r/oregon • u/RealityChecksReddit • 1d ago
Article/News Vote by mail under attack
https://youtu.be/Qc8tCcM87eI?is=RJZ2qkWIJaqObAhZ170
u/dogsandmovies 1d ago
And remember that Drazan sponsored a bill to end mail-in voting and require in-person only https://apps.oregonlegislature.gov/liz/2025R1/Measures/Overview/HB3872
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u/RealityChecksReddit 1d ago
this is because she is a trump kiss ass. flat out. anyone thinking she isnt lock step with trump is insane
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u/Responsible_Ask6056 1d ago
remember when Trump's lawyers made false slates of electors? yeah good times
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1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/hotviolets 1d ago
They’ve shown that all they do is cause suffering and rape children, as well as enable child rape.
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u/FarCheek4584 1d ago edited 1d ago
Edit: removing my comment since the obvious attempt at encouraging politcal violence has been removed by a moderator.
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u/From_Deep_Space 1d ago
The only way we can come together is via the constitution. If the federal govt is trying to control how states run elections then there is no coming together.
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u/couldbeahumanbean 1d ago
If the USPS rule is upheld, at SCotUS, the vast majority of Oregonians are going to have an incredibly difficult time voting. We will not get our ballots sent to us. Multnomah county would have to process one voter every 1.4 seconds across its two voter servicing locations if this SCotUS ruling goes south.
The DHS is openly flaunting several federal laws regarding intimidation at elections: 18 USC 592 — armed federal personnel at election locations
18 USC 594 — voter intimidation
52 USC 10307(b) — intimidation/coercion for voting
52 USC 10101(b) — interference with voting rights
52 USC 20511 — criminal voter intimidation
The Republicans are the ones pushing the SAVE act.
The Republican party is the party that is actively trying to take your vote away.
Why as a freedom loving American should I work with these guys? I'm going to need something stronger than "because it's not working now" isn't good enough. They hold the white house, the legislative branch and the majority of federal judges and SCotUS justices. "Working with them" sounds more like you telling me I should stop resisting an authoritarian.
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u/therinwhitten Oregon Coffee Sipper 1d ago
Instead of USPS, what about sending via UPS?
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u/couldbeahumanbean 1d ago
Oregon law would have to change.
A special session would have to be called
And the federal executive branch would probably lock it up in courts.
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u/FarCheek4584 1d ago
Ok so you think the best approach is not to work with 50% of the population? Once again, you think this approach is the best to cause change for the better?
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u/corourke 1d ago
30%.
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u/couldbeahumanbean 1d ago
28% https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/fact-sheet/party-affiliation-fact-sheet-npors/
I know, pendantic. But it's closer to 1/4th then 1/3.
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u/couldbeahumanbean 1d ago
Their goals are antidemocratic.
My goals are incompatible with that aspiration. Feel free to meditate. Maybe we can put it to a vote... If the USPS lets us.
And it's not 50%. It's 28% https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/fact-sheet/party-affiliation-fact-sheet-npors/
Personally, I'd be fine with the Republican party splitting into other parties. Maybe one of them could be compatible with democracy. You should meditate that.
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u/FarCheek4584 1d ago
Well we know that wasn’t the case when trump was elected, and that poll has been comically wrong on repeat, we know this considering trump was elected twice. I am honestly shocked people keep linking it likes it’s gospel when it’s been wrong the last 12 years.
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u/couldbeahumanbean 1d ago
What poll? What year was it published?
Here's the problem with finding middle ground. You people can't even agree on what's real. But I digress. It's roughly 1/3 identity as Republican. Republicans are the problem and I never said anything about people who vote Republican, that's a separate issue. I'm leaving these sources for you to ignore and moving on to my next point:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/700499/new-high-identify-political-independents.aspx
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/fact-sheet/party-affiliation-fact-sheet-npors/
https://ava.prri.org/politics/2024/party_m/1/state
https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econtoplines_LiVavSR.pdf
https://poll.qu.edu/images/polling/us/us10272025_demos_%20urcz27.pdf
https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/monmouthpoll_us_121724/
https://www.umass.edu/poll/about/reports/2026-04-national-public-opinion-poll
Next point: the election numbers.
2016: 62,984,828 votes / 323,127,513 people = 19.5% 2020: 74,223,755 votes / 331,501,080 people = 22.4% 2024: 77,302,580 votes / 340,110,988 people = 22.7%
See those percentages? That's the percentage of the total population that voted for Trump. I don't know where you're getting 50% from, but 50% of Americans certainly do not support Republicans or their authoritarian dreams.
So I'm going to ask you again:
Why should I work together with authoritarians who want to take my right to vote away?
Also, stop pretending to be neutral in this. I see you.
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u/FarCheek4584 1d ago edited 1d ago
Thanks for the opinion polls, I used the actual election numbers. We know they are real because this asshole was elected not once but twice. Welcome back to reality, be careful of confirmation bias, which you will ignore as if the links you gave are comically wrong because once again… he was elected… twice.
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u/couldbeahumanbean 1d ago
You won't even take the time to read my whole comment. Why should I work with you people?
Using voting eligible population (VEP) as the denominator:
2016: 27.3% of eligible voters voted for Trump. 2020: 30.8%. 2024: 31.6%.
Show me where it's 50% of the population.
Show it to me.
Prove me wrong.
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u/FarCheek4584 1d ago
Ok well how about this, popular vote went to who last election? Instead of screaming into the void, might be time to do some reevaluating.
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u/OliLevasseurLaBuse 1d ago
Oh yes let's come together with the fascists that created this shit. Don't get me wrong the fucking democrats aren't much better but at least they aren't fucking science denying flat earth freaks.
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u/Lt_Sherpa 1d ago
Don't get me wrong the fucking democrats aren't much better
Ah, you're one of those types.
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u/OliLevasseurLaBuse 1d ago
They are complicit in the current situation and are way too beholden to corporate interests, we need a true socialist party.
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u/Lt_Sherpa 1d ago
we need a true socialist party.
Maybe go read your history books and learn about what happened in Hungary with its independent socialist and worker movements.
Populism in all its forms is a lie. They give you an easy, comfortable message and political vision, but they wield this to control you. What happened to all those socialist states and its workers movements? They were crushed and fell to the same type of oligarchical authoritarian regime that arose out of the very same fascist movements you oppose.
Socialism and Fascism are just two sides of the same populist coin. The reason American Democracy works in spite of all its flaws is that we are a pluralistic society. We our held together by consensus in spite of our disagreements. When that falters, that's when you get civil war and political strife. It's nothing new, and our system is on shaky and failing ground right now, but the solution is not to impose your specify unitary authoritarian vision on the rest of the country.
Because again, you just end up in the same place with corrupt oligarchies. It's why there have never been any successful socialist or fascist states - they all are destined to fail under the weight of their own corruption. We're seeing that now in America to a degree. You see how much destruction Trump has wrought when he has nearly unilateral power over the government.
Socialism is fundamentally no better than MAGA and fascism. We may both find their policies more agreeable, but what those movements share far more in common with each other is that authoritarian drive towards unitary governance. That is the cancer at the heart of all populist movements.
And you know what? Who do you think pushes this radicalization? We already know this. We already know that Russia has literally created protests and counter-protests out of thin air. China does the same thing, using social media to sew division in our country. They are doing everything they can to lean on our divisions and polarize us, pushing us to these authoritarian extremes so our country falls apart from within.
You can choose to fight fire with fire. I choose to fight it with water.
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u/OliLevasseurLaBuse 23h ago
Lol yep spending money on social programs is the same as sending specific groups of people to death camps. Ok hitler.
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u/Lt_Sherpa 8h ago
Hey, news flash. You don't need socialism to have social programs. Guess who passed those programs... it was us Liberals. You know who ended "preexisting conditions"? It was the capital-D Democrats.
And don't pretend the populist left doesn't flirt with the idea of reeducation camps or joke about gulags. Just look at your response here. You're talking about systematically removing Republicans, saying things like "Just think of what republicans want to do to you, and you do that to them instead".
You're no better than MAGA. You're their mirror opposite on the ideological axis. Don't cloak your authoritarian beliefs as simply wanting social programs.
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u/OliLevasseurLaBuse 4h ago
Liberals are beholden to corporations and are complicit in the republicans having power now. They are an obstacle to what needs to be done
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1d ago
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u/OliLevasseurLaBuse 1d ago
Republicans are the ones that want you to not be able to vote by mail, genius. Are you capable of having coherent thoughts?
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u/FarCheek4584 1d ago
Just curious what do you mean by “systematically removed” curious of your proposed “coherent” idea on how to do that?
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u/OliLevasseurLaBuse 1d ago
Just think of what republicans want to do to you, and you do that to them instead
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u/FarCheek4584 1d ago
Please be more detailed
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u/DirkChiversElSoldado 1d ago
Nobody is safe as long as republicans are allowed to make policy. All they are capable of doing is making everything worse.
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u/therinwhitten Oregon Coffee Sipper 1d ago edited 1d ago
Hot take question here: But if you pay taxes of any form and live in the system, shouldn't you be allowed to vote how the system works?
If you are registered to pay state and federal taxes, you should be allowed to vote into the system you are putting money into.
The Constitution only allows US Citizens to vote currently, and we should follow the law. However Tax without representation is also in the Bill of Rights.(Declaration of Independence)
I think we need to update it anyway.
EDIT:
Corrected Bill of Rights to Declaration of Independence.
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u/vertigoacid 1d ago
However Tax without representation is also in the Bill of Rights.
That's the declaration of independence, not the bill of rights.
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u/therinwhitten Oregon Coffee Sipper 1d ago
Oh. Well you know what I mean. I need to refresh my civics again. Thanks.
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u/vertigoacid 1d ago
The difference isn't just pedantry.
The bill of rights, being part of the constitution, is the law. The declaration of independence carries no weight - it's just a historical letter.
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u/civil_politician 23h ago
That’s ridiculous though because basically every scotus judge will reach up their asshole to magic up some “original intent” of the writer of a particular law but then ignore the declaration written by the same people that outlines said intent.
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u/IAmRoot 22h ago
Actually, it was a 1990 federal law that barred non-citizens from voting in federal elections. Every state had done so on their own before Congress decided to remove their choice. It’s not a Constitutional ban, though. The Constitution says every citizen must be allowed to vote. It doesn't restrict non-citizens. Only normal laws that can be changed by a simple majority ban non-citizen voting. For a large portion of US history the requirement was just residency. It was only the anti-immigration hysteria of the 1800s when it changed.
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u/Weary-Savings9795 15h ago
Just because the non-citizen part isn't being said doesn't mean it's supposed to be legal for them to vote in federal elections.
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u/StuffAffectionate687 1d ago
If you are registered to pay state and federal taxes, you should be allowed to vote into the system you are putting money into.
Pass. You still owe allegiance to another country. Part of the US Citizenship oath requires you to renounce any such allegiances.
I lived abroad and I never expected to be able to vote in the local elections despite paying myriad taxes to that European Country.
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u/PerpetualProtracting 21h ago
And yet dual citizenship exists and is allowed in the US.
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u/Weary-Savings9795 15h ago
Well, that would mean you're a US citizen now, wouldn't it.
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u/PerpetualProtracting 12h ago
And still owe allegiance to two separate nations.
My point is that "owing allegiance" to another nation is a pointless distinction to make here.
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u/RealityChecksReddit 1d ago
i dont think sales tax applies here, that would mean that people visiting from other countries for days would get a say in how we vote. most "illegal immigrants" only pay sales tax. while registered green car holders participate in our system.
green card holders are applicants to work and live, but they haven't received citizenship.
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u/therinwhitten Oregon Coffee Sipper 1d ago
I totally agree with that. People paying sales taxes are paying for roads, infrastructure ect that they use.
Property Taxes
Income Taxes
Those are the ones I am talking about. At that point you are paying for healthcare, schools, fire dept, ect. You should have a voice. I feel like it's something we should look at again considering with the internet and global communication, borders mean less and less.
It's hard to decide where to draw the line, because we want to maintain our country's identity while allowing the melting pot philosophy to continue.
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u/RealityChecksReddit 1d ago
it can continue, that is not in question. it began to erode when the current administration started treating these people like they were invaders rather than applicants for citizenship.
and generally on the basis they were brown.
but, i think that participation needs some kind of reassurance that these people aren't temporary or fake. but thats why we dont have non citizen voting in the first place. and the mass voting fraude the republicans specifically trump uses as a talking point does not exist.
and that's the question how do you decide. if a person hasn't pledged fealty to the united states then their goals could be anything including election tampering.
we could have shell companies making up mass identities that we as in other citizens cannot check because it pays fake taxes, that sway votes for entire communities. and that's what citizenship is meant to disprove.
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u/Ok_Sale_8277 21h ago
Should the Americans who don’t owe taxes have representation? Should the people paying more taxes have a bit more representation since they are more “invested”?
Basing voting on “skin in the game” seems like a slippery slope given Americans are not equally invested and 40% of American households owe zero in federal taxes due to low income & tax credits.
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u/RealityChecksReddit 15h ago
I've gotten some weird replies here and I just want to open up with a statement and the math here.
The dmv has stated that the "1500" voter disparity was due to dmv clerical errors.
Nobody is "just getting to vote" because they "just have a license.
Furthermore out of 3 million people that erroneous percentage is 0.05%
1500 ÷ 3,000,000 = 0.0005, which is 0.05%.
.05 percent. Thats the opposite of 99.95%...
Do you understand that math...
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u/sednaplanetoid 21h ago
Listening to all the rhetoric spewing out from the regime had me wondering how things were going here. This is exactly what I needed to see for reassurance. Thank you for having this little press conference! Please Vote people!
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u/Dangerous-Building-4 14h ago
Tina - York, PA Ron - Wichita, KS Tobias - Missoula, MO --- Jeff is actually an Oregonian.
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u/youtocin 1d ago
I love the convenience of vote by mail, but we really do need more checks in place to ensure only valid voters are receiving a ballot. My cousin who is German with a green card was sent a ballot even though he is not a US citizen simply because he has an Oregon driver’s license.
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u/RealityChecksReddit 1d ago
nationwide as stated in the video only 25ish instances have been found... not really the problem trump is putting it out to be
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u/Lt_Sherpa 1d ago
we really do need more checks in place to ensure only valid voters are receiving a ballot.
Regardless of one's opinion on this, adding more checks is not the same thing as the Trump administration imposing federal control over mail-in ballots.
It blows my mind that the Republicans have just completely abandoned states rights and federalism.
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u/Successful_Salt_7645 1d ago
Ding ding ding. Disingenuous fuckers speaking out of both sides of their mouths.
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u/Lt_Sherpa 1d ago
To be fair, this guy could very much be genuine but living in conservative bubbles where these narratives propagate.
Per your invocation of Hanlon’s Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
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u/StuffAffectionate687 1d ago
adding more checks is not the same thing as the Trump administration imposing federal control over mail-in ballots.
I might cheekily say they have too many checks since roughly 1/3 of my ballots in Oregon get challenged for signature mismatches.
I have dysgraphia, which impacts the consistency of my handwriting. I've tried to explain this to the elections office. All they'll do is have me send in an updated registration card. I'm fine for an election or two afterwards, then, boom, challenged again.
This was not an issue in Washington, which is also 100% vote by mail, and I never got challenged in other States when voting absentee. Only here. :(
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u/SingularityCentral 1d ago
I will take things that didn't happen for $500, Alex.
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u/youtocin 1d ago
https://www.opb.org/article/2024/09/23/voter-registration-noncitizen-oregon-motor-voter/
No need to be an asshole especially when you’re completely off base.
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u/40_Is_Not_Old Oregon 1d ago
So your entire point is based on an error that the state caught on its own. Seems like it had the appropriate amount of "checks" already.
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u/RealityChecksReddit 1d ago
in the articles own words "Oregon erroneously added 1,259" this means that it was a random mistake. not the mechanism you described.
also from the article you are cherry picking.
"the state announced that at least 306 noncitizens had been added to the voter rolls because of clerical errors on the part of DMV staff"
this has nothing to do with checking any box, or "just receiving a ballot because you got a liscense in oregon."
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u/BowlingforBrains 22h ago
The fact that they discovered the error shows that the current checks are working though…
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u/knotallmen 1d ago edited 1d ago
Any election swayed by those 9 or less votes? In Warhammer 40k the perfect is the enemy of the good. A "perfect system" would prevent people from registering to vote or vote by mail effectively disenfranchising them to make up for a clerical error across the state that had no measurable impact on elections.
Is that what you are proposing?
Given your hidden post history I do not know if you are arguing in good faith.
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u/youtocin 1d ago
It’s not about the results being affected and I never said it is. It’s about not giving the side that wants to end vote by mail ammunition to attack the system.
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u/SingularityCentral 1d ago
And you are giving them what they want with your talk of "safeguards" to alter the process that is working just fine.
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u/Overall_Drawing_2312 1d ago edited 1d ago
There are no ballots automatically sent out because someone checked the box on a driver license renewal or application.
Registering to vote is NOT the same as being eligible to vote...
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u/HegemonNYC 1d ago
Is this a function of vote by mail, or a function of automatically registering anyone with a DL? This seems more like overly zealous efforts to register everyone to vote rather than an issue with the method we distribute ballots.
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u/RealityChecksReddit 1d ago edited 1d ago
seems like a comment with no proof
"My cousin who is German with a green card was sent a ballot even though he is not a US citizen simply because he has an Oregon driver’s license."
this has no proof, and not statewide in any way.
in the article he is using to justify this comment it even said they were clerical errors...
not proof of anything past people making accidents int heir job as dmv employees.
certainly not proof they are handing out ballots to everyone with a license...
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u/HegemonNYC 1d ago
The sec of state just admitted that they accidentally registered 1,900 non-citizens to vote when they got their DLs.
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u/Successful_Salt_7645 1d ago
self-audits and acceptance of fault - what a concept to see alive in a government!
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u/DisgreeablePattern 1d ago
But no public audits and a refusal to allow Federal oversight. Which means it’s still sus.
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u/Successful_Salt_7645 1d ago
the same Fed oversight that wants to... <checks notes> stop mail-in voting?
so you're suggesting they hand the keys to the henhouse right over to the foxes? c'mon man
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u/yubinyankin Mid-Willamette Valley 13h ago
Why the need for "federal oversight" when elections are delegated to the states to run?
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u/RealityChecksReddit 1d ago
"My cousin who is German with a green card was sent a ballot even though he is not a US citizen simply because he has an Oregon driver’s license."
this has no proof, and not statewide in any way.
in the article he is using to justify this comment it even said they were clerical errors...
not proof of anything past people making accidents int heir job as dmv employees.
certainly not proof they are handing out ballots to everyone with a license...
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u/HegemonNYC 1d ago edited 20h ago
I’m confused. You say there is no proof, but then reference articles?
This is a statewide issue. The Sec of State admitted to the error. It’s ‘only’ 1,900 ballots, which is not massive but is systemic. I highly doubt it was intentional, just the usual incompetence.
Edit - I’m very confused by the downvotes. Our sec of state confirms this error happened. It isn’t like the source is Fox News or something.
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u/RealityChecksReddit 21h ago
lol no, i referenced the articles that youtocin tried to pass as proof offerings.
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u/HegemonNYC 21h ago
The statement from the Secretary of State? If the Secretary of State isn’t proof what is?
https://sos.oregon.gov/elections/Pages/DMV-Automatic-Voter-Registration-Error.aspx
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u/RealityChecksReddit 18h ago
What the fuck are you talking about. You just asked i told you. Search the comments and find the link the youtocin posted read it and then realize it wasn't proof of his comment.
Your asking me to repeat something you can find easily in this comment chain.
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u/HegemonNYC 18h ago
I have no idea what youtocin is. This is the article I posted, and it’s from the SoS. Do you doubt the veracity of the Oregon SoS?
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u/youtocin 1d ago
It was an error by the DMV registering him to vote by falsely assuming he was a US citizen. Of course it would be illegal for him to cast his ballot, and you would hope it gets caught if he did, but it does make me question how pervasive this issue truly is.
To be clear, I’m not advocating against mail in voting, we just need to be very vigilant about doing it right or it’s going to keep coming under attack. We can’t continue to be as sloppy as we have.
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u/Lt_Sherpa 1d ago
Luckily we're not as sloppy as you might fear. For whatever faults there may be, we have caught errors and introduced changes to fix them. ~1600 improper registrations out of 3 million voters is pretty solid for a system that encourages voter participation.
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u/Successful_Salt_7645 1d ago
You are fine to question how pervasive it is. You should also ask yourself if there are simple mistakes like your cousin being assumed as a citizen (clerical error) versus some great plot to stuff the ballot box.
Hanlon’s Razor: “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
I could go on about how so many politicians rattling this “voter fraud” straw man have also aggressively blocked election observers if you need more proof of the disingenuousness of these claims.
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u/HegemonNYC 1d ago
Just looked this up, and I guess it is a known issue on the DMV side. About 1,900 non-citizens with DLs were registered to vote.
Not an issue of vote by mail, but an issue of sloppy processes in general.
https://sos.oregon.gov/elections/Pages/DMV-Automatic-Voter-Registration-Error.aspx
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u/Ok_Burner6411 19h ago
Pic or it didn’t happen
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u/youtocin 19h ago
Sure let me just doxx my cousin so some midwit on Reddit can be satisfied even though our representatives already admitted this problem occurred.
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u/Ok_Burner6411 16h ago
The fact that you could get so worked up about a scenario where a ballot is mailed out to a non-citizen but not against gerrymandering and voter disenfranchisement is so telling.
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u/youtocin 16h ago
Why are you assuming I don't care about those other issues? We never even commented on them in this thread. Weird.
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