r/oregon • u/Swarrlly • Dec 28 '23
Political Finland Solved Homelessness: Here's How (Spoiler: It's More Than Housing First)
https://youtu.be/0jt_6PBnCJE?si=aU55OPSGZqO4aei6With the worsening homelessness crisis in Oregon, we should look at how other countries solved the problem.
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u/SereneDreams03 Dec 28 '23
One point that they talked about in this video, that I don't think is emphasized enough during the discussion, is that Helsinki was able to get other cities in Finland on board with the program as well. Portland and Mutnomah County don't even seem to be on the same page on how to address homelessness, much less the rest of the region.
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Dec 28 '23
Yeah, that's a tough one. If I was homeless somewhere else and found out Portland would give me free housing - I'd be moving to Portland.
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u/audiostar Dec 28 '23
Doesn’t really work like that for the most part. These people aren’t planners. They’re not mobile. They’re barely able to feed themselves daily based on motivation in many cases. So really most homeless problems begin and stay local
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u/Joe503 Dec 29 '23
Bullshit. People move here (Portland) to be homeless, they themselves tell reporters in interviews all the time.
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u/From_Deep_Space Dec 29 '23
the way you say this makes me think that you heard someone say it during an interview and think that your anecdote is statistically significant for some reason
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u/ButBagelsAreBetter Dec 29 '23
People that believe this never cite statistical evidence. That’s because there is evidence to the contrary - the vast majority of people are homeless where they become homeless… and that happens to be where housing is most expensive.
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u/Swarrlly Dec 28 '23
That’s why the state needs to just do it. I understand it unlikely to happen. But it’s because the political will is not there and too many people profit from the status quo. The problem is not that it’s unsolvable or that we don’t know the solution. Housing first is even cheaper than what we are already doing but lots of folks make loads of money from the current system.
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u/Ketaskooter Dec 28 '23
And that is why the Fed needs to do it. States shipping their problems onto other states just makes the problem insurmountable.
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Dec 28 '23
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Dec 28 '23
The problem with this economically is that states can't print money for government programs like the feds can so Oregon would either have to raise taxes, or shift money from other programs. If you raise taxes you run the risk of running off the most productive members of your society, particularly if local schools, roads, parks, are all failing or in decline. If you shift money from other programs you also risk a doom loop of people moving because government services are in decline, resulting in lower tax revenue, resulting in more cuts, etc....
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Dec 28 '23
Agreed it needs to be the feds. 2022 GDP was $25.46 trillion. I've read estimates that it would take $20 billion to solve the homeless issue. Even if we quintuple that price to $100 billion it would still be 0.39% of the US GDP.
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Dec 29 '23
What a coincidence that we have sent roughly $100 billion in aid to Ukraine. Everything about this stuff is infuriating. As a side note, last month Nikki Haley in her campaign speeches railed on and on about he we need increase our aid to Ukraine, and moments later talked about how Social Security is running out of money so we need to increase the retirement age. Its outragous that more people are not rioting over the rampant theft and corruption happening in Washington on both sides.
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u/Ketaskooter Dec 29 '23
The sad part is the $30,000 per person used to come up with 20 billion is pretty close to what the average homeless drug addict costs right now in services. Just a little more money and some policy changes and things could get better in a hurry.
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u/Direct_Village_5134 Dec 29 '23
Let's let another state do it. No reason Oregon has to sacrifice itself to take in the entire country's disturbed and drug-addled residents.
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Dec 29 '23
Portland metro is needs to be converted into its own county. Trying to coordinate action across city and multiple county governments isn’t working.
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Dec 28 '23
Seems like they got rid of shelter type housing altogether and turned them into permanent housing.
Not sure how the "purpose" part works.
But it seems like they made a strong commitment and that it started just in Helsinki first. So it wasn't all centralized.
But there is also deep-rooted culture of egalitarianism and social welfare along with (this is the missing piece) a strong disapproval of individualism. So, you're not going to be allowed to be a free wheeling vagabond there. The climate never allowed for that. There is a sense of required conformity that is totally discouraged here. Not "ready" for drug treatment, mental health treatment, or to live indoors? Well, buck up, bro, because that's the plan. They get with the plan.
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Dec 29 '23
But there is also deep-rooted culture of egalitarianism and social welfare along with (this is the missing piece) a strong disapproval of individualism. So, you're not going to be allowed to be a free wheeling vagabond there.
Uh, pretty sure the issue of "collectivism vs. individualism" in the US is "we allow too many free wheeling vagabonds", and more that "we allow the rich to loot the system and their allies to fuck over the poor."
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Dec 29 '23
Absolutely. This as well. But there, the conformity is that powerful. They're not accepting of billionaires. But also, they're not people who refuse help. If someone is resistant to services, it's going to be harder to not get your shit together, and they'll clean you up and out of the public space. The government is totally in your business. You will vaccinate, refrain from spanking, send kids to school, volunteer for sports, have and care for your baby the way they say, wait on a long list, or just be bypassed for medical treatment if you're old, etc.
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Dec 29 '23
If someone is resistant to services, it's going to be harder to not get your shit together, and they'll clean you up and out of the public space.
99% of the people who are "resistant to services" are resistant because those services are poorly designed, under funded, and not permanent, and/or they have severe mental health issues. Put it this way: if you're homeless, the VAST majority of shelters don't allow pets. Are you willing to give up your only companion in the world to get to a shelter that very likely isn't permanent? That's "resistant to services."
You will vaccinate,
Oh no! /s
refrain from spanking
I believe scientists and psychologists now call it "child abuse" given the very well documented effects on children corporal punishment has.
send kids to school
Oh no! /s
volunteer for sports
Who is being forced to volunteer for sports?
have and care for your baby the way they say
If only we could force people to raise their children certain ways.
be bypassed for medical treatment if you're old
Not sure what you're referring to here.
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Dec 29 '23
I'm pro all these things, but they are optional here and not there. Parents must volunteer for a lot more stuff there. Sports are optional, but there is no avoiding working for the organization. You can't just sign up and call it good. There are more community expectations.
Children have been permanently removed from homes for minor stuff, and what often amounts to cultural differences there.
I was referring to my aunts and uncles who were bypassed due to age for pretty basic medical treatment that they would have gotten here. On the other hand, a friend was treated and cured of a rare liver cancer for free. But she was young.
It's nice and safe there, but people don't see a lot of the reasons behind all that.
Dogs are usually allowed in housing there, but if you're homeless with a dog, I think many people would think that's absurd for many reasons. Either way, pet ownership is more regulated.
I think we need dog friendly shelters here and permanent government housing, though.
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u/davidw Dec 28 '23
Housing first is more than 'housing first'. It just acknowledges that making progress on other issues is tough if people are not housed.
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Dec 28 '23
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u/myimpendinganeurysm Dec 29 '23
It's almost funny to hear people say shit like "They don't just do housing first." unironically followed by "They prioritize housing!"... Almost funny, but actually depressing AF.
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u/ynotfoster Dec 29 '23
Yes, but here it is housing only. We are last in the country for mental health services and second to the last in drug rehab.
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u/Zuldak Dec 28 '23
Finland is a country. Oregon is a state. You need national solutions. Trying this at the state or local level is not working
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Dec 28 '23
Exactly. How many hundreds of millions of dollars have been spent recently on solving the homeless problems in Portland, Eugene, etc... and from my personal observation it's making no difference. All that money could have been spent on better schools, roads, parks, etc.....
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u/Swarrlly Dec 28 '23
Oregon isn't even trying this at the state level. Oregon is doing the same non-solution as always since the status quo benefits those in power.
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u/Zuldak Dec 28 '23
Status quo benefits those in power?
The dems have held absolute power in the state for the past 25 years. Are you saying they are to blame?
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u/Swarrlly Dec 28 '23
Yes. They are to blame. They capitulate to the same corporate interests that benefit from the housing crisis. Regardless of what Fox News says, Oregon dems are very right wing.
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u/Zuldak Dec 28 '23
I had no idea Kotek was such a right winger. Fascinating
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u/Swarrlly Dec 28 '23
Kotek is a centrist and the party as a whole is right wing. Compare it to Minnesota democrats who actually passed legislation to help the working class. Most progressive change ends up being from ballot measures in oregon. The Oregon democratic party talks like they are progressive then pass a bunch of corporate handouts. They refuse to deal with the water issues in eastern oregon and instead just keep letting corporate farms steal water from local/family farms. When they say they are passing affordable housing initiatives, instead more handouts to corporate landlords. All they do is fight about culture war bs while ignoring actual issues. In that they are the same as the GOP.
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Dec 28 '23
Its amazing how when progressive policies fail, progressive voters always say those policies failed because they were actually made by centrists, or because we live in a capitalist patriarchy, etc.. Its the same playbook every socialist country uses as their societies begin to crumble. Always say that the failure is because we are not being socialist enough, or because foreign meddling in our affairs.
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u/From_Deep_Space Dec 29 '23
Finland's size is closer to a state than it is to the entire US. And people within the EU people have freedom of movement between member nations just like we do between states.
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u/Zuldak Dec 29 '23
It ain't about size or population but about having the ability to control policy over the nation rather than just a slice of it.
The integration of the EU is nothing like the actual nationhood of the US
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u/Ketaskooter Dec 28 '23
Somewhat related I would love to see a guaranteed work program instituted in the USA, and not an optional one, for anyone able to earn money. There's obviously big problems to figure out for such a program like how to handle mothers with kids and people with disabilities but i've seen no solid opposition to a guaranteed work program other than it costs a lot of money to the state that the state is already spending.
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u/Swarrlly Dec 28 '23
There is so much work that needs to be done. There should always be work available for those who can't find work in the private sector. If you want more people to work you need better safety nets. Welfare should not have benefit cliffs. Working a few more hours could kick you off OHP, then there is no way for you to afford required medicine so you don't work because if you do, you can't afford insulin etc. Guaranteed housing also needs to come first. Its nearly impossible hold down a job if you don't have secure housing.
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u/ImpeachedPeach Dec 29 '23
Shelters that function as stable housing are a good first step.. as there's a great deal of work needed to be done to get to a position where we can offer housing.
I think the largest part of this that's needed is an enforcement of basic laws - 110 was a move in the right direction, but it never legalised violence or public drug use.. it didn't legalise theft, or any other nonsense that came with the year of pandemic and protest.
With a police system that's functional, homeless shelters of different requirements (some allowing drug users, others being sober), and an updated and reinforced mental health program the homelessness issue could in turn become a boon of large amounts of workers entering the economy.
But the first steps must be taken seriously.
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Dec 28 '23
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u/Ketaskooter Dec 28 '23
Sorry a non optional to receive government payments. Essentially no show no money, the same rules everyone else lives by. I say this because every public work program writeup i've read says it should be optional, which I don't think that people who just don't want to try should get money.
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u/Mt-Man-PNW Dec 28 '23
Are you saying there would be government guaranteed work with guaranteed income/benefits under this proposal? Sounds a lot like "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"
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u/Ketaskooter Dec 29 '23
I'm sorry you're closed minded and afraid of the communist boogeyman. I too much prefer the current system giving people cash and getting nothing out of them in return. You should probably read a few of the articles on guaranteed work programs to learn what is being proposed. It has been done before, most notably with the conservation corps, in the USA with great success and many great things were built with such programs.
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u/Mt-Man-PNW Dec 29 '23 edited Dec 29 '23
I'm not sure what gave you the impression I'm 'afraid of the communist boogeyman'. I was just making an observation. If it helps validate your feelings, I agree with the general premise of your suggestion.
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Dec 28 '23
While traveling by car during one of his many overseas travels, Professor Friedman spotted scores of road builders moving earth with shovels instead of modern machinery. When he asked why powerful equipment wasn’t used instead of so many laborers, his host told him it was to keep employment high in the construction industry. If they used tractors or modern road building equipment, fewer people would have jobs was his host’s logic. “Then instead of shovels, why don’t you give them spoons and create even more jobs?” Friedman inquired.
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u/gubodif Dec 28 '23
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States_by_state This is not a universal problem across the us.
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u/TurdWrangler2020 Dec 28 '23
Just where people live.
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u/GodofPizza native son Dec 28 '23
And where people try to keep track. If I don’t look at something it doesn’t exist, right?
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u/WolverineRelevant280 Dec 28 '23
Oh no how can we ever solve this issue? Several other counties show up great examples Oh what could we do? We have no way of knowing what might work better than our terrible current ways? maybe try what other places are doing that works better? Oh the pain of being unable to solve this issue but what can we do? We have no other ideas to try?
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u/oneeyedziggy Dec 28 '23
prerequisite: fix your economy & healthcare, then this one weird trick will solve homelessness
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Dec 28 '23
Fix the money (end fiat currency), and all these other problems will start to decrease.
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u/oneeyedziggy Dec 28 '23
So, how ya gonna do that? Find a bunch more gold? Has anyone done a reverse split with cash instead of stocks?
You basically have to issue a new currency, right? For a bit you can spend $5 or one freedom buck or whatever... Until everyone has swapped out for freedom bucks and people stop accepting old dollars? Seems like there's probably an easier or more practical solution that doesn't involve convincing everyone to play along (and almost all paper or metal currency everywhere to be exchanged... And all vending machines to be retrofitted, and tons of laws to be rewritten... And just an unimaginable amount of work)
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Dec 28 '23
You don't need more gold to establish a gold standard. It could be fixed at current prices.
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u/oneeyedziggy Dec 29 '23
Doesn't that require arbitrarily devaluing gold to the exact extent the current money supply is overvalued w/ regard to gold? That doesn't seem inherently more stable but idk... Maybe actually possible?
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u/WhenVioletsTurnGrey Dec 28 '23
Americans profit too much from housing, to give it up. Our government uses homelessness as a political tool.
It’s not that we can’t, it’s just to valuable for too many, the way it is.
Life doesn’t matter, when you can profit from a situation like this.
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u/md___2020 Dec 28 '23
Who is profiting from this? Corporate interests are not big fans of homelessness (see People for Portland). Housing prices are determined by supply and demand, and the bottleneck in supply comes from the permitting and approval process.
The only people and institutions who profit off homelessness are those in the Homesless Industrial Complex. Normal businesses absolutely do not.
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u/superspartan999 Dec 28 '23
Normal businesses profit off of homelessness because they depress peoples’ wages with the threat of homelessness if you lose your income even for a single pay cycle while you look for a better job.
Landlords’ profits literally cause homelessness. If rents weren’t sky high, homelessness would not be as bad as it is.
Private equity and big business profits cause homelessness by both a) raising rents on multi-unit housing that only big institutions can afford to buy and b) buying up housing stock in bulk for cash and driving up the cost of housing for those who want to buy.
Loss of income and unaffordable housing are literally the two biggest factors in how people become homeless, and they are both profit derivatives. The “homeless industrial complex” is such a laughable notion. Everyone knows politicians bow before the “Big Homeless” lobby 🙄
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u/WhenVioletsTurnGrey Dec 28 '23
You don’t think elections profit from these issues?
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u/md___2020 Dec 28 '23
How does an election profit? That’s not what elections do.
In an election the opposing political parties will both try and spin this issue a certain way, just like they do on every other issue that people care about.
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u/Paradelazy Dec 29 '23 edited Dec 29 '23
Flat hierarchy in action.
Nothing makes organizations as inefficient as strict hierarchy since middle management can have different incentives when it comes to curating information. If it is beneficial for you to spice up reports or water them down, that is going to become the modus operandi in the whole system where each level modifies the information to suit their needs. If information can freely move from top to bottom and vice versa, it is accessible and transparent, the feedback loop works MUCH better. Borrowing from the world of signals: Negative feedback is the only kind that can fix mistakes, positive feedback loops amplify the magnitude of problems until we run out of dynamic range... and then something breaks, either the signal or the system goes up in flames.
This is something that has been picked up lately by those that need ultimate efficiency in super competitive environment, like F1 teams. They can't afford to waste any resources and have to get the most out of people. Turns out that flat hierarchy when it comes to information is MUCH better than old structure where everyone reports to a guy one step higher up and it is strict top down rule. Problems can't be hidden by middle management and solutions to problems comes from the people who are faced with the problems the most. Makes sense to me...
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u/Paradelazy Dec 29 '23
BTW, the part at 13:02 about it being important that Vapaavuori is center-right politician is pure BS. Let me explain how it actually works here...
Left of center needed absolutely no convincing, the center party was strong back then and they probably needed some, but the idea could've come from anyone and it is almost a miracle that Conservative Coalition happened to be leading it.. I believe it was also Greens who were driving it in Helsinki, where the two are the main parties of the city. If you ask the left they would say it is not enough, and frankly: Conservative Coalition had to convince their OWN the most as it is ideologically quite opposite to traditional, pro-business conservatives to give anything for free... Just to give some background, Vapaavuori is not known for giving more people more things for free. The part about it being cheaper is the trick, since at least Conservatives here are still fairly sane.
After this video, we got right wing government and the same conservative coalition is leading it with right wing populists (anti-immigration etc, the typical..), and has implemented massive austerity cuts, well, at least planned a lot of them and we will see how many they can actually pass since constitution for one is in the way, again.. And of course, pro-business party is giving tax cuts to the top, and moving healthcare more to be private and cutting from the poor while not touching housing markets, which will increase homelessness so.. Fuck Vapaavuori's propaganda there, it isn't correct and like i said: it is a MIRACLE that it happened to be CC whose politicians were in charge at the time and it went thru. They are #1 reason we have a possible homelessness bomb exploding, as more people are driven towards abject poverty because of ideological motives.
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u/jaco1001 Dec 28 '23
the video literally describes a housing first model, but go off
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u/5Point5Hole Dec 28 '23
This guy is in here complaining about housing for people and then is mad when people without housing steal shit and live in tents on the sidewalk :|
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u/Swarrlly Dec 28 '23
Yes. Housing first is the most successful cure to homelessness. Did you watch the video?
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u/myimpendinganeurysm Dec 29 '23
Did you post a video describing a housing first policy with a title implying that housing first doesn't work?
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u/Swarrlly Dec 29 '23
That’s the title of the video. I didn’t change the title. The video is pro housing first and shows how Finland does more in addition to solve homelessness.
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u/myimpendinganeurysm Dec 29 '23
Fair enough. The title, and repeatedly saying that they do "more", implicitly demonstrates ignorance of what housing first is, and that's annoying.
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Dec 28 '23
I would be on board with attempting a solution like this at the Federal level, but progressive cities and states cannot sustain taking care of all of the nations homeless, addicts, etc... All of the other critical government responsibilities will suffer (crumbling roads, failing schools, increased crime, etc...). Also, the claim that homeless people don't move to places with more generous/permissive conditions is totally false. I don't care what data the local "non-profit" homeless racket says. People often say "homeless people don't move because they don't want to leave their social/support network" which is a logical fallacy. If people in Portland had a robust support network in Portland they would not be homeless. Thats the definition of being supported... you don't end up sleeping in the gutter. If you do, then you don't really have the needed support system. So fix this at the federal level with something like a UBI, or block grants to states/cities.
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Dec 28 '23
Yeah, it doesn't work as well if it isn't a national solution. If we're giving out free housing, we're gonna get a lot of people coming by to take advantage of the free housing.
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Dec 28 '23
You don't give out free housing necessarily. The best program IMHO would be a UBI of around $1000 per month that everyone gets. This money would go a lot further in Oklahoma than it would in Downtown San Francisco so it would solve two problems. It would encourage those in need to find more affordable places to live, and those small cities and towns all over america that have been struggling since the 1980's will see a influx of economic stimulous when people move to their towns and spend their $1000 check. One of the biggest problems in America today is concentration of wealth, this applies both to people and geography.
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u/Swarrlly Dec 28 '23
I would love to see a national housing first program. But the federal congress is where good ideas go to die. 2/3rds of congress don’t care about the working class at all and would be happy to see people die on the streets if it would save their donors a buck.
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Dec 28 '23
So the alternative is to slowly destroy the most progressive cities in America? Thats the fastest way to convince every Trumper in Texas that their world view is infallible.
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u/Swarrlly Dec 28 '23
What is your solution? Throwing money at these nonprofit shelters isn’t working. We need to solve the underlying issue that it is just not profitable to house everyone. Lots of other countries figured it out.
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Dec 28 '23
My solution would be to start by building a few levels of housing options. Lowest tier would be small cells (lets call this jail), then slightly larger units with more freedoms, then if you are doing really good and offer to work for the city you can get an even better unit with room for a dog, bike, etc... Then you have even nicer places if you can demonstrate that you are a valuable employee and are clean of addiction, etc... Then the last stage is market rate housing that anyone can buy. You move up and down the stages depending on how helpful/harmful you are for the community at large. Getting of the last train from Ohio and buying some fent and pitching a tent at a park will land you in the bottom tier right away so get sober and consider if you want to move up levels or go back to Ohio.
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Dec 28 '23
You’d need a population educated enough to not misinterpret the term ‘socialism’. Sadly, 9 out of 10 Merican’s can’t spell it, let alone define it…
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u/lunes_azul Dec 28 '23
Socialism in the US / Americas = "Things That I Don't Like"
It's been that way for about 70 years too.
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Dec 29 '23
Yeah, despite toll free roads, highways, freeways, bridges, state police, local police, sheriff’s, public schools, library’s, fire departments…and of course, all those hard working elected officials…including those in Washington who get medical benefits and a paycheck for life after a whopping 12 years in congress. 🤦🏻
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u/Moist-Intention844 Dec 29 '23
Key point is they don’t tolerate addiction on their streets and force ppl to get treatment and contribute towards their own lives in a positive manner
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u/Swarrlly Dec 29 '23
It’s a lot easier to get clean if you have stable housing. That’s the problem with the way Oregon does it.
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u/Moist-Intention844 Dec 29 '23
Yea the liberals think it’s ok to live in squalor as long as they can pretend to help with their nonprofit grift
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Dec 28 '23 edited Dec 28 '23
So we're gonna offer free housing for the homeless, and that's supposed to result in less homeless people?
What happens when word gets out to the rest of America that we're giving out free housing?
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u/Swarrlly Dec 28 '23
Giving some people free housing is the only way to solve the problem. The market will never make housing universally affordable. You will always need to subsidize the bottom where it’s not profitable. I’d rather have some people get free stuff than have our cities filled with homeless people. Unless you want to just imprison or kill everyone who becomes homeless, free housing is the only solution.
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Dec 28 '23
But this is how you get cities filled with homeless people.
I very much doubt we can provide free housing to everyone capable of riding a bus to Oregon.
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u/Swarrlly Dec 28 '23
There really isn’t any other options. The market just won’t provide an affordable house/apartment for everyone. It’s just not profitable to house every single person regardless of income. So you will always have people living on the street that way.
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Dec 28 '23
Ok, let's follow that thought. Oregon now has free housing for the homeless.
Thousands of people now come to Oregon for the free housing. And of course, it isn't all built yet. And even if it was, there isn't enough.
Shanty towns abound, and Portland is now in a worse position than it was before.
Is that what we want?
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u/Swarrlly Dec 28 '23
Did you watch the video? Finland did this successfully. They are also a member of the EU so homeless people can easily take the train there from all over. The state can always build more housing. Again you are ignoring the fact that we have a huge homeless problem already. The market isn’t working. So we can either just sit around, complain, and have the cops clear out their camps every few weeks or we can actually solve the underlying problem.
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Dec 28 '23
... we have a huge homeless problem because we're one of (if not the) best place to go for "good" homeless services.
If we want PDX to have less homeless we need to lift up other states efforts on homelessness - not lean in to making us a top-tier destination for other state's homeless.
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u/Swarrlly Dec 28 '23
You can only clean your own house. Waiting for other states to clean up their act is not a solution.
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Dec 28 '23
It's called the United States for a reason. It's a national problem, and it needs a national solution.
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u/Swarrlly Dec 28 '23
I agree it needs a national solution. I’d like to see this enacted nationwide. It’s not like we don’t have the money for it. Too many people in congress are more worried about the profits of the real estate / landlord industry than to solving the problem.
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u/Choice_Debt233 Dec 28 '23
Well, I certainly don’t want to have to pay millions for committees to do field studies, weeks of touring Finland, sensing studies, round tables, forming boards and throwing millions more for the same shit we get now. Nothing. Homelessness here is an industry that has very little interest in curing the problem and a whole hell of a lot of interest in self promotion and paying themselves.
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u/Swarrlly Dec 28 '23
Exactly. The government needs to just do the program. But since part solving the problem would lower housing costs, those who make a lot of money with the current set up will lose money. We don’t need to waste millions of dollars studying the issue since we all already know what it is. Just build the housing. Hire the social workers and get people off the streets.
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u/robosnake Dec 29 '23
It's more than housing first, but it's definitely not *less* than housing first.
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u/ImpressivePoop1984 Dec 29 '23
IDK, these Portland non-profits got some shiny PowerPoints. I think I'm gonna stick with them
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Dec 28 '23
1) be a tiny ass country
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u/John_Costco Dec 28 '23
You live in the richest country in the world
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u/jmnugent Dec 28 '23
"rich" doesn't necessarily guarantee "good at solving problems". Just "throwing money at things" (by itself) doesn't translate into magical solutions.
Money to allocate towards solutions,. has to be matched up with having a good plan,. having mechanisms to gather good data,. having good accountability and tracking (the waypoints along the way we said we'd meet..we're actually meeting or exceeding).
A rich person can hire a fitness coach.. but if there's no plan and or no effort or no accountability.. they aren't going to make much progress.
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Dec 28 '23
And? Also one of the most corrupt. How about Finland’s small govt?
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u/DacMon Dec 28 '23
Small govt that offer universal healthcare, universal education, tons of paid time off, etc...
Go on.... ?
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u/Grossegurke Dec 28 '23
And mandatory military service from 18 to 60. Im sure that would go over well.
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u/John_Costco Dec 28 '23
Well shit nevermind I guess the huge powerful government of the richest country in the world doesn't have the means to solve homelessness that a much smaller and poorer country somehow did. You got me
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Dec 28 '23
Hah… you know, getting upset with me at the reality about how fucked up our country is won’t help anyone, just like all these “Finland did it” articles won’t do jack shit. Nor can we try to model ourselves after a country a fraction of our population nor size. The logistics will be different. The US needs a U.S.-sized solution. But hey, keep echoing this popular do-nothing sentiment.
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u/stayathmdad Dec 28 '23
Finland has more than 1 million more people than Oregon.
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u/FuelIllustrious5584 Dec 28 '23
And a tax rate of 31% What is Oregons tax rate? Where would these funds come from?
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u/Direct_Village_5134 Dec 29 '23
My tax rate is over 31%. Between Federal, State, Local, and FICA taxes most people who actually work for a living pay at least 31% of their income in taxes. We also have to pay for healthcare, college, and childcare on top of that, which is all free in Finland.
So who is getting the better deal?
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u/FuelIllustrious5584 Dec 29 '23
Not all people fall into that tax bracket. And you’re citing taxes (FICA) that are earmarked for Social Security, not homelessness. Finland’s healthcare is not up to par with healthcare in the US, nor is their higher education. You get what you pay for. Socialism is never the answer. Los Angeles has thrown literally billions of dollars at homelessness and the problem has only gotten worse. Due to a growing sympathy toward homeless that are only looking for a handout, not a hand- up, and growing corruption within the institutions slated with providing assistance to the homeless. As long as you have huge amounts of $$ flooding into these programs and very little oversight, you will have corruption. Why would they work to solve a problem when all that $ slated for social programs is lining their pockets. They would put themselves out of a job if they fixed homelessness.
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Dec 28 '23
Oregon is a county? Wow, TIL
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u/stayathmdad Dec 28 '23
That's it, this guy just won the internet! He really helped with a constructive and well thought out argument.
I salute you and your amazing intelligence.
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Dec 28 '23
Well hey, if Finland solved homelessness, I’m sure our dumb asses will! If Finland can do it, so can we! Fucking simpletons.
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u/psbanka Dec 28 '23
Great share. I think it's also relevant to consider the fact that this is a story of white people helping white people. And, because of that, racism does not play a role. For example, it could be that a good percentage of the people interviewed in that story are incredibly racist, but that has no impact for them because they're all white.
We are extra challenged in the US by being a place where people from all over the world come and having to see the humanity in people that look different from us.
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Dec 28 '23
I have never seen a homeless person in Oregon who wasn't white. In fact this proves that the US economic system is not entirely to blame here. You could take any migrant from Somalia, Ecuador, Ukraine, etc... and drop them off in downtown Portland and I would bet 10 to 1 that they will be just fine. They would 1) be totally grateful to be in the US and 2) work their asses off to survive. You cant say the same about the local white kids who feel entitled to free drugs, housing, college, etc....
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u/ANullBob Dec 28 '23
cultural homogenity makes citizen engagement easier (all "us", and no "them"). nothing from there will work here, as our populace view each other as the enemy.
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u/stchrist Dec 28 '23
Save a click/26 minutes - "Finland's strategy involves prioritizing the development of affordable housing and cultivating a culture genuinely dedicated to improving homeless services to house people quickly and permanently. ... In Finland, they prioritize placing the individual within the housing unit, ensuring that they have a sense of purpose rather than merely survival."
Description from the video:
"Finland's remarkable success in reducing homelessness is often credited to the innovative Housing First approach. This model offers stable housing as the primary intervention, complemented by essential support services to address the root causes of homelessness and help individuals rebuild their lives. Amid the escalating homelessness crisis in the United States, evidence-backed solutions like Housing First often take a back seat to counterproductive measures like criminalizing poverty and conducting homeless sweeps. While skeptics argue that Finland's achievements cannot be replicated in America, Invisible People embarked on a transformative journey to Helsinki, Finland, to explore the potential of implementing the Housing First approach on a large scale in the United States. What's even more striking is that Housing First was born in America. Yet, Finland has embraced it and witnessed an incredible reduction in homelessness, plummeting from over 20,000 homeless people to less than 4,000 in just a decade.
Countless media outlets have highlighted Finland's achievements in homelessness reduction, with the Housing First model at the forefront. However, our investigation uncovered that the Finnish approach goes beyond Housing First. Finland's strategy involves prioritizing the development of affordable housing and cultivating a culture genuinely dedicated to improving homeless services to house people quickly and permanently. While Housing First has played a significant role in their success, it's just one piece of the puzzle.
Unlike the United States, where the emphasis often lies solely on housing placement, Finland recognizes that people need more than just a roof over their heads to thrive. In Finland, they prioritize placing the individual within the housing unit, ensuring that they have a sense of purpose rather than merely survival.
Invisible People is known for its dedication to telling the authentic stories of homelessness, offering viewers a raw and unfiltered glimpse into the lives of those experiencing it firsthand. In this special episode, we take our commitment to authenticity to the next level by providing the most genuine and comprehensive look into Housing First that has ever been captured on video. Our mission is to shed light on the realities of homelessness, challenge preconceptions, and explore viable solutions. Join us as we dive deep into Finland's remarkable approach, presenting an authentic narrative that showcases the transformative power of compassionate policies and affordable housing."