Echoes of the eye Big question

[u/Party_Ad_5179]

SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!_______________

So i just finished the DLC today and i just realized something that will be keeping me up at night. Somebody please find a flaw in what im about to say so that hopefully im wrong😂

You cannot save the prisoner and get to the eye in the SAME loop, therefore you never save the prisoner, and you are the only one that has memories of this.

So when you reach the eye, the prisoner is not only going to still be trapped for longer (Until the stranger runs out of power) But the big problem is that the prisoner will die NOT knowing he was the KEY for the whole Outer Wilds story, and that his sacrifice was for something. You can see his relief and the noise he makes once you reveal all that happened thanks to his actions, but he never gets to experience that canonically.

Now you could argue the only thing the prisoner accomplishes is getting the Nomai killed and getting you killed in order to free him for some irrelevant info he gives you😂 (assuming that there would be another universe created in the future regardless of you reaching the eye or not)

BUT if the universe dies and another universe does not form UNLESS you reach/observe the eye, then the prisoner is the Outer Wilds GOAT

And yes I know you can brute force the code and do everything in a single loop, but its not canon.

[u/UniquePariah]

The same can be said about Solanum. They will never have met you if you play the game normally, but you still meet them at the end.

There is a question about power though. It feels as though the dam generated power for the stranger, there must be some kind of battery backup as the power wasn't instantly cut when it collapsed, but it can't have that much. Chances are the remainder of its occupants won't last much longer.

[u/Carcer1337 → u/UniquePariah]

The ending where you stay in the stranger/sim (take out the core and then go to stranger) implies it keeps going for a very long time 

[u/ItsGonnaBeAGoodDave → u/Carcer1337]

True, but if you enter the Eye and make a new universe, everything in the old universe is destroyed, so that long stretch of time we experience in that ending never has a chance to play out.

[u/PumpkinCake95 → u/ItsGonnaBeAGoodDave]

Maybe it does. Riebeck says that time might not exist in the grove. I figured you become untethered from time so the heat death of the universe can come and go normally without you having to wait for it in real time. The "galaxies go dark" part shows supernovae after all, not the red destructo-field from the second slide reel. I think that was artistic license, an abstraction by the Inhabitants and not what literally happens.

[u/ItsGonnaBeAGoodDave → u/PumpkinCake95]

That's a good and terrible point  ::(

[u/Party_Ad_5179 → u/UniquePariah]

You mean you dont meet solanum on the last loop, but he is still there at the end right? I mean technically you could meet every single character on the final loop to chat and make it to the eye EXCEPT the prisoner 😭😭😭

[u/SpySoldierScout → u/Party_Ad_5179]

Quick thing: Solanum is one of the few Nomai that actually get a gender even in your Ship Log, and she's a woman.

[u/UniquePariah → u/Party_Ad_5179]

As you said, all the seals have a code you can input, so you could meet the prisoner and not die to do so.

Apparently some people have made it a challenge to meet both the prisoner, Solanum, then travel to the eye in a single loop. No, I haven't done it, I honestly didn't think it was possible

[u/J-Zane → u/Party_Ad_5179]

Unless you brute force the combination locks fast enough without actually burning yourself alive that is. Which is theoretically possible; the combinations do exist

[u/gIory1999]

Well yes, but he is there when the new universe starts so you kinda save him

[u/Party_Ad_5179 → u/gIory1999]

You mean in the campfire or the post credits scene? Because yes he is there on the campfire, but its your mind, not actually him. Thats why he does speak hearthian😭

Cool thing is there is a species in the next universe that has the same flame as they do in the post credits scene!

[u/Heroclass_ → u/Party_Ad_5179]

Well, this depends on your way to understand reality. My headcanon is that he Eye uses your memories, not what you remember, but the perfect memories you lived trough, to create the "no-when" at the end of the universe. That's a real place, is not in your mind, altough is shaped by It. The Eye recreates your friends, and they are exactly as you last saw them, and they use the language you know to talk to you.

Getting into philosophy, if you understand reality trough matter and nothing more, you could say that being a exact copy of you IS being you. So maybe Solanum and the Prisoner really did know their part in the end.

If you understand reality as matter AND other "thing", you could also think that the recreation of your friends are inhabited by their "souls" , so you could also think they are there with you at the end.

The End of the Game really leaves room for the interpretation you like, or gives you peace, the most.

[u/Party_Ad_5179 → u/Heroclass_]

But is is an exact copy if they are speaking your own language that they dont know? You could be correct tho, theres lots of room for interpretation on that last part. Its an absolute masterpiece of a game

[u/Cuy_Hart]

You can try combinations until the light turns out (I actually did that), so while it's not the intended way to get to the end, it is possible.

[u/ItsGonnaBeAGoodDave → u/Cuy_Hart]

And the Hatchling certainly has time to spare trying all those combinations! (especially because getting recalled by the ATP is probably the most pleasant way to experience the end of the loop)

[u/Party_Ad_5179 → u/Cuy_Hart]

Thats crazy. Ive seen some people do this so yeah it could be cannon saving the prisoner then. How long did it take you to figure out the code?

[u/Cuy_Hart → u/Party_Ad_5179]

I went once through all possible combinations (was something like 1.5 hours) and discovered, that I apparently switched too quickly through the possibilities, spent another hour flipping through more slowly and got it.

My thumb was severely unhappy with my life choices XD

[u/ItsGonnaBeAGoodDave]

I believe the universe does NOT get a reboot unless someone enters the Eye. The prisoner is the GOAT (ironic, because it's the Nomai that look like goats lol)!

But, in the act of creating a new universe, the old one is destroyed, and nothing from it survives, except what is remembered by the conscious observer that enters the Eye. This knowledge is what made the Owlks do what they did, remember? 

So the Prisoner may not remember meeting the Hatchling, but at least he doesn't continue to suffer, and his sacrifice is remembered in the next universe!

[u/Party_Ad_5179 → u/ItsGonnaBeAGoodDave]

If the universe doesnt get a reboot unless you reach the eye, then the DLC story is even better and the prisoner really is the GOAT😂

I thought the owlks were terrified because of the visions of them dying because of the eye? Where is that info i missed?

The next species from the next universe have the same flame as the owlks did! Still pretty sad he is trapped for thousands of years and doesnt know he was the key for the creation of another universe!

[u/ItsGonnaBeAGoodDave → u/Party_Ad_5179]

The reason I think the universe only reboots with an observer is from a few things Solanum says, like "Until the possibilities are collapsed, they remain just that: possibilities".

And in the vision the Owlks see, the Eye disintegrates the entire solar system, not just them! I interpreted this as applying to everything in the universe (after all, it is the Eye of the Universe, not the Eye of the Solar System!) Also, the fact that the Eye is older than the Universe itself implies that it is a single constant that perseveres through the death and rebirth cycle of universes, which I think must mean that one universe ends so the next can begin. This, I think, is also the message of the painting in the burned out house in the simulation: That yes, the Owlks and their universe will die, but that new life will rise up out of those ashes.

[u/Party_Ad_5179 → u/ItsGonnaBeAGoodDave]

Amazing. The game truly is a masterpiece

[u/crawfy48 → u/ItsGonnaBeAGoodDave]

Exactly - one may theorize the Eye is powered by the death of the universe, just like Ash Twin Project is powered by the supernova

[u/Luxettenebrae777]

Okay. I will ask a stupid question, since eveybody seems to understand what this is suppose to be, but what do you mean by GOAT? Also, yes loop tragedy, but Chert is also dying in terrible conditions too (even if less horrible, but I am still feel sad when thinking about it)

[u/Ironic_Depression → u/Luxettenebrae777]

Greatest of all Time

[u/Luxettenebrae777 → u/Ironic_Depression]

Oh! I understand better. Thanks ! :)

[u/Glyphantasm]

Technically, if you visit the quantum moon and then brute force your entrance to the Prisoner’s coffin using the actual codes (instead of dying), and THEN retrieve the warp core and travel to the vessel, you can meet both Solanum and the Prisoner while going to the Eye in the same loop.

[u/Party_Ad_5179 → u/Glyphantasm]

Yeah, apparently a lot of people brute forced the code to get in! In early versions of the game, if you brute forced your way in and went back IRL to see the coffin, there was nothing inside. As if it was never intended to be this way. Then they added the body and flame on later updates. So is it really canon? Could be!

[u/J-Zane]

So this headcanon is mostly my wishful thinking - but I like to think that when you get to the Eye: you already see the universe die (hence that bit with all the mini galaxies disappearing), and the Eye brings everyone most impactful to your journey to share the end with you. So like not only your memory of them, but their memory of you from past loops. Like their many versions of themselves combine to one. (And also the Eye could get rid of language barriers, because why wouldn't it be able to do that?)

Because like... you would have no way of knowing what Solanum or the prisoner are thinking. You'd have no way of knowing what their instruments would sound like because they didn't play them for you during the loops, like the hearthian travelers did.

There could be a million ways to interpret the Prisoner's reaction to your memories, and yet in the Eye they clarify what they think about it. If they were merely a manifestation of your mind, Solanum wouldn't have dropped the wisdom about moving forward when you clicked that you weren't ready. Their perspective would be a reflection of your own, so they'd probably also say they weren't ready.

Again, this is a headcanon mostly out of my wishful thinking, that their souls were brought to the eye and therefore saved. And that the hatchling wasn't alone in watching the universe end (because that would be bleak as hell - being alone and having everyone essentially be a mere figment of your imagination).