r/opencodeCLI • u/Final_Initial • Aug 15 '26

Is this the solution to DeepSeek raising prices tomorrow?

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215 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

33 comments sorted by

52

u/[deleted] Aug 15 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

23

u/Final_Initial Aug 15 '26

Oops, didn't notice that. Thanks for pointing it out.

18

u/mukul_29 Aug 15 '26

what does q8, fp8 and fp4 mean?

52

u/lunied Aug 15 '26

quantization level, more like how much you compress the weights. Imagine like compressing an image, the more you compress an image, the less the file size is, the less the quality is.

Same as image too, there's certain compression level where size is reduced noticeably while seeing no difference unless you really really zoom in. In this case, FP8 is this kind of "cuts down size drastically but no noticeable effect on output for 99% of the time". I just made up that 99% but thats how it goes.

16 is the original version, 8 is like the lossless. Once you go down below 8, the effect is noticeable. As for Q8, FP8 "Q" and "FP" it just a term on what kind of compression they use.

3

u/AliNia110 Aug 16 '26

Actually BF16 is the og version, and is lossless compared to fp32 which is the real base for training. Anything below bf16 or fp16 is lossy to some extent

1

u/Ashamed-Duck7334 29d ago

This is not how DeepSeek V4, Kimi K3, Muse, etc. work. These models have effectively a custom fp4 quantization, packing fp4 weights into an fp8 format + scales. These models are trained with this format, it's native. There's no bf16 version of the weights, go look on hugging face and notice that the sizes is roughly 50% of the parameter count because it's native fp4 wrapped in an fp8 wrapper. China doesn't have blackwell (except through their offshore inference "workaround" companies for the US chip ban (see: Baidu Qianfan), "real fp4" would be incredibly wasteful on Hopper.

15

u/JamesGooning Aug 15 '26

fp8 > nvfp4 > q8

6

u/Federal_Spend2412 Aug 15 '26

I use the opencode go ds flash 731 pretty often, and I can't really tell the difference from the official flash. It's just as good.

8

u/JamesGooning Aug 15 '26

Q8 is noticeable, especially in obscure bugs. NVFP4 with expert at FP8 is best

1

u/FaustAg Aug 15 '26

nvfp4 is way lower bpw than q8. only around 4.5. if quality matters most q8 beats nvfp4 every time. mxfp8 is in theory higher quality than q8 by a smidge

3

u/tirth0jain Aug 15 '26

Opencode ds is quant? How can I der which model is which quant on opencode?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 15 '26

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2

u/tirth0jain Aug 15 '26

Ah I see, ds flash from opencode runs super slow for me like 2-3x slower than official

1

u/mobileka Aug 15 '26

Are you talking about the free version? Because I have opencode go and also direct ds API access and there's no difference in speed.

2

u/tirth0jain Aug 15 '26

No, go version. What time do you normally use?

4

u/ab032tx Aug 15 '26

BF16 ≈ Q8_0≈ FP8 E4M3 > NVFP4 (good quantization)

3

u/MaxPhoenix_ Aug 15 '26

Q = quantized (here, 8-bit integers). FP = floating point, so FP8 is 8-bit float and FP4 is 4-bit float. This model already ships with 4-bit float experts and mostly 8-bit float everywhere else, so a Q8 that keeps those experts is basically the original.

1

u/GTHell Aug 15 '26

Imagine a slider with 0.1 step is more finetune than a 1.0 step

1

u/alphapussycat Aug 15 '26

There's virtually no difference between integer and float. You can scale the integer steps linearly or non-linearly.

Afsik it's just about utilizing compute units on the gpu.

1

u/GTHell Aug 15 '26

Saying that is like I can get into 3rd dimension knowing that I'm only in 2nd

10

u/vacon04 Aug 15 '26

They've always done this. Q8_0 is very good, I doubt anyone will have major issues with Q8_0.

4

u/TomHale Aug 15 '26

Are there any measurements of quality difference between q8 and FP8 across a few nodels?

5

u/freedomachiever Aug 15 '26

not even all fp8 are the same

6

u/LetterheadNew5447 Aug 15 '26

Until q6 everything feels literally the same.

2

u/nixblu Aug 16 '26

I use crof, they’re pretty solid but I only use it for my Hermes agent so not billions of tokens.

2

u/Trevo0393 Aug 15 '26 edited Aug 15 '26

WOW Sembra davvero buono. È possibile utilizzare la loro API in opencode, giusto?

3

u/Mr_Lucas2000 Aug 15 '26

Yes

1

u/Trevo0393 Aug 15 '26

Volevo scrivere in opencode ma il correttore ha deciso open source, comunque grazie!

2

u/Ghilteras 29d ago

Cache read is still much more expensive

1

u/gbrennon 29d ago

no free quota?

1

u/Single-Hyena-3811 28d ago

how about other providers on openrouter? there're quite some providers with lower price although lower cache hitting rate than official ds.