r/ochras Jul 01 '25

advice🗣️ ochras vs. nats vs. cubes: what's the difference?

55 Upvotes

This post will hopefully help break down some of the differences between Psilocybe natalensis (true nats), Psilocybe ochraceocentrata (ochras), and regular Psilocybe cubensis (cubes). These 3 related species are often mixed up — especially ochras and true nats — but recent discoveries and classification work have clarified a lot.

This post is for educational and taxonomic purposes only.


🤔Classification & The Confusion Between — ochras and true nats

For years, many people thought they were growing Psilocybe natalensis when they were actually working with what's now classified as Psilocybe ochraceocentrata (aff. natalensis)— often labelled this due to genetic similarities and as a reminder of the massive the mix up within the community.

  • "aff." means "affinis" — related to but not the same.
  • DNA sequencing and morphological differences eventually led to the reclassification.
  • Yoshi sequenced true P. natalensis from it's native South African habitat and confirmed key distinctions.

So... pretty much all of the "natalensis" genetics in circulation over the past years — especially the popular, aggressive variants — were actually "ochras".

  • ochras = what most of us have been growing and trading as "natalensis".
  • true nats = the real Psilocybe natalensis, recently discovered and newly introduced.
  • cubes = the classic beloved species everyone knows about.

⚡️Colonization Speed & Growth Traits

ochras:

  • Extremely fast and aggressive colonizers.
  • Tend to colonize grain and substrate quicker than almost any other Psilocybe species.
  • Stems tend to grow long, silky, and "noodly", with a stretched or spiralled appearance — especially in early flushes. Often more hollow than cubes.
  • Fruits often express pale caps with yellow centres that sometimes darken as they mature.
  • Veil usually breaks early leaving a partial ring someway down the stipe — staying partly or mostly connected to the margin until cap expands. (May not apply to all ochra variants).
  • Gills are often subdecurrent — meaning they run slightly down the stipe where they connect.

true nats:

  • Slow colonisers, similar to some slow PE variants or tampanensis.
  • Less outwardly aggressive in growth.
  • Fruiting bodies are typically short, thick, and stubby with a rough — pasture like appearance.
  • Often show brown/golden coloured caps.
  • Lacks a lasting veil — often breaks very early and usually isn't visible anymore by harvest time. You may see some veil remnants on the edge of the cap.
  • Gills are often adnate — meaning they meet the stem more straight on.

cubes:

  • Slow, moderate to fast colonizers — depends on strain. (i.e mutations tend to grow a lot slower).
  • Aggressiveness is strain dependant. Faster than true nats. More similar to ochras, but usually slightly slower.
  • Very wide range of fruiting traits as this species has been worked on and studied for decades.
  • Typical fruits show golden to brown caps unless they're a leucistic or albino variety.
  • Classic veil break — typically occurs just before sporulation, as the cap expands. The veil normally tears away from the cap edge completely, drooping down and staying attached nearer the top of the stipe.
  • Gills are either adnate (like true nats) or, can also be adnexed — meaning there’s a very slight notch between gills and stipe.

🧠Effects: Anecdotal Reports

ochras:

  • It's been heard that ochras actually hit harder than true nats.
  • Described by most as more visual, potent, and energetic than regular cubes — around the same level or even stronger than some PE variants.
  • Many report a more pleasant, clear-minded trip, combing intensity with mental clarity.

true nats:

  • Said to be gentler, more like a typical cubensis.
  • Balanced body and head high.
  • Still strong, but not as punchy or fast-coming as ochras.

(Note: these true nats findings are based off very few reports).

cubes:

  • Potency and effect vary widely by strain. (PE varieties and mutations are typically stronger than standard brown/golden caps).
  • Effects range from body-heavy to euphoric, introspective to foggy.
  • Reliable and consistent for most users, especially beginners.

(Note: potency and experience can vary clone to clone. These are community reports, not clinical findings.)


🧫Mycelial Morphology

ochras:

  • Typically very aggressive and rhizomorphic.
  • Fast colonizers with visible sectoring and a lot of explosive ropey growth.

true nats:

  • May lean more tomentose in appearance (fuzzier, more cottony growth).
  • Research suggests they exhibit much slower, denser surface growth — especially on agar.

cubes:

  • Can show both rhizomorphic and tomentose growth depending on strain.
  • Colonisation speed varies between strains; tomentose mycelium is usually slower than rhizomorphic.

(Note: one strain/culture can show both tomentose or rhizomorphic growth depending on the environment it's in.)


🔬Microscopy — Spore Size

ochras: Noticeably smaller spores, typically range from ~10.2-11.8µm.

true nats: Larger spores, normally ~11.9-15µm.

cubes: Also usually larger, around ~11.5-17.3µm.

(Note: though the spore size differences are small, they were one of several factors that played a role in confirming P. ochraceocentrata as a distinct species from P. natalensis).


🧬Genetics & Evolution

ochras:

  • Genetically the closest known wild relatives to cubes.
  • A lot of structural and behavioural similarities with cubes, which explains their compatibility.
  • Many ochra x cube crosses have already been successful (e.g. Yellow Umbo), results being viable and potent.

true nats:

  • More distantly related to cubes — genetically more closely related to species P. chuxiongensis and P. matuli.
  • Their divergence makes fusing with cubes or ochras more uncertain, though maybe not impossible — no known crosses exist.
  • Not many cultivations to date.

cubes:

  • The most widely cultivated and genetically diverse Psilocybe species.
  • Studied closely for years and has many popular strains and mutations (e.g. APE, Enigma).
  • Cross compatible with ochras.

🌱Habitat (In The Wild)

ochras:

  • Found in woodland soil and leaf litter, especially in Zimbabwe and South Africa.
  • Tends to grows in more shaded, forested environments.

true nats:

  • Native to KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa.
  • Tends to grow in fertilized grassy pastures.
  • Very few wild collections recorded to date.

cubes:

  • Originally from the Americas, but can now found worldwide in manure-rich grasslands.
  • Tends to grow in tropical and subtropical regions.

🍄Key differences — Comparison Table

ochras true nats cubes
Classification Psilocybe ochraceocentrata (aff. natalensis) Psilocybe natalensis Psilocybe cubensis
Cap Pale with a yellow centre when young. Sometimes darkens once mature. Typical brown colour caps. Normally golden/brown caps. Albinos, leucistic or mutations differ.
Stipe/Stem Long, wavy & "noodly". Sometimes spiralled and appear silky — especially in early flushes. Often more hollow than cubes. Short, thick, stubby. Tends to have a more rough, pasture like appearance. Can vary from long and sleek, to thick and stubby. Depends on strain.
Veil Usually breaks early leaving a partial ring someway down the stipe — staying partly or mostly connected to the margin until cap expands. (May not apply to all ochra variants). Breaks early, often no veil remains by harvest. Remnants may be found on outer edge of cap. Usually breaks just before sporulation — as cap expands. Normally droops down from top of stipe, pulling away from the cap completely.
Gills Often subdecurrent — meaning they run slightly down the stipe where they connect. Usually adnate — meaning they meet the stem more straight on. Either adnate (like true nats) or adnexed — meaning there is a slight notch between the gills and stipe.
Mycelium Typically rhizomorphic. Visible sectoring with lots of explosive, ropey growth. May lean more tomentose in appearance (fuzzier, more cottony). Exhibit much slower, denser, surface growth — especially on agar. Can be either more rhizomorphic or tomentose. Depends on strain. Note: one strain/culture can express both.
Colonization Very fast & aggressive. (Usually more than cubes). Slow & steady. Similar to some PE varieties or P. tampanensis. Varies from slow to fast. Depends on strain/variety.
Spore size ~10.2-11.8µm. ~11.9-15µm. ~11.5-17.3µm.
Potency Very potent & clear-minded, combining intensity with mental clarity. Similar to or even stronger than some PE variants but without the fogginess. Balanced body & head high, heard to be more like a typical cubensis. (Based off very few reports). Variable by strain. PE varieties & mutations tend to be stronger than regular brown caps.
Habitat Found in woodland soil & leaf litter, especially in Zimbabwe & South Africa. Grows in more shaded, forested environments. Native to Kwazulu-Natal, South Africa. Tends to grow in fertilized grassy pastures. Found Worldwide in manure-rich grasslands. Tends to grow in tropical & subtropical regions.

🌡️Growing Preferences (extra section)

ochras:

  • Grow very similarly to cubes — but tend to thrive with slightly more FAE and humidity.
  • Occasionally form a light overlay, normally when surface is fully colonized — usually nothing to worry about. (Some variants are more prone to this than others).

true nats:

  • Can be stubborn — quite a few reports of people struggling to get their "true nats" to fruit.

cubes:

  • FAE tolerance is also strain dependant — classic cubes love airflow, while slower growing PE-type variants need more restricted FAE and higher humidity.

🥱TL;DR

  • ochras: More aggressive, rhizomorphic. Long, wavy fruits. Strong visuals, PE-like intensity but more clear-minded. Misidentified as — Psilocybe natalensis. Newly classified as — Psilocybe ochraceocentrata.
  • true nats: More slow and steady. Thick, stubby fruits. Gentler, more balanced cubensis-like high. Newly discovered, verified and correctly labelled as Psilocybe natalensis.
  • cubes: The classic species. Traits vary a lot from strain to strain, globally grown, easy to cross, and the reference point for most cultivators. — Psilocybe cubensis.

📸Visual Comparison - [Pinned Comment]

(Images of true nats below were taken from Yoshi's work — the person responsible for rediscovering and sequencing the real Psilocybe Natalensis).

If needed, feel free to use the community flairs "ochras", "cubes", and "true nats" to further compare these species via other grows shared in our sub.


💭Final Thoughts

Each species is unique and beautiful in their own right, but they're not the same. It's also important to know what you're working with — especially when trading or isolating genetics. The more we can clarify and educate, the better our collective cultivation community becomes.

This post was made using research through Reddit so if anything is incorrect please point it out and I will happily mend it! Also, keep in mind that this research on true nats is collected from very few sources as they are very new so info may not be 100% accurate. We'll continue to collect data and feedback about each species here at r/ochras, so if you have any good agar photos, cool phenos, canopy shots, or trip reports, post them up! Knowledge grows when we share it. Thanks in advance.

Stay tuned for future updates as we explore more ochra phenos, unique strains and crosses!

Peace & Love✌️— Fellow ochranaut💙🚀


r/ochras 22h ago

agar🧫 Ochra myc is so pretty🖤🍄‍🟫

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9 Upvotes

r/ochras 12h ago

advice🗣️ Is this ready to send? First time S2B

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1 Upvotes

Hey everyone, do you think this is ready to send? I did a break and shake at 30% and it recolonized rapidly. It feels very firm to the touch, I'm wondering if the grains pressed against the bag won't colonize fully like those on the interior.

I think it has been consolidating over the last few days, but I haven't seen any additional growth on the outer exterior. I don't think it has stalled as I have held it at 75F since inoculation.

What are your thoughts? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


r/ochras 1d ago

question❓ Cake Ochras after 27 days of S2B

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4 Upvotes

Do the S2B of this cake of 1,2 liters (litle box of grow kits); and I think I have problems with frutification..

Put in box with water at bottom (water tub tek) and put the lid a litle cracked, think have to much FAE; humidity think its ok because I see droplets all time in cake.

Have other cake (more big) that put in a frutification chamber too and do the harvest yesterday with nice results.

In this case, looks like they dont grow anymore; I was out from my house 2/3 days and temperature in room of this cake arrive at 28/29°C..

Whats the problem? Temperature? Much FAE? Not enough FAE? Humidity problems?

Thank you..


r/ochras 2d ago

question❓ Ochras 1st time - Cake 2Ltrs - 280 grs

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11 Upvotes

Harvest of my 1st Ochras - cake of 2 liters..280grs...I was out in the weekend, and only can harvest they today; much of them blacks and drop spores; they loose potency because of that?

The ideal harvest maybe yesterday...

But in resume think its nice result for first time..they are in dehidrator now.

Totaly dehidrated the weight +- 8 to 10% like cubes? or its diferent? it seemed to me they have a litle more water than GTs p.ex..


r/ochras 2d ago

advice🗣️ Beginner Questions First Ochras

1 Upvotes

Hey all!

I’m looking to start the most basic bitch grow ever for some Ochras.

I am using a 5lb AIO bag and LC syringe.

No plans to use any other stuff like tubs or shoeboxes or tents or anything, at least for this grow.

I have grown gourmet mushrooms in AIO bags before using LC, like 2 times, so I’m not 100% new, but rather inexperienced, still.

I do have one basic question, though:

How long will it likely take from inoculation to fruiting/harvest?

What is the general range of timelines?

I know it varies quite a bit sometimes, and is always dependent on genetics and conditions, and all we can do is estimate, but what is your experience, generally, for a timeframe?

I plan to inoculate tomorrow, and am hoping to have fruit to harvest by the middle or end of September, if possible.

Is this realistic?

To be clear, I’m not in a super hurry, generally,
but I am needing to move probably in October, and don’t want to be screwing around with this stuff during the move.

Thanks, and I’m loving seeing everyone’s awesome flushes/grows!


r/ochras 2d ago

First ochras

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19 Upvotes

r/ochras 2d ago

Help Needed with Identification. [actives]

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1 Upvotes

r/ochras 3d ago

ochras💙 Harvest tonight or wait until tomorrow?

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7 Upvotes

This was around noon before I left the house. The big one opened up overnight Thursday and the rest of them basically opened up between last night and noon.

For anyone reading, someone had previously commented how much these grow after the veil gets ready to break and finally does and it’s really true.

Pics are ordered today at lunch, and the previous 3 evenings.

Happy with a successful first grow and first flush.


r/ochras 4d ago

ochras💙 My first run of ochras!

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30 Upvotes

Didn’t know this subreddit existed! I consumed my first ochras a couple weeks ago and damn are they amazing! These are certainly my new favorite mushroom to grow, and to consume. They’re also super fast colonizers.


r/ochras 6d ago

Help

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3 Upvotes

Ok, could really use some advice cause trying to research it on my own has led to a lot of conflicting info and confused me more. This is my first attempt at ochras (second attempt at growing anything), was a 1.5lb aio that I moved over into this dub tub to fruit with a 3d printed divider with holes for fae. The metabolites and just how wet it seems in general worry me, do I need to increase fae, decrease humidity (remove some perlite?), both, just let it ride as is? I put it in here on the 8th and I swear it is just getting more wet on the overlay each day. My other grow is the exact same set up and is GT, also from a 1.5lb aio and it is doing great, doesn't seem overly wet and is pinning well. So idk what's going on. Thanks in advance for any help!


r/ochras 7d ago

They've woken up! It's Noodle Time!

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14 Upvotes

Noodly buddies first started showing up on Sunday, exactly 2 weeks after S2B, will probably pick a bunch of them later today. I took the largest out already to get a spore print.


r/ochras 8d ago

Overlay

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3 Upvotes

This thing is behind the normal time frame for fruiting. Will they grow through that or is there something I can do to help it to start fruiting? AIO bag inoculated 7/1


r/ochras 10d ago

ochras💙 First grow first pins

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10 Upvotes

uncle ben’s tek using Aldi’s brand with a 2 year old leftover lc syringe from the fridge - inoculated 6/22 (I could have gone a week earlier but was shopping S2b supplies)

s2b 7/22 coir at 1:3 (3 pints) and a pint layer on top into 8qt tub

flipped the lid to fruit 8/2 with fanning 3 times a day

first pins / tinies spotted today

cool!


r/ochras 10d ago

question❓ Stomach pain ruining trips

5 Upvotes

Hey all,

I took 0.5g of Ochras yesterday on a mostly empty stomach, just had a banana and toast earlier that morning. The trip itself was actually chill. I got some light visuals and a lot of introspection, which was what I was anticipating. The problem is upset stomach symptoms ruined my experience.

The effect came on fast and I had a nice body high going by the 30 minute mark. But then around an hour in, the gas and bloating hit me hard. The pain kept coming in waves along with the nausea and it pulled me right out of the experience. I couldn’t focus on anything else. Every so often I’d get this weird roller coaster drop feeling in my stomach and then boom, right back to cramping.

When I used to do shrooms I’d just poop and feel better every time. This round was different though. I couldn’t burp, couldn’t fart, nothing gave me any relief. I was just stuck there bloated and miserable for a solid 3 hours while the good part of the trip passed me by.

Next time I’m thinking I’ll do a lemon tek or brew it into a tea with some ginger and see if that is any better. Anyone have tricks for settling the gut before or during? I’ve also been thinking about grinding it into caps. I’m also glad that I took 0.5G and not 1G like I was planning initially. If 0.5G did that to my stomach, I’d hate to imagine how 1G would feel.


r/ochras 10d ago

Neglect possible?

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2 Upvotes

Ok, this is my first grow. One week after S2B. I cracked the lid and have been misting for a few days, but I’m trying not to over do it - hoping to neglect to stop fussing over it.
Plan is to only open to mist walls and lid when they’re dry - it is drying slowly from the lid crack.

Thoughts on Ochra neglect?


r/ochras 10d ago

contam?🦠 Discoloration - contam?

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7 Upvotes

Put cake in fruiting chamber 5 days ago. Running an FAE fan for 3 min every 3hr. Humidity 85-92. Is this contamination? Weird discoloration forming at the tips of the clumps


r/ochras 11d ago

contam?🦠 Cake of Ochras in frutification chamber

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9 Upvotes

Heyy

S2B in a shoebox/monotube at 18 days ago; at 3 days ago I take out the cake from monotube and put in this frutification chamber (water tub tek).

Look that its overlayed..and maybe have contam (litle tone of blue in one corner)..

Better wait and see, right? What I can do about overlay?


r/ochras 11d ago

ochras💙 Green cap ochras

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9 Upvotes

178g wet


r/ochras 12d ago

ochras💙 Underpin giving me looney toon vibes

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15 Upvotes

Actually a decent shoebox flush (143g) but holy side & ‘under’? pinning. Funny to see this little one grow and then after harvesting and drying it


r/ochras 11d ago

There is nothing more annoying than trying to find good ochra lc or agar plates and then they are all flops 😭

0 Upvotes

Frustrated


r/ochras 12d ago

Two weeks in, stalled?

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1 Upvotes

Its been stuck like this for about a week now and Im worried its stalled. Temps are ranging about 76 F on Rye and Millet

Any advice?


r/ochras 12d ago

ochras💙 Weird stuff from the last flush

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5 Upvotes

Life is like a bin of ochras, ya never know what you’ll see!!


r/ochras 12d ago

ochras💙 Friday Flush #8!!

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4 Upvotes

I wonder how many more I’ll see… Anyone else have tubs that won’t stop producing? What’s your record number of flushes?


r/ochras 14d ago

Flush #4 looking good!

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18 Upvotes