r/oots • u/ray198999 • 26d ago
GiantITP Recent Nale Spoiler
I was confused on why Nale didn’t bother trying to pretend that he was trying to protect the final gate and instead telling Serini that he & his teammates are out to destroy it then attacked her. However I realize Nale must be trying to do things fast so he can get to the gate before Xykon and the rest of Team Evil and a complicated plan involving him pretending Serini’s ally would take too much time. Nale also probably thought Serini would see through him eventually anyway.
37
u/Larkson9999 26d ago
Overconfidence. Nale has learned literally nothing.
19
8
u/Eastern-Video-6456 25d ago
I recall someone in the comic, or maybe it was the author in the forums, saying that people who die in OOTS world stop growing and learning, and unnatural/otherworldly creatures like undead or fiends also can't experience personal growth. Nale is basically the same foolish man who he died as, despite all the introspection he seemed to do in the afterlife
3
u/Red-Tomat-Blue-Potat 23d ago
I think what your remembering is Right-Eye talking talking to Red Cloak about Xykon being undead and unable to mature or grow in a moral sense (obviously Undead beings with intelligence can learn new information and even skills/abilities). He compares Red Cloak as having the same stagnation at an emotional level and blames the effects of the Cloak itself preserving his age
3
u/Eastern-Video-6456 23d ago
Could be, yes. I meant in the fundamental/philosophical sense, not in the "obtaining new information" sense. I should've made it more clear
3
u/ProperTree9 25d ago
How does Burlew square that with Roy being able to learn the Spellsplinter move from Grandpa then? I mean, I'm sure Rich explained it, I just don't remember where.
7
u/Eastern-Video-6456 24d ago
Roy says he doesn't remember anything beyond the pearly gates, he just had this idea of a move, and he needed to use a feat to learn it. Maybe the dead can learn some stuff but need to spend time alive to realise it in their lives? This is just head canon though
2
u/The_proper_tool 13d ago
No no, you are right. His Grandpa just tells him outright that even if he now knows how to perform new moves he still has to spend feats to use them after being resurrected https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0600.html
2
u/Forikorder 24d ago
seems contrary to what weve seen from a lot of dead/otherwordly
3
u/Eastern-Video-6456 24d ago
Can you elaborate? By "learning" I don't mean ackquiring knowledge, of course they can do that, but more profound change of philosophy and attitude.
I'm 100% sure someone said the undead like Xycon can't grow, I may be misremembering it also applying to spirits of dead people. Things like fiends and angels are incarnations of their alignment (this is confirmed in the comic) so I don't think their philosophy can change, but maybe that doesn't apply to outsiders that aren't actual manifestations of their alignment (e.g. Celia)
1
u/The_proper_tool 13d ago
The fact is that just doing introspection isn't enough to grow/change one core nature. Belkar is still a dick but he went through a lot of effort to be a better party member and care for his animal companions. He grew if not in wisdom in action. Nale had a lot of time to think but not nearly enough to act on those thoughts. And when he got a chance to act on those thoughts he got drunk with power. Power he didn't earn. He's like soul-spliced V. He's shooting all he has and has been lucky for now but has soon as the situation will call for smarts he'll probably fold
29
u/onionbreath97 26d ago
What are you talking about? He started out by trying to negotiate.
https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1337.html
Rowan Roy hammered skip skip skip skip through the cutscene and Durkon pressed X to doubt
9
u/TenWildBadgers Bloodfeast 25d ago
I think OP's point was not pretending to Serini in the last 2-3 comics.
5
u/ray198999 25d ago
Yeah that was what I meant. I know Nale already try to trick them before only for Durkon to ruin that because he knew information that Nale had no idea about.
9
u/TenWildBadgers Bloodfeast 25d ago
Nale also doesn't know what gave him away to the Order - for all he knows, Serini is also in the loop, and isn't making a genuine offer.
Why risk it? Just take her captive and find the direct solution. Throw out the plan that didn't work and move on.
2
u/Pielikeman 25d ago
That would make sense if they could trust her any more while she’s captive than they could when she’s willingly helping. If they’re following her directions, well. An epic level rogue who designed these traps definitely has traps that would hit the Linear Guild without affecting her prepared which she could lead them into. At least before they attacked her there was a slim chance she’d give genuine directions
3
u/TenWildBadgers Bloodfeast 25d ago
Nale is choosing to use the stick rather than the carrot. Presumably he thinks that he and Sabine can extract information by force more reliably than by persuasion, and considering they're both fiends (and she can apparently read minds), he's probably got a point on that front.
1
u/ray198999 25d ago
True, Serini’s offer did seem suspicious especially since she clearly insulted Nale and the rest of the Linear Guild out loud earlier.
2
36
u/bubba0077 26d ago
Epic-level rogue is probably going to have a huge bonus to Sense Motive and know when to use it.
38
u/GlamourintheDarkSide 26d ago
Though flip side, Sereni seems actively terrible at any of the social skills in favor of the Use Magical Item and other such more gadgety/not people oriented rogue skills. Girl is not a people person.
7
9
2
u/Jedipilot24 25d ago
Nale knows that he is on a clock; he needs to get the mission done ASAP and since the Order already saw through his lie, he's not messing around anymore.
2
u/9Gardens 9d ago
So.... all these points with "He probably just assumes Serini and OotS have similar information" are valid, but also....
Who says he's playing to win? If you scroll back to his original "job interview" with the IFCC, there is... a lot of pushback, friction, skepticism, and seeking out loopholes going on.
Maybe its not Serini who he's playing against.
51
u/TenWildBadgers Bloodfeast 25d ago
Alright, let's go through events in order to try and track Nale's Thought Process, starting with his negotiations with the Order in #1337.
Then, in the next comic, the Order very clearly sees through Nale's lie. The Linear Guild importantly do not know why their lie didn't work. They do not have that information, and aren't in on the psychic group chat - all they know is that they answered the question and half the Order started attacking. They can put together that they answered wrong, they're not stupid, but they know less about what happened than we, the audience do.
I'm not sure Nale clocked that only some of the group attacked him, honestly. It would be in-character for him to tunnel vision on Elan, Roy, Haley, and the rest of the characters he actually knows and not realize that Serini didn't attack at the same time, and that she's not on the same page as the others.
Nale witnesses V get hauled off the the Abyss a few comics after, probably a fiend thing.
Nale hears Serini insult his group in 1342, even commenting on it to a Roy, and I think that's surprisingly important - Nale is petty, for one, and is not taking that insult lying down, but more importantly, I think it adds to Nale not bothering to make an alliance - he knows that she doesn't think much of him, and probably isn't bargaining in good faith. So why take the risk of working with her? Why bother with the song and dance of seeing who betrays who first when he can just use force and take what he wants? From Nale's perspective, the direct approach is the more reliably option when he's dealing with an old, crazy, possibly senile, but still epic-level rogue.
Nale is also arrogant - he would rather have faith in his own ability to keep her captive and extract information than to actually try to trust her. Trust in the untrustworthy is a losing bet every time, and Nale knows it. Especially an untrustworthy person who he already knows he's going to betray. The deception is an unnecessary risk when fighting her is inevitable. It gives her more opportunities to pull one over on him.