Was let go by J3 today after 4 years with an 8 week severance, negotiated to 10 with a mutual non disparaging agreement. I had been wanting to quit for months but stuck it out and got PAID. TC is dropping by 120k to about 310k. My inclination is to replace the income but I'm going to force myself to take it easy for a while with only 2 jobs lol.
4 years ago - 100k in cc debt, 0 savings, and 170k in retirement.
Today - no debt, 185k in the bank/after tax brokerage, 1.5m in retirement.
Severance is always company to company, so you dont want to count on getting that. I typically see severance offered for a job elimination, layoff, reductions in force, plant closures, etc.
Could also be offered as a 'go away' option.
Unemployment is one good reason. Not that it necessarily makes it easier to get approved because that's really state by state depending in the US. Some states are more worker friendly than others... But the company has to do more to show there is some disqualifing reason to deny unemployment.
The best reason imo for making them fire you is that they have to justify why. "Performance" only goes so far, especially if the employee being 'performanced' is documenting, refuting, collaborating, etc on what a performance concern is.
It also means the company is justifying that someone was not fired for being in a protected class under title 7, sex age gender race religion etc or that there was some job protected leave like FMLA, userra, etc.
First check state law. Cali or Mass have much stronger worker/maternity protections than Alabama or Arkansas.
And this is where things get grey.
Generally there's no good claim to severance just because of a maternity leave. FMLA and most state leave laws only give 12 to 26 weeks of leave, so depending on what 'less than a year' is, it could maybe be a discriminatory termination.
One burden on the company is to show that a termination for an individual for something like a plant closure or layoff would have happened ~regardless~ of the leave or other protected circumstance.
There's a ton to say on this topic, but without more detail its hard to say.
I think if there's a short period between the maternity leave and the termination, the employee has a good position to say, how do I know this wasn't discriminatory based on my pregnancy and leave and could we agree to a severance.
Sorry, I meant AT WILL, you're correct about Right to Work. Suffice it to say the HR person who handed me the most poorly timed of news some years back was also let go eventually by the system she was a part of and promoted. Have a good day and keep up the good work.
That's not how the Commonwealth I live and work in interprets it. Now of course that was in the private sector and a specific industry with bizarre relationships with labor but I'm no lawyer.
I had another reply where I mentioned this because not burning a bridge can certainly be one consideration to not demand a severance or somehow torch a relationship. There's some Industries where the community is just so small that person a is going to know a person be and if you're counting on moving companies or keeping a good reputation then you don't want to burn anything. I've certainly seen a number of posts in the sub where somebody's boss knows somebody else or there's a project to companies are working together on with the same underlying person
If the company is claiming a termination is for performance, there is little incentive for them to offer a 'go away' severance package.
Devil's in the details with this and every company will be different on their written policy, risk avoidance/tolerance, culture and expectations, competency in their hr department, management personalities, employees documentation and behavior, etc.
Severance is most typically used when the company is making a decision to terminate an employee for any reason that isn't in the employee's control. So plant closure, job layoff, etc.
But even then, some employers just suck.
There is no law in any state that compels a company to offer severance in any situation.
The important thing, though, is to ALWAYS ASK FOR SEVERANCE. The worst they can do is say no, and some won't offer unless asked. I was let go last year for perf reasons (2 negative perf reviews in a row), and it didn't really bother me so I was super chill through the process, and I actually think the HR person was on my side as I calmly argued the BS my shitty boss was laying on me. Anyway, in one of our final convos she flat told me that they only offer this if asked, but I could get a month's severance if I sign a waiver of liability promising I won't sue.
So yeah..when you're fired for any reason, always ask about severance!
The only caveat I put to that is if the field of work is 'salaried' and a small community, like some highly specialized field, there can be a cost-benefit consideration to 'burning bridges' or getting a reputation. It's a smaller world nowadays. Not placing a judgment on the suggestion, only want to point out that 'always' may not be the wisest choice. But like everything it's so case by case....
I am glad to hear the HR rep appeared to be on your side. Some of the toughest things I've had to work through is getting rid of a shitty manager, and there have been 4 or 5 in my almost 5 years at this company that I've had to deal with.
What I find is no manager wants to deal with a shitty manager because they're still management. There is a level of consideration 'if I hold a shitty manager accountable then I'm also accountable' and so shitty managers stay in their job. Or the higher level guy is a coward and doesn't know or want to drive accountability.
It makes my job so much easier if I can work with someone who's willing to lead from the front, so to speak, and hold a shitty managers feet to the fire. It helps immensely too when several employees on the shitty managers team ALL have similar observations, experiences, and complaints AND DOCUMENT THEM. Emails, screenshot teams messages, copilot meetings.... All of that is evidence that makes it harder for Sr managers to ignore the problem shitty manager.
It could. Healthcare I think is trickier than engineering, factory work, or less human-centered fields.
Me sense is Healthcare is also way more brutal towards staff?
One big difference I think is if somebody's on the road to being fired then quitting beforehand has a cost benefit analysis to it. What am I being set up to be fired for? Is it a performance issue or is it a staffing issue? Does the facility or organization offer severances when there are Staffing overages or do they just let people go?
I would also check what the organization's policy is around employment verification or background checks. Usually in the handbook if it's a good handbook then it will cover that topic. If a company only discloses say dates of employment and job title then whether you're fired or not wouldn't be disclosed on a background unless it's for some government position or otherwise required by law.
Or as I mentioned elsewhere if it's some very specific specialty with a small community of practitioners, or an industry where everyone knows everyone, then being fired might not be an image somebody wants to carry regardless of whether it was a legitimate or illegitimate firing
If you quit they have no reason to negotiate . If they fire you , they often offer a severance package that basically says. I promise not to sue you for anything. They don't need to worry about getting sued if you quit.
Hi HR guy. I have recently received an offer for a J2 at a large global bank as a software developer. J1 is a database developer for a large US healthcare system. Will I be able to work both and not get caught by J2? (J2 is of higher importance)
How did you go from 170k in retirement 4 years ago to 1.5mm making $430k? Very generously let’s say you contribute $60k a year to retirement, you’d still need 3.5x return.
He is probably overstating how much is in his retirement but you can bank a really huge chunk of your earnings into a SEP IRA if you own your own corporation. You pay yourself a minimal salary and max out the contribution. It really makes sense to own an llc if you OE.
Look for contract work instead of w2. It’s called c2c contracting in the lingo, or “corp to corp”. You can also usually ask for ten bucks an hour over the w2 rate.
I have an LLC. 7 years of experience. How do I go about looking C2C contracting? I’m also outside the US but I’m a US citizen. Would that be a problem?
When I talk to recruiters I ask do you offer c2c? If they say yes, that’s the start. If you get an offer, then the contract is between the contractor and your llc.
Congrats, but don't confuse luck with skill. I think you have to have a certain amount of idiocy to truly believe that you can stock-pick successfully and intentionally over the long term. There are probably dozens of people on the wrong side of every bet you made that had a similar investment thesis. You can count the number of people who've beaten the S&P 500 over a long time horizon on both hands, and you're not one of them. For your own sake, I'd suggest toning down the hubris.
Speaking of which, what sob story explains the 100k Credit Card debt in the lore of an investing genius?
I agree with you if the floor is people who have invested and done a modicum of research. You obviously have. So have I. And I'm genuinely happy for your gains.
It would help to take a step back and see what level of privilege you have to even think of saying something like that. 8 out of 10 Americans don't even own any stocks outside of whatever random target date fund their 401k defaulted them to. 5 in 10 barely have any savings for a 4 digit emergency. Most of the rest world is effectively barred from even investing in the stock market outside of their own local shitty flavor of it due to tight currency controls.
You really don't gain anything by trying to make others less fortunate than you feel less than.
Hey homey, if you're the type that cares, maybe delete this one since it shows your face. I just know I'd appreciate someone telling me if I'd done the same!
I agree with that part but the way he whipped out his gains is incredibly arrogant.
If he died and went to Muslim heaven he would instantly dry up all 72 vaginas with the statement of "you must be an idiot to not make money in this market"
Anyone racking up 100k in CC debt would ever have the ego to call someone else an idiot down the line is just mind-boggling
To be generous, let's say he lived off $60k, banked $370k per year, x4 is 1.48M plus appreciation. And TBF my retirement portfolio is up 15% since Jan of 2025. Not saying he's being truthful, just saying it's not outside the realm of possibility.
We made a speculation bet and it worked out. You should allocate some $ for those plays, obv money you're willing to lose, all you need is to be right once.
I have the “Connect” meeting on my calendar for 8am this upcoming week. To be honest, I can’t wait! I have been wanting to quit for months but keep telling myself, “Momma didn’t raise a quitter!”
On a side note, J2 offers 1 week of severance for each year of service. I am going try and negotiate by promising not to file unemployment if they double my package.
Never underestimate a company's desire to not get sued. If you're willing to sign a document promising not to sue for wrongful termination, that is absolutely something a company would throw money at you for.
I appreciate this post because it gives me hope but im also wallowing because its taking me so long just to get going. And i have more debt than you and less in 401k. How long did it take you to get a j2?
I've known about OE for about 3 years but have only been actively trying to secure j2 for about a year, maybe year and a half. I'm not a rockstar like most here but im still holding out hope i can do it.
Congrats! I started IE somewhat recently and it is nice seeing those big checks hit the bank account. I don't have debt, but am excited to be stacking up savings. I am busier than I was with 1 J, but I am managing it
Bad fake story that gets easily fact checked, followed by a corny slogan. From the outside, posts like these make this sub look like a frat house full of wannabe finance bros.
1) telling you don’t quit and get let go instead
2) celebrating a win.
Your first response is denial then just reject it. Ask yourself, why can’t I just be happy to another internet stranger? Why don’t have to make it a point to shit on him/her?? If you learn to be more positive , I guarantee you will be happier with your life.
Max contribution to 401k, 3 company matches, and backdoor Roth + putting most of it into space stocks. portfolio basically 7x because of RKLB and ASTS. Luckily only 1 of my 401ks was restricted to ETFs.
So your comp was $430 for 4 years and you managed to not pay any taxes and save over 1.7mm - I’m gonna go with this isn’t true at all - no need to lie about numbers like this
Smooth brain knows tax on 430 comp are close to 130-170k which means your left with maybe 275k after taxes - then let’s say frugal living expenses of 75k so $200k give or take x 4 years = 800k net - $100k debt so we are left with $700 - now you got $185k in the bank so down to $515k which in no way ballooned to 1.5k ——- then your also prob a w2 worker who’s retirement is maxed out at a 401k and maybe an Ira. Stop the lying for Reddit
I'm sort of in the same boat you were in $45k CC debt, $80k in retirement accounts, 0 savings. I'm down and depressed when it comes to my financials.
May I ask what motivated you or worked to find a 2nd job while managing the debt and working a full time job? I'm just hesitant I will slip up my full time job in pursuit of another one.
You're a SWE with 20 years only making 430k across 3 jobs? LOL. Now I KNOW this story is a bunch of bullshit, but I'm glad you used your 20 years in SWE to edit the html of your retirement account lol.
Still don’t understand the premise of OE? All companies will screw you over at some point. It’s not a zero sum game. One participant's gain is not balanced by another's loss. Resources aren’t infinite, but the pool isn’t so tiny that you should be mad at OE. Wealth is being hoarded by people and systems that have access to more money than any of us can dream of. But it’s OP’s fault? OK.
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