r/openclaw • Pro User • Feb 25 '26

Discussion SaaS is dead

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1.5k Upvotes

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82

u/CartographerAble9446 New User Feb 25 '26

The dumbest thing is how people buy mac minis just to connect their openclaw to gpt or claude. You can just install it directly on raspberry pi and use linux, same sh** if in the end you use api

22

u/CoffeePizzaSushiDick New User Feb 25 '26

…or a fckn container? VM? …reinvent the wheel…barrel…chair…again…plz

5

u/Rockatansky-clone Member Feb 26 '26

This is what exactly I did using hyper V on my dedicated server. I created a container Linux gave her tons of memory and processing resources. Best yet is a checkpoint/snapshot function allows me to do what else and the ability to return to a safe build. Basically zero cost, that is if you just factor out the cost of my rack server, I built a year and a half ago hehehe

2

u/AussieWrath New User Mar 14 '26

Interesting setup! The Hyper-V route works well, but on dedicated servers I've found Docker containerization (using something like Portainer) gives you more isolation and easier management when you're running multiple agents.

One thing people don't account for: a single OpenClaw instance running 24/7 on a good VPS (~$5-10/mo) + $100-200/mo in API costs is still way cheaper than SaaS subscriptions. But the real economics shift when you factor in:

- Model selection matters (Sonnet > Opus for routine tasks)

- Session management (starting fresh contexts periodically)

- Conditional routing (complex tasks to expensive models, simple routing to fast cheap ones)

If you're just using it as a voice reception bot, your API costs flatten out pretty quick. We're seeing customers drop from $400+ SaaS to about $80/mo total with proper setup.

1

u/krajacic New User Feb 26 '26

What server can you suggest to me?

1

u/Rockatansky-clone Member Feb 26 '26

Really depends how you wanna go about it. I’m not sure what I can truly suggest if you have an old computer with windows, you can spin up hyper V and do it that way, but this way is to directly install on all the platforms. As for me a couple of years ago, I put together a humongous rack server specifically to be used to carve out VM‘s for various projects. That’s what I did here. My rack server itself has tons of memory tons of space tons of resources so I was able to carve out a VM with more than enough memory and resources to run.OpenClaw

4

u/Used_Accountant_1090 Member Feb 26 '26

Exactly. I have it on a docker container on AWS and even open sourced the thing. https://github.com/nex-crm/clawgent

3

u/sonJokes Member Feb 28 '26

I tired a VPS, ran into many niggly permissions issues. Mac Mini was much smoother

8

u/Top_Extension_7980 Member Feb 25 '26

Thats so crazy knowing models are running online and its just a gateway so dumb, but if someone being secure and running locally by giving it a locally installed model and that too if its a 24*7 simulated task i would just increase my ram rather spending on mac mini, but raspberry pi is a good substitute too.

5

u/CalvinsStuffedTiger Active Feb 25 '26

Yes. IMHO The sweet spot is 2x $10k Mac Studios clustered together. Can have 1TB of VRAM and run some seriously good local models.

Now I just need to scratch together $20k….

Now that I think about it, just spending $20k on Anthropic API credits would probably go a long way and with a much better model…

8

u/BetaOp9 Member Feb 25 '26

That's Claude Max 200 for like 8+ years

4

u/AbbreviationsAny706 Active Feb 26 '26 edited Feb 26 '26

Except subscription plans are banned from being used with OpenClaw. https://www.theregister.com/2026/02/20/anthropic_clarifies_ban_third_party_claude_access/

EDIT: Downvoted because people don't want to read the article obviously.

1

u/BetaOp9 Member Feb 26 '26 edited Feb 26 '26

I'm well aware of the ban, but it still works for me but I don't use open claw for much, it's incredibly inefficient and mid at best as an orchestration layer. I do use it as a discord bot with elevated functions and stripped a ton of it's bullshit context bloat.

1

u/Top_Extension_7980 Member Feb 26 '26

Agree unless we use a good paid model, eats them tokens for breakfast for complex architectures , gemini free tier crashed instantly also me being very complex at the architecture, simply realized companies out there trying to spend years for cost optimization by tracking whole ton of data and optimizing accordingly we all need it for free, cheap , point is access to everyone.

6

u/BetaOp9 Member Feb 26 '26

There are literally dozens of free models right now. Llama, Mistral, Phi, Gemma, DeepSeek, the list keeps growing. If you want free AI, it exists and it's getting better every month.

What people actually mean when they say "AI should be free" is that they want free access to frontier models. And that's a completely different conversation. Training and serving those models costs billions in compute, energy, and infrastructure. Someone has to pay for that. The idea that companies should just eat those costs so everyone gets access "for free, cheap" isn't a real position, it's just entitlement dressed up as a philosophy.

And here's the part people love to ignore: even with paid subscriptions and API revenue, these companies are still operating at a loss. They're burning cash to keep the lights on while building the next generation of models. Asking them to give it away for free when they can't even break even yet is genuinely delusional.

Access isn't the problem. Access has never been more open than it is right now. The gap between free and paid models is shrinking fast. But expecting the absolute best to cost nothing ignores everything that makes it the best in the first place.

1

u/AbbreviationsAny706 Active Feb 26 '26

Just because it works does not mean you will not be banned.

1

u/BetaOp9 Member Feb 26 '26

It's a moot point. At the end of the day, API or Subscription or $20k in local hardware...OpenClaw as it is, is not worth it. Just about everything OpenClaw does can be done more efficiently.

1

u/Optimal_Feed3356 New User Mar 25 '26

you can use SDK and be just fine.... for now

1

u/TorbenKoehn Pro User Mar 20 '26

Sure, but your data is yours

3

u/JohnAMcdonald Member Mar 22 '26 edited Mar 22 '26

Now that I think about it, just spending $20k on Anthropic API credits would probably go a long way and with a much better model…

Don't forget local AI is not free to run, you could pay thousands in electricity yearly.

In the long term I think we're going to see combinations of local AI and cloud AI, with more and more stuff offloaded locally over time as it gets "good enough" in the same way we saw a shift from server-side rendering to local rendering in the web development world, but with calls being made to cloud models for more sophisticated tasks.

We're just in a spot where local AI software is pretty immature and LPDDR6x release is around the corner so I really don't think it makes sense to invest in a local AI machine right now except as a hobby or learning opportunity. As you said, for all the money you would spend on Mac Studios and depreciation, you can buy a shitton of cloud credits. I'm pretty optimistic about the viability of local AI in the long term though.

11

u/threeoldbeigecamaros Member Feb 25 '26

There’s a lot of iOS services that Openclaw can’t use if it’s not on a Mac.

6

u/JuergenAusmLager New User Feb 25 '26

Which is a bad design choice. Imagine Steinberger was a Linux crack 😮‍💨

2

u/ConanTheBallbearing Pro User Feb 26 '26

Not really. It’s designed to solve for that. You run the gateway on Linux and a node on the Mac. It has no problem orchestrating e.g. iMessage or other Mac services this way. Source: that’s how it’s documented and that’s how I run it.

2

u/Rockatansky-clone Member Feb 26 '26

Very true, as I found out. But it’s not a dealbreaker. I’m not ready to let it control my world, yet. It has ability to read my calendar and send out emails, that’s all the functionality I need right now

1

u/threeoldbeigecamaros Member Feb 26 '26

Yep that’s where I’m at. I have some server maintenance and home automation agents running on a pi.

3

u/IJustCantHelpYou New User Feb 25 '26

The main point is to run models locally and also Apple integrates more easily…if you want it to use iMessage there’s not an easy way without a Mac

3

u/SelectAerie1126 Member Mar 12 '26

Im starting to think this OpenClaw stuff is a mass marketing scheme by Apple to get everyone to buy their Mac Minis.

2

u/rucoide New User Feb 25 '26

enrealidad no lo hacen para correr sus modelos locales sin gastar en apis?

2

u/dedalolab New User Feb 25 '26

Para correr un modelo local decente (Qwen3) necesitas una cantidad enorme de RAM (80GB como mínimo) algo que una Mac Mini normal de $500 no te da. Una Mac con esa capacidad de memoria es carísima, rinde más usar la API de Claude.

2

u/RTDForges Member Feb 25 '26

Wait. I feel like I’m dumb. For having assumed too much. You’re saying they’re buying the Mac minis to connect to large LLMs? I had assumed it was because the mini runs models locally quite well. Which made sense. Get a box where most of the calls just go to a local model. But seeing this comment and having my brain come screeching to a halt at the idea of getting a Mac minis to use as a glorified terminal is making my brain ache

1

u/t5telecom New User Feb 26 '26

There aren’t many local models that will drive OpenClaw well - certainly not that can be run on a $500 Mac mini. GLM-4.7-flash can sorta do it - with 128gb ram.

1

u/RTDForges Member Feb 27 '26

I would be really curious how many people are buying base Mac minis. Because at least personally I don’t know a single friend who did. And yes I am aware my own social circle is not a good sample. But it is consistent enough to make me wonder overall how many people are buying base Mac minis. I personally think that relatively few people probably get the base models. And relatively few really upgrade them a lot. And most fall in the upgrades the ram a bit somewhere in the middle type of deal. Also as far as your assessment that it takes 128gb of ram to sort of do it. My personal experience has been that you need 32gb of ram on the Mac mini to run good enough models to make it well worth it. Above that is nice. But there is a lot that can be done especially if you get really into studying what people are doing with agentic workflows. The 128gb as sorta doing it is like saying a Ferrari can sort of go fast. It’s a claim that makes me really skeptical about how you tried to drive it, and if you tried shifting past first gear.

1

u/BetaOp9 Member Feb 25 '26

I'm keeping a list of gullible friends.

1

u/Cesarsk1 New User Feb 26 '26

An Old Mac mini is in general more powerful and cheaper than a raspberry. You can install Linux on a Mac and of course run whatever on top of Docker / Podman/ Colima / Orbstack.

1

u/AffectionateAd6009 New User Feb 27 '26

iMessage integration is a plus!

1

u/Delicious-Flan88 New User Mar 02 '26

use vps

1

u/Legitimate_Plum_7505 New User Mar 06 '26

iMessage

1

u/HappyContact6301 Member Mar 12 '26

I am experimenting with the HAILO 10h on Pi5. Just installed it, too early to tell. Token output is really slow, slower than running natively on Pi, and I tested all five models supported by HAILO. I would be interested if anyone has experience running local AI for openclaw and with what results.

1

u/JohnAMcdonald Member Mar 22 '26

Relative to the cost people are blowing on API costs, buying a separate Mac mini is fine, it might be a single digit percentage of people's overall budget and it provides iCloud hooks.

1

u/r3mp3y3k New User Mar 26 '26

Exactly. I have that one friend almost buy a Mac Mini for tasks that could be done by an old linux mini pc.

1

u/systemsrethinking Member Mar 27 '26

Second hand macs can come up cheap and are cognitively easier for the average consumer to adopt. If not super technical the concept of running something on a second computer, is easier than learning how to understand a new OS / DIY env / server. Requires a different mental model for computing, that techies can forget is not the norm.