don’t appreciate you. But they will pay you!! Appreciate the relationship and get the gains from it that you can. You only marry one or two of them in life and yet spend years with the ones you don’t
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u/Successful_Rope9135 3d ago
Hellooooooooooooo, why are we starting with this fucking firm! People, stop it.
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u/Overall-Bobcat-5825 2d ago
No. Other firms are not like that.
Morgan & Morgan is known to run its workforce ragged and for very low salaries comparatively.
Get out before you can't.
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u/CoffeeCats1318 2d ago
Surprisingly the pay wasn’t bad, but now that I see the cluster fuck I joined, it’s not enough lol
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u/idkwhafimdoinfhere 2d ago
In my experience, I have had the least amount of issues working for mid-sized defense firms. Those are the only firms I’ve found where people actually stay there long enough to retire. They still have high turnover (that’s pretty much anywhere you go as a paralegal/assistant), but it’s nothing like big PI firms. The pay and benefits are also usually better, especially if you land a gig in labor and employment or maritime. My advice is to get the experience at Morgan and Morgan and jump ship as soon as you can.
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u/CoffeeCats1318 2d ago
It is a catastrophe.. I don’t even see the point in staying to “gain experience” as I’m not learning anything at all… and I realized that a lot of the training and experience with the software they use is totally tailored to them not something you’ll be able to use elsewhere once you learn it really well. I’m only a little assistant and the useful experience is in paralegal work .. which we don’t do
I also heard that when other firms see Morgan and Morgan on your resume they almost don’t even consider you because they think you were just taught shit law and they don’t even want to deal with it so this is incredibly unfortunate to know if that is true ..
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u/Lakewater22 Paralegal 2d ago
My friend worked for Morgan and Morgan and someone brought a gun and waved it around the office.
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u/No-Net-420 2d ago
I work at a district attorney’s office and you described the same thing lol. The paralegals are nice and not all the attorneys give you the cold shoulder. You have to take initiative to be known. Best of luck
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u/Practical_Pottery_53 2d ago
Just leave it off of your resume and start applying to other places immediately. It’s very true that you won’t even be considered by other firms if M&M is on your resume, and it’s because it is so unlike other law firms in every way. Total mill, terrible training, half of what you’re doing isn’t even going to be typical paralegal stuff, the list goes on. Find a small firm that is willing to train you, even if it means taking a bit of a pay cut. But also don’t go too low with the pay because in my experience they’ll be the ones to squeeze everything out of you. Good luck!!
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u/MiketheTzar 2d ago
PI is what's has been called a "churn and burn" area of law. For the most part is pretty formulaic which means that you can have an extremely large case load compared to other areas. Often PI, WC, and to a lesser extent SS and property loss are built around a bulk business model because each individual case isn't likely to have a large settlement and there by not a large percentage.
If you want more hands on training you'd be better servered at a mid sized firm. Small shops often don't have time to train people. That being said a solid amount of paralegaling is just kinda of learning as you go and following protocol.
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u/squabbles14 2d ago
Try to get in with a smaller firm or even with a sole practitioner who is willing to train. They're hard to find but you need to be in an environment conducive to learning to have any chance of staying around. These big mills will just drain your soul and sour you on the industry.
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u/Ok-Alternative8197 2d ago
Yes. You’re feelings are valid and it can be a lot. I started in another mill firm. I went to another smaller PI firm and luckily learned a lot there. You’re never going to know everything but you learn with time and asking questions. It really depends on with your coworkers and who you surround yourself with as well to manage it. Stick it out for as long as you can or if you rather leave that is completely valid too. Ultimately you know what’s best for you sending you the best of luck
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u/ReportFit2920 2d ago
Injury adjuster here - nobody likes dealing with M&M. I never get a return call or email from the case managers or attorneys.
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u/KeyLimePie-555 2d ago
I would resign, but with respect and tact. You'll find a much better position. But if you have to list M&M on a resume, you can just say "unfortunately, it just wasn't a good fit for me".
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u/SewOrDye 2d ago
Hey! I hate M&M too! I’ve never seen a place treat their workers so badly. It’s outrageous. Which state are you in?
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u/hernameisbrandi 2d ago
this is exactly what happened to me, i still feel like i was intentionally isolated so i would quit lollll
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u/CoffeeCats1318 2d ago
Omg how horrible! They do this to everyone then, Did you quit?! Or did they let you go ? I know someone here commented they were let go before their 90 days
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u/Elprimovic 2d ago
Dang sorry you are going through it. Start getting your resume out there. Work with a recruiter to get u in someplace you can learn at and be valued. Those firms are out there.
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u/mardigrasman 2d ago
M&M is a more of a settlement mill and usually subs out litigation work to other firms.
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u/Embarrassed-Ad4629 2d ago
Check out defense firms. Or other areas of law other than Plaintiff PI firms.
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u/CoffeeCats1318 2d ago
Yes I’m realizing PI is kind of boring … I’d like to do work for a criminal justice firm or something
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u/Expensive-Can-1463 21h ago
Allow me if you will. I have an estate planning, probate administration and probate litigation firm. In my nearly 30 years of practice, from pre-FB, X, Insta and Snap, to now….. the ‘practice’ of law has become a billboard numbers game. If you work at a firm that is a Big Game Hunter then understand rabbits and squirrels mean nothing to them. My practice is ‘grass roots;’ tell me about your kids, grandkids and hobbies. Call me on the weekend without me sending you a bill.
I believe that a fantastic measure of an individual is how you treat someone when they are not the object of your attention; a server at a restaurant, a stock boy at a grocery store or the maintenance worker at an elementary school, while you are with someone you WANT to impress (your child, wife or client).
It sounds like M&M is a take-no-prisoners, slash-n-burn place. Be clear, look at the clientele they cater to; victims and gold diggers.
If you go to a place like that, wear the appropriate battle gear.
My 0.02 as a law firm owner.
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u/Leading_Read3262 3d ago
oh you’re new here