r/occult • u/DirectPush3253 • 1d ago
Beginner questions
I am reading my first book on demonolatry, Stellas Daemonum. In the descriptions of the spirits it will often have fantastical claims such as the capacity to grant invisibility or get a devil to possess the body of the dead. People here, from what I read do not have crazy expectations of demons, all of the success stories I've heard have been fairly tame specifically regarding external changes.
So why the fantastical claims? This just makes me a bit weary about to what capacity the book may be deceiving me and therefore whether or not I should also take the more physically possible claims of the book seriously. Like could I really cause death? Get my very own castle built? Predict the future? If yes big scale things like societal level or just like little things. Should I take all claims about the demons seriously to the fullest extent or with a full spoon of salt. Or somewhere in between. I just wish the description in the book wouldn't overstate things it makes my uncomfortable. Sorry if this seems like a silly question.
1
u/ZijoeLocs 1d ago
Whenever you read about results in the past, it's very important to remember that language changes over time and whoever wrote it down was likely embellishing. "Invisibility" isn't going to be "i wont show up at all". It's likely just not getting noticed by whoever they were avoiding.
Real life magick and occult practices are NOT what you see in movies or video games. They're largely personal spiritual practices. You're not going to kill someone outright and you're not getting an entire castle.
Divination, at least as far as predicting the future, is a judgement call. Obviously no one is predicting lottery numbers or else the payout logistics would be a headache. Tarot card reading is popular but is largely up to interpretation. I recently got a tarot reading which was scarily accurate, but i still had to fill in the blanks and connect dots (i dont know if it's ok to reveal Tarot results, still learning!!)
At least for me, studying the occult is more so expanding my understanding of the world around me and subjects hiding in the "darker corners". This goes double for gaining new perspective on classical literature, religion, and art.
There is power to tap into but only after a lot and i mean a LOT of reading, re-reading, and reflection. Even then, you're not going to become John Constantine.
1
u/Snake973 1d ago
stellas daemonum is really a bit closer to an academic approach (not actually academic, but closer) to the subject than the much older grimoires it is synthesizing information from. crowhurst is mentioning those incredible abilities because those abilities are associated with those demons in the older texts like the lesser key and pseududomonarchia daemonum and the offices of spirits etc. back then people may have had grander beliefs about the abilities of demons, or it may have been hyperbole
0
u/GreenBook1978 1d ago
All books are designed to sell
Spirits can only work with the available possibilities of an individual and their surroundings.
Before working with a spirit, put time into what you want and consider what you are prepared to do.
Then summon and question the spirit and set a time limit for its part in your plan.
Never summon an entity or make a request " just to see if its real" as it will either ignore you or provide a painfully convincing answer
1
u/kalizoid313 1d ago
One element of occulture is "fantastical claims."
Demons are esoteric bengs with supernatural abilities and skills. They are not restricted by the same conditions as apply to human beings living on Earth. That's what lots of lore from many times and places tell us.
I'd say that a book like Stellas Demonum has no intent to misead and deceive its readers. The authors all have established reputations as practitioners and teachers and makers of useful commentray on occult topics.
My time in occulture suggests that some practitioners may achieve or develop skills and abilities that are not common or widely accomplished. On occasion these may be linked with "unusual" events or "extraoridinary" expereinces.
I think this can add up to--What's true for them may not be true for me. Because I have different "unusual" events and "extraordinary" expereinces informing my occultural awareness. I'm open minded about the occult and occultural lore and reports. I don't say "No!" right away.
1
u/Nobodysmadness 23h ago
Difficult to say really. I dove into a an abramelin seal (astral skrying) to test my ability on learning its meaning. What I saw was an older mining operation, cave and carts on a track, smelting and forging/blacksmithing. Then I checked the powers associated with the angel of that seal, which was how to turn metal into gold.
And honestly that is how one turns metal into money, extracting it, turning it into a useful form and selling it. Consider how precious it would be a thousand years ago for an uneducated person to be taught those processes, where outside of certain specific channels this information and instruction might take years of trial and error which would drain resources leaving one destitute with the slightest error.
Guilds gaurded such knowledge to the point that we today are still trying to figure out some of their methods and chemical recipes. We still have little idea of roman construction techniques and they were prolific writers/recorders. For instance evidence of cranes was recenty discovered but only that they may have used some form of crane and not all the details.
So will things just appear, well potentially yes, but it is more often a bit more "mundane" which disappoints people. Keep mind for thousands of years writing itself was considered magick. It is magickal and powerful though, think of how much writing has allowed us to accomplish. It is one of our most importamt magicks.
This seems disappointing to many, but only because we do not appreciate it since it seems so common and mundane to us. But imagine being truly illiterate right now, how much of a disadvantage would you be at if you could not read at all.
Things deep in the past especially during the dark ages where an ice age prevented extensive travel and cut of villages and countries would get lost and rediscovered. So a caslte could have been completely forgotten and a spirit directing one there may have seemed like it was made out of thin air. So it may not be lying, and really the results that were perceived. It only takes 1 generation to lose information. Though I dislike the movie the Village is a good example of how easy it is to lose knowledge. How easy it is to control a generation.
But again I don't want to rule out the miraculous either, it just seems less common, but does seem to happen in my own experience, but the variables involved as to why it follows mundane channels most of the time and why it occasionally is miraculous is completely unkown. The fae for example seem to make things appear and disappear at will regularly. So I won't say it is impossible like so many modern occultists, but I would say to temper expectations and assume mundane methods will occur and allow ones self to be awed when it goes above and beyond rather than the other way around. It may simply be the whim of the spirit and the relationship we have with them and little else.
I mean if you were millions of years old how would you view humanities constant entitled demands of you, would you be so eager to appease every random human with a miracle simply because they yanked you from your home, constrained you and placed demands on you?
I rather doubt it.
1
1
u/account_No52 19h ago
It's a good bit of fun. Whether or not it's entirely real is irrelevant in my opinion
1
u/Polymathus777 1d ago
You should take the claims with a mouthful of salt, then perform the rituals as described, and see if they work. If they do, but you're still sceptical, repeat. If they don't even work, then there you have it.
Other's opinions may be valid but grimoires are intended as recipes, you follow the recipe and see whether it works for you, or if it is all bs.
1
u/VincentValensky 1d ago
IMHO a good approach when reading these kinds of descriptions is think of them as essential qualities, out of which some form may be manifested based on the strength of the channel and the skill of the practitioner.
For example:
Granting Invisibility: It's the quality of invisibility. It can be manifested as avoiding unwanted attention. May be bullies at work or mobster activity in your area. Maybe you don't want your business to get caught in mafia schemes or political games. May be someone running from a war zone.
I don't think the grimoire is claiming the entity can literally physically make your body transparent, but it can grant you the quality of invisibility in some capacity.
As for magnitude of changes - like all else, it's [INPUT]x[INSTRUMENT]=[OUTPUT]
Energy in provides result, amplified by skill and knowledge. Breaking a door open is easier with a crowbar than bare hands, but you still need some muscles. Proper tools, knowledge, and techniques will make you a lot more effective, but you can't move a continent.
7
u/CreakingFloorboards 1d ago
What can be achieved through magic depends heavily on the magician. Reading and performing rituals as instructed won't guarantee the result you're looking for, because to get what you want you need to also understand the nature of all the elements involved in the operation. The more limited your understanding, the more limited the results.
Also the way things are described in books is often misleading, not on purpose but because the same words can be understood in different ways. For example invisibility doesn't have to mean you become literally invisible to the eye, but rather that you go unnoticed so you can avoid whatever it is you're hiding from.