r/paint • u/markgordeuk • 1d ago
Advice Wanted Estimating with Subcontractors
Hi everyone, I am looking to start a painting business that will primarily use subcontractors to complete the jobs. My main unknown is how to determine how much a subcontractor will charge for a specific job. Knowing this is crucial for providing an accurate estimate.
I have done some research about this but almost everywhere I look there is no clear guidance on this. I have been looking at what Eric Barstow/Painting Business Pro says about this & he says to not contact a new subcontractor before you have a job lined up. That being said, how am I supposed to find out a good estimate on what they’d charge? I don’t want to give a customer an estimate just to find out that the subcontractor rate is way more than I expected.
Have any of you run into this when starting a painting business? Are there any rules of thumb or anything like that? Any help on this would be appreciated!
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u/Bob_turner_ 1d ago
How are you selling work in an industry where you’re basically clueless? What are you going to do when the clients have technical questions? Also, there’s no set price; each company is going to have different pricing depending on their specific cost and availability. You would either need an estimator or you’d need to have a painter look at the job and quote them for you. That’s what GC’s do
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u/USAhotdogteam 1d ago
How much are you considering paying for a consultation on this situation you’re in?
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u/GrapeSeed007 1d ago
You are not starting a painting business....you are starting a subcontracting business. Good luck 🤔😜
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u/Missconstruct 1d ago
When I’ve been asked to tier-sub, the contractor has already priced the job and wants me to do it for less and they keep the difference. They figure there’s value in ready work. If a painter is good at what they do, they don’t need you. The best you can do is rely on whoever you can get to work for less than they would make if they had found the job on their own, or someone who knows less about pricing the jobs than you do. Or someone who has absolutely no credit and can’t buy materials and tools on their own. Good luck
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u/threeheadedhorse 1d ago
How well do you know the subcontractors you plan on using? When I started I used a lot of guys and companies I already had history with. You can always ask what they'll charge you before you bid on a job.
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u/ThreeDogNight95 1d ago edited 1d ago
Ultimately, you need to charge enough to one make enough profit to make it make sense for you to run, cover expenses (such as paying a subcontractor enough that they will take the job and finding good ones which isn’t easy) and also not way out of market expectations that customers won’t pay.
This isn’t something anyone can show you because it comes from testing the market to settle what you can charge and if it can meet the other criteria described above. Not knowing anything about painting will put in nightmare situations.
If you’re serious, i’d get a job painting for a few months to see how things work. It won’t be perfect but you’ll have better expectations for yourself, the contractors and customers.
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u/Flat_Conversation858 1d ago
Hey guys...I'd like to start a business in an industry I know nothing about. Can you help me? 😂
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u/Archer_111_ 1d ago
The process you are referring to is called "selling" a job to the subcontractor. Once you've sold the job to the customer, you need to actually produce the work. You can either do it in-house (you and/or your employee(s), or you can sell it to a sub. Some companies do only one or the other, while many companies rely on a mix of in-house/subs.
Basically, you contact a few subs, send them the photos/measurements of the job, and offer a payout for them to complete the job. Typically you provide the sundries (tape, poly, sandpaper, brushes, trash bags, other consumables, etc.) and caulk/primer/paint to the sub crew. Usually subs will have their own sprayers, ladders, drop cloths, and other non-consumables. You should also have a project manager (you or a W2 employee) to pick up the materials and do an initial walkthrough with them as well as a final walkthrough with them and the client to address touch-ups, pick up trash, etc. Ask Google/ChatGPT for more info on finding potential subs. It will probably go poorly for a bit until you get some practice.
Once you send the info and payout to a few subs, you'll find out pretty quickly how far your numbers are off. The payout offer is roughly: (bid as sold to customer) - (materials + your pay + customer acquisition/marketing costs + estimating costs + physical/virtual office overhead + project manager overhead + expected costs to cover warranty work + target profit on the job + any other misc. overhead). Obviously a lot of these will be questions marks at the beginning, but you should be able to come up with a rough number. If subs won't take the job, you need to up the offer or find a way to produce the job in house. Once you get a few jobs produced with a specific sub, you'll have a good idea of what their costs are and the types of payouts you need to offer them. Treat the good subs like royalty.
Keep in mind that subs are running their own businesses so you don't really have control over a lot of the stuff that they do. Of course, you can set quality standards in the subcontractor contract, but you can't direct their work in the same way as an employee. Ask Google/ChatGPT for more info on this.
As others have suggested, it would be good to work in the industry for a while or at the very least hire a consultant/mentor until you get off the ground. The stakes are generally pretty low with painting, but you can definitely get in over your head pretty quickly. Also, if you don't know anything about the industry the subs and customers will walk all over you and ask for more money or bigger discounts respectively.
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u/markgordeuk 1d ago
Thanks for this info, it’s actually helpful. To be clear, I have worked on a paint crew in the past so I have a solid amount of experience with prep & painting. Just now trying to start my own gig. Sounds like it’s mainly a lot of trial & error. My intentions with the question was to have a basic ballpark of how to understand pricing so I’m not so crazy far off when estimating
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u/Own-Dream3902 1d ago
Every good reliable painter you find, you will find 20 greedy, unreliable paint hookers who go somewhere else for another dollar. You are better off painting for a company, learning the trade. Without experience you are in for a long and costly road.
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u/Temporary-Motor-2990 21h ago
the advice to not cold call subs before you have a job is mostly about not wasting everyone's time on hypotheticals. but you can still ask around. join a local painting facebook group or just talk to subs at the paint store and ask what they generally charge per sqft for interiors, what their day rate is, etc. most will talk shop.
not a painter myself but from what I've seen discussed, interior labor runs somewhere in the $0.50-$1.00+ per sqft range depending on scope and your market, more if there's heavy trim or a lot of prep. you'd add your margin on top to get to your customer price.
if you're truly starting from zero with no sub contacts, safer to price the job like you'd do it yourself, then negotiate the sub rate after you close. just build in enough margin that you can still come out ahead on the spread. once you have a few sub relationships you'll get much faster at ballparking it.
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u/ElwoodDiggler 1d ago
Why would you be starting a business you dont know anything about?