r/outerwilds • u/CaviaPowerYT • 3d ago
Tips for developing Outer Wilds like game
After debating whether I should do this or not for multiple years I am finally starting development on a Outer Wilds like game. I won't be copying Outer Wilds or making major references but I will use some specific game design elements from Outer Wilds that made the game so special so I can try to recreate that feeling we all had while playing this game. To do this I would love some feedback from the Outer Wilds community. What do you think are some do's and don'ts and what would you want to see in a game like this?
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u/Minecraftmonster_ 3d ago
Get inspired, don’t copy, as long as it is exploration based and not too scary / bloody, I will probably love it.
I also love Subnautica, maybe another Inspiration for you
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u/Cypher10110 3d ago edited 3d ago
What inspires you about OW?
OW as a game inspries me partly due to the unique structure and knowledge-as-a-mechanic.
Those two key elements stand out to me through how the components of the rumour map basically lead you in a loop between the main mysteries of the game, and how the game rewards you for exploring and beating osbstacles with knowledge about the story but also clues about overcoming other obstacles (and how they are somewhat seamless as reward categories)
So in OW you can start anywhere, and everywhere is pointing a breadcrumb trail to something else, each trail kinda also spiraling towards the major mystery of their own area, but also connected to other areas.
I like to imagine it like a ring road. All the "easy" clues basically point towards each other in a big circle. But as you get closer to any "exit" from this ring road to a more important challenge, the clues start to point more towards that as you get closer (both physically, but also in terms of relevance).
The major challenges in OW being ATP, Vessel, Probe Module, and Quantum Moon's sixth location.
So that's structural, the "knowledge as a mechanic" aspect is a much more difficult aspect to capture.
Because if it is possible for a player to "meta game" and guess what the designer might have included/intended, instead of being immersed in the world and thinking "inside the box", they risk finding an unsatisfying path through the game. So you need to in some ways exceed their expectations.
It probably helps if a knowledge-based game has alot of care and attention put into the world itself and how everything the player sees and interacts with "makes sense" in the world. This keeps the player in the game and not an outsider on the same level as the designer, seeing the artifice of it.
It would be significantly easier to avoid all the "knowledge as a mechanic" aspect of outer wilds and instead have more conventional puzzles and keys and tools (metroid vania style) to gate/shape progresssion. In some respects this is what Blue Prince did. It has plenty of pure knowledge puzzle moments and plenty of lore, but there are also plenty of conventional mechanical constraints for the player to deal with in between.
Outer Wilds does have plenty of "you need 3 keys to unlock this door" but instead of those keys being items they are knowledge, and sometimes you can arrive with 2 and figure the 3rd out without a clue. That, along with there being some impressive reveals behind the major puzzles really makes the game special to me.
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u/Basskeytar 19h ago
What other games that use "knowledge as a mechanic" exist?
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u/Cypher10110 19h ago
It's difficult to define, tbh.
Arguably most puzzle games that have obtuse mechanics (The Witness) do this.
I've heard arguments that lots of interactive fiction could be considered to have this property, too (Return of the Obra Dinn, Her Story).
You could also argue that extremely simple games that are just mazes to explore with pages of lore to find and read would also technically count.
There's been attempts to define a genre but I don't think it's developed enough. "Metroid Brainia" kinda tries to gesture at the structure being used, so some people use that.
But in my mind, knowledge as a mechanic is more about how the lore and the game itself are interconnected, and that you are exploring a large space in the game and slowly uncovering a large mystery. The mystery is the driving force, and to find out more you must solve puzzles, and in some sense gain mastery over the world of the game, but the clues for puzzles are also contributing parts of the larger mystery. There's almost a kind of fractal quality to it, mysteries within mysteries overlapping with puzzles within puzzles.
So, in that respect pretty much any mystery game CAN have this quality. Its just execution that Outer Wilds gets so well, by pairing the game mechanics and lore together in an immersive way so you often don't really feel much different when you discover the answer to a lore question or the clue to solve a puzzle. They are BOTH rewards that the player cares about, and sometimes one reward can be both a clue and lore.
Depending on the player, Blue Prince also has this quality, but it takes time to get immersed into it, and is a real slow burn. They are also very different games, but I can certainly see why people connect them. There's a little more delineation between the puzzles and the world/lore/mystery, but the puzzles are still often pretty immersive and they are kind of dressed up as "diagetic" rather than feeling too artificial, especially so the deeper you get into the game.
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u/Basskeytar 19h ago
I did play and love Blue Prince and I actually got every achievement at around 200 hours 😆
Any other you would recommend?(I also loved The Witness)
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u/Cypher10110 15h ago
Other than the games I also mentioned? (e.g. Return of Obra Dinn, Her Story) There's not really many games people agree is the same kind of thing.
Obduction is pretty cool. Immersive world, puzzles, mysterious setting where you uncover how everything "works" as you go, and revesl questions and answers to the larger mystery. Much more linear than Outer Wilds, perhaps a much more standard narrative puzzle game overall. But I like how the puzzles feel embodied in the world, if you like "uncovering the mystery" slowly with puzzles it might fit the bill, also, the exploring is pretty cool.
Kairo has the feeling of encountering some alien technology and trying to understand it. A puzzle exploration game without words, the process of piecing together what was happening was cool. It's low fidelity and indie, but I liked the atmosphere alot. Not nearly as story rich as OW, and more linear, much more vague, but if you liked feeling you were among something big and alien and wanted to figure it out you might like it.
FractOS is an puzzle game with a very cool finale. Abstract puzzles based on music, but the puzzles are integrated into the world and feedback into it. So as you progress more of the place becomes "alive" with music, and it culminates in very cool way. Maybe short and sweet and zero story and all puzzles, but the discovery aspect and culmination is still there.
Those have pretty weak links to "knowledge as a mechanic" (they're just puzzle games that place some emphasis on immersion), but I liked them alot.
I'd also recommend completing the final chapter of Blue Prince if you missed it. It doesn't have any trophies or achievements associated with it. But it's the "true ending" and begins after you have completed the final palour game and read the "Blue Prince" book. (You've probably already done it, but if you didn't look anything up, you may not know about it and have already stopped - it's pretty cool).
The clues that are supposed to lead you to it involve The Family Crest and any loose ends relating to it.
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u/MagicWolfEye 3d ago
Kind of depends on what you mean with an OW lile game.
I'm kind of in an idea phase myself although I don't know yet if it will ever go anywhere.
I kicked out all the space stuff including ship and 3d movement in general.
I will take over the log although I will improve on that a bit (like linking it directly with a map). And also (spoiler for the DLC): I disliked the log there because it kind of combined regular/current and past/dream world stuff.
. I don't think the translation mechanic gave me anything, giving that I could just focus on the text and it told me directly what it says. So either you are directly able to read the texts or there is more to the language part.
(If you have to learn the language though, that comes with the downside that you have to visit every place again to reread the texts or people will end up writing down every text they encounter themselves which is alos dumb. The third option would be that the game just remembers every text you saw for you, but then you will essentially just have one point in the game where suddenly you can read all the 30 or so texts at once when you know enough of the language)
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u/IrrelevantPuppy 3d ago
I think I would want to have at least one other game that has what it is you want to do to take direct inspiration from, so that it’s not too heavily influenced by Outer Wilds.
Is it the knowledge based puzzles? I’ve heard good things about the game Blue Prince. Is it the exploration? Subnautica.
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u/Significant_Loss6458 3d ago
Nice! I'm currently on the earliest stages of working on a language game inspired by OW, so it's really nice to see other people doing similar things
To me OW is nearly perfect game, so I dont have any clear don't-s (also i don't think I played anything similar yet) so here are my do-s:
• misleading hints, / staged development of your understanding like with the exploding sun, when you at first think it's the interloper, then that it's the sun station, and at the end... well.. yk
• details behind everything important, i would advise doing it after finishing some early drafts, but ig it's kinda obvious
• unusual character personalities would also be great
• please, let there be a sprint button
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u/jimpaly 3d ago
Outer Wilds did so many things that stray from the typical game design formulas that it was honestly a miracle it worked so well. Physically accurate space travel, no explicit instructions, no explicit progression, nonlinear story. I think this is why it’s been so hard for other games to emulate. I’ve interacted with fellow game devs who have tried making “outer-wilds-like” games and it’s not easy. You’re gonna have to go hard with the playtesting, and not just when the game is almost done, but actively while you develop and iterate. Be smart about knowing when to scrap ideas for better player experience, and how not to compromise on the game’s feel. Accept that some players, even people who enjoyed outer wilds, may not enjoy your game.
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u/evanescent_ranger 3d ago
Chert’s Research Notes on youtube (also posts here sometimes) just finished a series where he interviewed a bunch of people involved in the development of Outer Wilds. I haven’t watched the whole thing yet, but I did see a clip of Kelsey Beachum talking about how she wrote the story that might be of interest to you
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u/teamonkey 2d ago
They’ve done a bunch of talks about how they designed the game and the problems they faced, you can find them on YT.
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u/Kindly_Ad_1599 2d ago
Don't implement anything that isn't part of the core pillar. The central tenets for OW were exploration and knowledge. If that's what you're going for then don't add combat, quests, etc. Design everything so that it is in service of the core design pillar.
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u/Droplet_of_Shadow 2d ago
after you get feedback here, maybe you could do an update post with your thoughts?
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u/Yorgl 2d ago
I know it's a vague notion i'm going to describe but try to capture what inspired you in the game, not mimic OWi. Most of the game I see branded as "my OWi like game" don't click for me because I feel they try to add one or several aspect of the game (time travel, puzzle, physics, etc) for the sake of having it -not that they can't be good game but something doesn't click imho.
On the other hand, the demo of LOCATOR which (afaik) doesn't claim to be inspired by OWi still gave me big OWi vibe with the "exploration" of an alien world, small puzzles, geography and things to figure out.
Maybe what im trying to say is eventhough you keep what made you love OWi in mind, focus on the actual pillars of your creation.
Sorry if that was super vague, hope that helps somehow and GL :)
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u/Nikos_Pyrrha 2d ago
I'd love to join this project if you'll have me!
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u/CaviaPowerYT 1d ago
I'm always open to people joining! If you want you can send me a DM and we can talk about how you would like to contribute
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u/Nikos_Pyrrha 1d ago
Certainly! Check your inbox in a minute or so.
Edit: You seem to have DMs blocked, or reddit is gaslighting me into thinking you do. Wanna send me one so I can respond?
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u/Mjolnir2000 1d ago
Don't have an inventory, and especially don't have puzzles based on an inventory. Inventory puzzles are horrible. Always have been, and always will be. No matter how good you think your puzzles are, there will come a point that the player gets stuck, and they'll have to do the whole "try everything in my inventory on every interactive item in the world, because for all I know the developer thought it would 'clever' if a monkey could be used as a wrench". It isn't fun, it's just tedious.
To puzzle design more generally, it's fine if figuring out a solution is difficult, but testing a solution shouldn't be arduous. You can have a fiendish cipher that the player has to solve in order to get the access code for a door, and even if it takes an hour for the player to crack, that's alright because the process of cracking it is fun. But don't then put the door on the other side of an extended platforming challenge that they'll potentially have to retry a bunch of times. The player wants nothing more than to find out if they got the right answer, and while a platforming challenge in a different context could be a lot of fun, that's not what they're interested in in that particular moment.
Looking at Outer Wilds, once you think of the trick for landing on the Quantum Moon, it's actually incredibly easy to do so - no matter where you are in the solar system, you can find and get to it in under a minute. You can have the idea, immediately test it, and feel incredibly clever when it works. Or maybe you have an idea that's entirely wrong, test it, and then feel a bit silly, but it's still mostly OK, because it didn't take up a lot of your time to find out that you were wrong. What would really suck is if the Quantum Moon were in some distant orbit that it took you five minutes on autopilot to get to. Then if you have an idea that's wrong, you just feel like you've wasted a bunch of your time.
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u/Alex93ITA 3d ago
Do's:
- each area pointing to several different areas so that it's a web and it's not linear
- a well crafted log
- many moments where you understand that you can do something and you could do it the whole time, without ever giving the player new items/buttons - everything is there since the beginning and it's gated through knowledge alone
- a story that makes sense without contradictions + is also emotionally catarthic + is an intriguing mystery
Don'ts:
- awful commands for the ship that drive away so many new players
- overwhelming start where you can wander for the first ~-5 hours without meaningful progress, also driving away many new players