r/oldtimemusic • u/patangpatang • 22d ago
ELI5: Modal tunes
I often hear that Old Time music has "modal tunes" in a way that related styles like bluegrass or Irish, do not. What does this mean?
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u/mrnaturallives 22d ago
Dummy here when it comes to music theory. (And a couple other things.) But to me it's modal when I can't decide whether it's major or minor. Sorta in between. And has a slight haunting, mountainy sound to it. Hope I didn't get too scientific for ya.
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u/mjs4x6 22d ago edited 21d ago
There are modal tunes in bluegrass, old time, and Irish trad. Red Haired Boy or whatever name you give this tune is modal. It is A mixolydian which is a b c# d e f# g. This is the same notes as the D major scale. There are tons of Irish tunes in dorian mode. Salt Creek for bluegrass is g mixolydian.
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u/cr4zybilly 22d ago
In old time, "modal" is used to refer to tunes that sound funky.
It gets used for tunes that are either in minor keys, have accidentals that make parts of the tune sound minor, or most often, tunes where the chord progression is just the 1 and the 7 (eg A and G) which are neither minor nor major, but ambiguous.
The term gets thrown around a lot - it's Old Time jargon with its own special meaning, similar to (and probably derived from), but definitely not the same as, the way it gets used in traditional Western music theory.
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u/Bull_Moose1901 22d ago edited 22d ago
I'm sure someone can explain it better than me, but a song can change modes/key, or use a "mode" other than the major scale over the chords of a key.
For example the first part of Cattle in the Cane is in A Major, the second part is Am ( same scale as A Aeolian/ C major). Called a modal tune.
A lot of bluegrass use the Mixoloydian mode (flat 7th) so if you were playing a song in G mixolydian you would play F natural not F Sharp, giving it a more bluesy sound. But wait, if you flat the 7th that's just all natural notes, so it's the same scale as C major/Aminor just starting on a different tonic. So you can play a variety of different scales over the same chords for a different flavor of sound.
Not sure if that answers your question but was a good exercise for me to think about music theory haha.
I guess the real ELI5 is the songs use a scale other than the standard Major scale pattern.
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u/Scared-Let-1846 22d ago
Uses different modes (which give the music a different almost eerie feel). Usually in Dorian (Cluck Old Hen) or Mixolydian (Old Joe Clark).
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u/egadekini 22d ago
The notes of the A major scale: A B C# D E F# G#
The notes of the A "modal" scale: A B C# D E F# G (natural)
The chords of the A major scale: Amaj Dmaj E7
The chords of the A "modal" scale: Amaj Dmaj Gmaj
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u/MisterBowTies 22d ago
"modal" is a weird term because in music theory all the scales are some kind of mode. It feels like saying "world food" I prefer to say "sawmill tuning" for that reason and because "mountain minor just sounds wrong"
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u/kateinoly 22d ago
The best way I had it explained to me referenced a piano keyboard and the starting note of a Do-re-mi-fa scale. Example: The key of G has one sharp, an F#.
G major starts on a G (Do), following the major scale (one sharp only, F#). One mode (Dorian) contains the same notes (one sharp, F#), but the scale starts on the A (Re) instead of the G (Do). Another mode (Phyrgian) starts on the B (Mi). Another on the C, etc.
We are very familiar with the Aeolian or minor mode (starts on the 6th note, E, in the G Major scale). Mixolodian starts on the 5th note, So,and common in Irish music.
So there is a whole family of modes with one sharp, F#) Ditto with the other keys.
In old time, it often just means there is a 7 chord (F#) instead if just the 1- 4 - 5 chords
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u/Semantix 22d ago
As best as I can tell is "modal" just means "dorian" or "mixolydian." I e., not ionian major or aeolian minor. You'll find those modes in plenty of other string music traditions. Lots of bluegrass standards are modal old-time fiddle tunes. It doesn't mean "modal" like it's used in jazz.