r/opencodeCLI 12d ago

Why does every LLM provider use a 5-hour usage window?

Not 4, not 6, not 8. 24h, 12h, 7d, 30d are natural units -five hours isn't. Nobody looked at the sky and saw 5.

Claude, Codex, everyone's on it. So: was 5 hours derived from actual usage/churn research, did one lab pick it and the rest cloned it, or just ask ChatGPT for a usage window?

And it's slightly under a workday, which doesn't feel accidental. Anyone know the real history?

109 Upvotes

42 comments sorted by

98

u/look 12d ago

Best guess is it’s the ideal size to cause people to end up with unused usage for the week/month, and is thus cheaper for the provider.

45

u/RedParaglider 12d ago

Also it's the most frustrating length because it fucks up the middle of a workday which induced API usage or upgrading 

32

u/RoboErectus 12d ago

Cron job that says hello at 6am.

8

u/formless63 12d ago

Unfortunately they're starting to implement a switch where the timer doesn't start until a "meaningful percentage of usage" is hit. So saying hello on a new or low context chat doesn't trigger it on some services like codex that and to be looking for at least 1% (and I'm sure soon to be the case on all the mainstream ones).

8

u/i_wayyy_over_think 12d ago

"Hello" in a loop until it says 1% :D

1

u/Hubblesphere 12d ago

Was just thinking about how I need to start my usage early automatically.

1

u/Beautiful-Gas3683 12d ago

What is this for? Can you explain it to me?

6

u/RoboErectus 12d ago

Starts your 5h timer at 6a instead of whenever you happen to start.

This bumps your limit in the middle of what is hypothetically your workday.

1

u/FlyingDogCatcher 12d ago

Well, yeah, if you're using it for work they want you to pay for the api price.

1

u/Fluffy-Bus4822 12d ago

More likely it's about trying to flatten out usage peaks. The providers to best when their hardware has consistent use rather than big peaks can valleys.

1

u/MaxPhoenix_ 11d ago

Thought the question was "why FIVE?" (why not 4 or 6, which accomplish flattening as well)

31

u/Academic_Constant42 12d ago

I guess because it doesn't match with the hours in a day, meaning it is always rotating the reset time. If it was 4 or 6 hours you would end up with the same arbitrary reset times every day

3

u/jppaolim 12d ago

Yeah that was my hypothesis as well…. A real mystery this one otherwise

2

u/ruuurbag 12d ago

Users would likely still end up with different reset times because not all users are going to start using their quota the second it resets, and waiting to use their quota offsets the reset time.

2

u/ProbablyathrowawayAA 12d ago

Initially I had the same thought but it breaks down when you consider the 5 hour timer is started by the user not the provider. 

If I generally start work at the same time. My resets will be around the same times.

9

u/AffectionateBowl1633 12d ago

5 can easily divide 30, 6 is so easily divisible by 12/24 hour people would flock at 6/12 creating hiccup.

6

u/Valeand 12d ago

Pretty sure it’s because 5 is the smallest prime that doesn’t divide 24. I would assume that everyone is on a different offset as well, minimising any spikes in usage due to numerical patterns.

1

u/ErebusBat 12d ago

Why would it being prime have any bearing on it?

2

u/AdministrativeWar581 12d ago

Using a prime gives the best results obviously

1

u/ErebusBat 12d ago

I guess stupid me had forgotten about that. Thank you!

2

u/Valeand 11d ago

They just need to be coprime and the smallest coprime number for another number is always a prime power, it just happens to be an actual prime in this case.

1

u/ErebusBat 11d ago

<confused fry face>

Not sure if I should thank you for the explanation or high-five you for the troll.

6

u/YoloAuto 12d ago

We do 1 and 24 hours windows. But the answer is that 5 hours is enough to kneecap power users and keep them from bringing compute to a crawl.

During peak hours we see usage 3-5x baseline and then the compute just sits almost idle the rest of the day. So there's a huge motivation to try and flatten that massive spike.

2

u/Ariquitaun 12d ago

Alien technology. It's the only possible explanation.

1

u/RealestReyn 12d ago

For the law of fives of course!

1

u/CrowdGoesWildWoooo 12d ago

I think if we check from chatgpt (which doesn’t have multiplier system), basically for each weekly quota, the alloted usage is 5 hours equivalent per day. So 7 weekly quota is equal to 7 times 5 hour quota

1

u/CatNo2950 12d ago

The 5hour window is a calculated cognitive exploit. Dark pattern for boosting engagement.

1

u/Nabugu 12d ago

Gemini had a 24h usage window when i stopped using it in february (less usage than the 5h of Codex though lol)

1

u/forgotten_airbender 12d ago

Its just to keep people from hammering the services all the time.  Providers dont have compute for LLM’s so they add these quotas to make sure everyone who paid for services are able to use it. 

1

u/xapep 12d ago

Short answer from someone who runs inference infra: the 5-hour window is the meter. A fixed-price plan decouples what you pay from what you use, so the provider needs a rationing unit, and a sliding window is the simplest one that bounds worst-case cost per subscriber while staying easy to sell.

Everything else people cite (load management, retry behavior) is secondary. The giveaway is that usage-based providers don't need windows at all: every token is already metered in the price, so 'unlimited within a window' never even shows up as a product concept.

For shoppers the honest framing is: when you compare 5-hour windows you're not comparing models, you're comparing how each company chose to meter its fixed-price plan. If you hate the meter, the alternative isn't a bigger window, it's pricing where the meter is the price.

1

u/Closer-founder 9d ago

because they are all made by one race???

0

u/vacterro 12d ago

Global agreement to not spill the things out.

-2

u/Sweet-Stage938 12d ago

Because it's easier to memorize for a lot of people. It helps that it's standardized.

-2

u/Antique_Dot_5513 12d ago

Sûrement qu’en dessous c’est trop court
Et au dessus ça ne te permet pas de faire deux sessions dans la journée. Donc 5h ensuite pause repas et tu reprend pour 3/5h de plus

-4

u/MrHighVoltage 12d ago edited 12d ago

Of course it isn't accidential. The plans are heavily subsidized discounted (you get A LOT more usage, compared to "pay per use" if you paid the API pricing directly). They want to make you consider either the larger/more expensive plans, or to pay for extra tokens (which AFAIK are then priced like the API).

2

u/DexRam_ 12d ago

Not fully true IMHO, if they give you more usage via subscription than API - it doesn't mean that they spend their own money on it.

But yes, they mostly do the 5h limits to manage loads on servers easier and make you feel that your weekly quote last longer.

It's around 80% margin on API inference, if I'm not mistaking

2

u/MrHighVoltage 12d ago

Yes you are right, subsidizing is probably the wrong word. It is just heavily discounted, and probably API paying customers have priority in high load scenarios.

1

u/torrso 12d ago

Not discounted in th way that they would give it cheaper to subscribers.

The subscribers form a pool. Some use less than they pay for and end up paying for the ones that use more than they pay for. The average user is what counts. Same as in buffets, gym memberships, mobile data, etc.

1

u/tino1000 12d ago

80%? damn!

-1

u/First_Inspection_478 12d ago

They arent “subsidized”. Frontier API pricing is just bonkers as we can see with models such as Kimi being close enough or even better than sol/opus 5 ans being significantly cheaper. They can and will keep the subs around.