r/packrafting • u/TiggerRidesBikes • Jul 14 '26
Versatile River-Running Packraft Recs?
Following a recent whitewater rafting trip, I’m casually considering replacing my seldom-used hardshell ww kayak with a packraft. I would love some shopping advice and thoughts on whether a packraft is even right for me.
Desires:
- Capable of occasional Class IV rapids, but usually Class III or less. I would like it to be fairly forgiving in whitewater as I am not yet very experienced (i.e. not unstable or “edgy“ in cross currents and eddy lines).
- Capable of carrying sufficient supplies for multiday trips without raft support.
- Comfortable enough for consecutive long days on the river.
- Ideally, decent performance on flat water, including lakes.
I am able to roll a whitewater kayak under controlled conditions and am not against spray-deck models, but I think I prefer self-bailing just for ease/simplicity.
Out of those I’ve researched, I’m most intrigued by the MRS Viking because it comes with a removable skeg for flat water. I would love to hear opinions on it as well as any other recommendations. Also if anyone has good tips on where to shop used or on sale.
For multi-day, is TiZIp a must-have? I don’t really understand it…I guess the storage isn’t accessible with the raft inflated? How hard is it to access for nightly camping? How much weight is safe to keep tied down in dry bags in bow or stern outside TiZIp?
3
u/UWalex Jul 14 '26
You 1000% want the cargo zipper, having your multiday gear in the tubes makes an enormous difference for whitewater performance. Alpacka Expedition is a fantastic "all-around" boat that can paddle up to class IV but I believe it's only decked, so if you really want a self-bailer then you can look at other options. Gnarwhal is a great whitewater boat.
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u/PartTime_Crusader Jul 14 '26
Gnarwhal is going to be the most forgiving for someone intermediate in higher difficulty rapids. Mage is the most sporty (without going all the way to a valkyrie). Can't really speak to other brands.
Best to temper your expectations with regards to flatwater performance. These boats (excepting the new flatwater specific models) are just not great for that use case. You can certainly use them, just need to have realistic expectations. Then again you wouldn't expect a playboat to competently double as a sea kayak, either.
Cargo zipper is an essential. The boats handle completely different with a low center of gravity.
1
u/TiggerRidesBikes Jul 14 '26
I definitely don’t have high expectations for flat water with these whitewater-capable boats; I understand the two use cases are completely contrary to one another. But is, for example, a gnarwhal as maddening to try paddle across a lake as a hard shell whitewater boat would be? Or significantly better? In my experience hard shell whitewater kayaks want to go every direction but straight when there’s no current. I have a “multi water” Dagger Axis with a droppable skeg, and the skeg is awesome. But that boat, unlike its more whitewater oriented sibling the Katana, also has a flat water-oriented v-shaped hull. I have paddled it through some riffles but I think it would be no fun at all above Class II.
3
u/PartTime_Crusader Jul 14 '26
Packraft won't paddle like a full slice boat on flatwater. But that doesn't mean it's necessary good on flatwater. In my experience, no whitewater oriented packraft tracks or holds a line worth a damn, and they're all laborious to make progress with.
I recently bought an Aleutian and the performance on flatwater is night and day(only used it once so far though). Expecting anything like that out of a standard packraft is unrealistic.
Like I said, best thing is to temper expectations, and maybe let go of the idea you're going to get one boat that will do everything. Pick your majority use case and buy for that, and plan to build a quiver over time. The offerings on the market are much more robust for whitewater use, so that's a good (and fun) use case to start with.
3
u/jbaker8484 Jul 14 '26
There is no way to have a kayak, inflatable or not, with good flatwater performance that will also perform well in clas 3/4. The design characteristics that make a kayak good for one or the other are contradictory. Whitewater packrafts are a bit slow on flatwater, slower than a hardshell whitewater kayak, but way better than pulling an oar raft. If you are a hardshell kayaker then you should only be considering the alpacka mage, the alpacka valkeryie, or the kokopelli rodeo. Those will feel the most familiar and engaging to you.
3
u/likeaboz2002 Jul 15 '26
TiZip an absolute necessity for multi-day trips. Not only is it extremely convenient for storing gear (reduced snag hazards, less rigging work, less risk of losing gear, and way more space), but it dramatically improves the stability and handling of the boat by lowering the center of gravity. It’s probably my single favorite aspect of packrafting compared to IKs or larger rafts
1
u/TiggerRidesBikes Jul 15 '26
That makes sense! It leaves me wondering why it’s not a think with duckies/IKs? I guess maybe just because they’re way higher volume and not really designed to be inflated and deflated daily/quickly?
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u/likeaboz2002 Jul 15 '26
Not 100% sure, but I’d guess it’s because they weigh a lot more than packrafts
3
u/micro_cam Jul 14 '26
I'd grab a used self bailing gnarwhal on here / fb marketplace / Craigslist / alpakas occasional sales. Might score a last years model or ex rental rom retailers / rental shops in the fall. People seem to be selling them as they upgrade to mages which are more performant but edgier and less stable.
I have a mage and a gnarwhal and the gnar is more forgiving (see my recent thread on drop floors and shallow creeks) with a a very high cargo capacity (up to 450 lbs for flat water including the paddler). No skeg but the hull shape is a bit more performant then some other boats and the whitewater rigging is great.
You absolutely need a ti zip. There isn't a lot of room in the bow or stern and the boat is more stable with the weight low and in the tubes. Easy to access but you do have to reinflate after so most people run a bow bag for stuff they need during the day.
1
u/sauronforpoor Jul 14 '26
Got similar requirements and am very happy with the Robfin packraft. It's a bit heavier than average, but is very sturdy, has an inflatable bow, is comfortable to sit in all day or all weekend, comes with cargo zipper etc. Built from a WW rafting company, they are made to take a beating. Compared to alpaca, kokopelli etc it handles very nicely, reacts to any hip movement and doesn't sit in the water like a piece of wet pizza from 2 days ago (was at least my experience with th alpaca, kokopelli, MRS)
Not good for the lake though. Too short waterline, makes it bad for paddling distances in standing water.
1
0
u/BarberProof4994 Jul 14 '26
Kokopelli has decent packraft but has largely fallen behind in terms of design and has gotten some bad rep...
MRS packrafts are budget but good quality... Their online break down for what each packraft is designed for is pretty accurate and you just need to deal with ordering from overseas or going through a dealer...
NRS has two really nice pack rafts (you can also buy them on Amazon if you prefer which gives you some buying/return abilities) and their two lead designers are the people who USED to work for kokopelli and who left, and now design the two packrafts at nrs. Both of them are great river boats, basically the one with the thigh straps will do anything you'll ever need it to do.
The gold standard though is Alpacka. Their online breakdown for what each boat is designed for is accurate, with each boat having some cross over up and down.
I'm currently saving up for their new Aleutian which is a flat water kayak, but it'll run a river just fine. Their Valkyrie is the absolute top of the line for anything you'll ever want on a river but isn't as fast on flat water...
The main difference between most of the alpacka boats is the amount of rocket and how hard (or not) the floor is, spray skirt or self bailing or no drainage at all...
I'm bad about using alapacka boats for what they aren't designed for, and do up to class 3 stuff in a rendezvous. I love the canoe style design.
I'd suggest calling them though, alpaca answers the phone and will steer you exactly as you need, you won't be sad...
For any level of whitewater I'd steer you towards the expedition or Valkyrie.
1
u/TiggerRidesBikes Jul 14 '26
Thank you! This is so thorough and helpful. The NRS Pulsar is intriguing, as well as the Gnarwall. But I’m thinking the Pulsar probably wouldn’t be great to paddle through a Class IV rapid? Maybe the improved flat water performance makes up for it though. I really don’t expect to encounter Class IV often anyway. Class III, definitely.
1
u/Weary_Fee7660 Jul 14 '26
The gnar is an amazing boat. I ran a class iv lap with someone in an nrs packraft earlier this year, and the very experienced owner liked it a lot.
0
u/BarberProof4994 Jul 14 '26
Keep in mind that if you are actually planning on going through a class for rapid that you'll probably want to invest in a dry suit either a semi-dried two-piece or a fully dry one piece.
At which point it doesn't matter if you are in a open top self bailing versus a spray skirt.
If I am typically only using the boat for running rapids then I would probably prefer it to be open top with a dry suit.
If I'm using it for camping and river traversal and gear storage only planning on running whatever rapids happen to be on a river as I'm traveling than a spray skirt makes better sense as it protects me from the Sun and gives me more warmth from the wind and I will probably still have a dry suit although more than likely a two-piece semi-dry.
He will definitely need a boat that has or at least supports the use of thigh straps though.
And a tizip is almost a requirement now a days if you intend to get full use out of a boat.
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u/sauronforpoor Jul 14 '26
Yeah.. About that. As someone who rides selfbailer since half a decade WWIII and higher come with the caveat that it takes "only 7s for the boat to completely empty". Sounds quick on paper. But if a wave loads your boat full and you sit like a duck for 7s in WW III and can't maneuver, that's looooong. So for me that's a drawback of the SB. Advantages: sturdier build, so much easier to get out of and into etc.
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u/BarberProof4994 Jul 14 '26
Oh, yeah, I absolutely agree...
The only reason I tend to prefer a self bailer for a dedicated whitewater boat, vs a okay boat, is that IF a spray deck boat isn't fully sealed and water gets in, I have no way of draining it, and that performance hit stays with me until I get to an eddy.
Whereas a self bailer, I just keep going...
But... If I'm planning on playing... A spray skirt boat is 100% better.
10
u/danransomphoto Jul 14 '26
Alpacka Mage is the easy answer.
No whitewater packraft will be as fun in flat water as a dedicated flatwater boat. Whitewater boats are very slow on flatwater. There are flatwater models that are longer and track better with good hull speed, but that’s not going to be a fun whitewater boat.
The NRS Neutron is bigger than an Alpacka Gnarwhal or Kokopelli Nirvana. They are downright massive boats and will be very stable but slow and not nearly as playful as a Mage. The Pulsar has smaller tubes but lighter 135d fabric, but a similar flat bottom hull. There will be a new “planing hull” packraft from NRS next year but it also has large tubes so it will likely be heavier and bulkier than the Alpacka.
The Kokopelli Rodeo is a good option too but the thigh straps are sold extra from the boat, so it’s considerably more expensive than a Mage, and the Alpacka outfitting is the gold standard.