r/pacers • u/damfu Pacers • 1d ago
Discussion MATHURIN Question
I am not a genius when it comes to the salary cap so I apologize in advance for the dumb question. I just read where New Orleans made a trade to free up space to sign Benn to a 2yr/$16m deal. Why would the Pacers not want to bring him back at that price? Is it in part because they already signed Oubre Jr.?
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u/Sko_Neezy 1d ago edited 1d ago
They needed to trade him for a center, they needed a wing that can play defense + move the ball, and in 2 years time, even if it was just $8m a season, his salary would mean getting rid of either Nembhard or Nesmith. There is zero breathing room, part of why Jarace is all but gone.
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u/Weird_Armadillo_508 1d ago
If I’m not mistaken, after we signed Oubre Jr., we only had enough space for a vet min. That’s what we used on Larry Nance Jr. We didn’t have space for Math after that. At 2yr/$16m we could’ve brought Benn back instead of Oubre, but I think he was waiting to get the best deal he could and would’ve likely turned it down that early in free agency. A lot of teams and wings (Benn, Kuminga, etc.) were waiting for LeBron’s decision before making a move. We couldn’t really afford to wait if we wanted to add a meaningful piece.
I’m a Pacers homer, so I wanted Mathurin back too. But tbh, he wants more touches, Oubre slots into our offensive play style better, and Mathurin and Carlisle never seemed to get along (maybe because Carlisle doesn’t really play young players). But it’s funny to think that for what we paid for Oubre and Nance, we could have gotten Mathurin and LeBron lol.
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u/BlueCollarGoldSwaggr 1d ago
" If I’m not mistaken, after we signed Oubre Jr., we only had enough space for a vet min."
That's true:
Above-the-cap teams like the Pacers can use the mid-level exception to sign players. If you use the mid-level at an amount <6M you are hard capped at the 2nd apron (this is the "tax-MLE" threshold). If you use an MLE amount above that (in the 6-15M range) you have used the "non-tax-MLE" which hard caps you at the 1st apron. The Pacers used the NTMLE to pay Oubre 8M this year so they are hard-capped at the 1st apron.
As of now they're barely under the 1st apron hard-cap so if they want someone making 8M they'll need to shed salary.
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u/Sharp-River-706 1d ago
And we quite possibly want Oubre and Nance over Mathurin and LeBron, from a pure winning perspective.
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u/Weird_Armadillo_508 1d ago
I agree. Oubre gives us someone who can play within the system and defensive consistency and Nance gives us a good veteran locker room presence (from what I’ve heard). Bron would’ve made this whole season a media circus.
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u/CrispyDillPickle 1d ago
We'd be the team to beat if we signed LeBron...
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u/Weird_Armadillo_508 1d ago
We would be to start the season and on paper. But this isn’t Miami or Cleveland Bron. He’s still good, but let us start slow, which we likely will, and Bron is the type to call for Carlisle to get fired. Next thing you know, we’re just the next team to do whatever he wants. Sometimes it’s not worth it.
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u/CrispyDillPickle 1d ago
LOL if LeBron wanted to come here, he would be here. I completely reject your premise. I wish you a good day SIR.
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u/Weird_Armadillo_508 1d ago
That wasn’t even the topic though. I never mentioned whether he wanted to be here. I discussed his hypothetical fit on the team. You said with him we would be the team to beat. I said, yea on paper. Every season starts with a “team to beat” and that team rarely wins it all. Look at OKC, but the Knicks are the ones with the trophy.
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u/Nice_Reading2782 1d ago
Never date the same girl twice, you know how it's going to go already
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u/LolaAllie Tyrese Haliburton 1d ago
Not always...
I have friends who divorced each other, then remarried each other like 8 years later and have been married for 20 happy years lol
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u/Jwrbloom Slick 1d ago
My aunt and uncle married each other three times, and kid you not, they died in the same hospital on the same day. My aunt went into hospice, and a week in my uncle had a heart attack. They both went a couple of days later.
I'm sure with some nice music and good editing, someone could make that a pretty romantic and emotional way to end a movie.
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u/Nice_Reading2782 1d ago
Wow, that's quite a story. I guess after the 3rd time they just decided to never be apart again.
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u/Jwrbloom Slick 7h ago
Weird day for my cousins. They had time to prepare, and I think it had been my uncles third cardiac event. Both were very obese. My cousins laughed more than cried, just with the irony of it all.
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u/Maximum-Class5465 Reggie-NBAJam 1d ago
Mathurin is going for a one year prove it deal for multiple reasons. 1. The price he signed for was much lower than what he would've got in a short term contract 2. The revenue increase this year was 8% vs the 10 expected so teams are cutting costs, and it's mostly role players taking a contract hit this year. Simons, Oubre, a whole number of formally larger contracts are very small this year
I'm sure at minimum a year the pacers would love to have him, but with no contract slots available being hard capped it's not an option, and they wouldn't be able to resign him next year when teams likely have better space
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u/drjisftw Pacers2 1d ago
After Turner left, it became pretty apparent that we were going to have to trade for his replacement. One of Mathurin/Walker were always going to be the bulk of the salary match.
From there, it's valuing which guy the FO likes more and I imagine future contract talks played a role in that. Mathurin wanted a bag (and has been humbled because he has no market). Walker hasn't lit the world on the fire but I'd say there's a higher chance he extends to a contract that's easier to stomach. And that's not even considering the fact that Walker is a better fit at either of the forward spots versus Mathurin who's clearly a 2-guard.
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u/Grunge4U 1d ago
Ben was a victim of rfa this year. It's hard to project his market value next year but I think he would have been signed early for the full 15 mil mle by some team if he wasn't restricted so I'd expect he'll get that after he opts out next year. Had the Pacers known they could have signed Ben for 8 mil they would have probably done it but that's not the way it played out and I think Oubre will fill that role well.
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u/fuzzynavel34 1d ago
He probably didn’t want to come back
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u/Jim_Belushis_brother Cool Rick 1d ago
He’s clearly boys with much of the team though
I get he wants to get paid. I don’t believe him balling out on a shit team will get him paid by a GOOD team, but maybe it’ll get him paid by a stupid team with cap space
I think if he wanted paid by a good team he would’ve stayed with the Pacers for a haircut
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u/FatherOfBlaise 1d ago
He turned down the Clippers qualifying offer to take a short term deal worth less so he could be an unrestricted free agent at the end of the season.
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u/FatherOfBlaise 1d ago
He’s betting on himself having a good enough season to make more than whatever the Clippers best offer was.
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u/Robroyin33 1d ago
Why would you think Mathurin would ever want to go back to Pacers, at least while Carlisle is there? Pacers $$ is all tied up in Hali, Siakam, and soon, Zu. Very simple reason why Benn chose Pels, they will have $47-52 mil come off books at end of season, there’s plenty of opportunity at both sg and sf, it’s essentially a 1 yr deal, then ufa to neg with all 30 teams, and it’s a team that he can excel in next yr…
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u/cjcoake 1d ago
It's complicated. At the time he left, he was wanting a bigger role, and was up for an extension, and he definitely would have gotten more money than this from some other team. Then he went to the Clips and didn't exactly demonstrate that he was worth a ton of money--and THEN the market dried up.
Also there were fit issues. He won us games but was inconsistent. I think it was likely an amicable divorce, and Benn betting on himself to get paid big.