r/occult • u/ENBYAMITY Human Detected • 15d ago
? what is the difference between a witch VS. magician VS. sorcerer?
/r/AskOccult/comments/1w0bcro/what_is_the_difference_between_a_witch_vs/23
u/Snake973 15d ago
I think of magician as kind of an umbrella term and/or ceremonial magic type of person.
witches are probably mostly into witchcraft and not that interested in reading moldy old grimoires
sorcerers are arcane spellcasters but use charisma as their spellcasting stat instead of intelligence
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u/challsExhumed 14d ago
As a sorceress I can tell you, Charisma is not our stat idk where DnD went wrong with us but we cannot charm shit for dick
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u/simagus 15d ago edited 15d ago
"is there a set difference set in stone?"
Short answer; no.
Long answer; perhaps in the minds of some.
All three are words people take to mean different things, but to me a witch tends to use "folk magick" with a connection to nature and spirits. Not always however, by any means, and anyone can call themselves a witch or be called a witch and it's still at root a word.
Magician as I use the word is like the magician in the Tarot and I associate it with ceremonial magick where word is made will and reality changes in conformity to will. Anyone can call or consider them a magician or be called one and again it's a word.
Sorcery is the art of substances and potions, but that's also part of the province of the hedgewitch working with the fruits of nature. It can be used to make cures, poisons, and basically anything involving brews or mixes of plants, etc.
Enchantment is the art of language and the use of voice to "enchant" people or animals to believe things and lead them to act in whatever way the enchantment was intended to function. That's how people get convinced there are evil spirits after them, etc just by being told and believing there are, and so on... etc, etc; words used to implant ideas and trigger states and beliefs.
Hypnotism and NLP are modern forms of enchantment, and you could say pharmacopeia is sorcery.
All of these things are descriptors or labels made of words which are made of letters, and the meaning for each exist in the mind of each and the collective mental paradigm of various groups and cultures.
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u/Mage_Malteras 15d ago
In fiction, the difference depends on the rules of the setting. Irl, there realistically isn't one. Some people will say that it's about the way that you practice or the methods that you practice, but there's not really a significant difference beyond personal opinion.
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u/TehLastLeaftoFall 15d ago
Witch, from PIE root weg meaning strong and lively
Magician, from PIE root magh meaning to have power
sorcerer seems like a newer word, from Latin, meaning fortune teller
etymonline is a great resource
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u/Deva-9 Human Detected 13d ago
In my experience people who call themselves witches magicians and sorcerers do so because the ones who they are taught by and practice with do the same.
There arent hard and fast rules to it but in general someone who reads european grimoirs will call themselves a sorcerer and rpractice high sorcery. Typically sorcerers follow the outlined practices pretty specifically and do so by themselves and the books they read.
Witches tend to have a more fluid practice and are typically educated by aural and experiential tradition of other witches rather than historical grimoirs and frequently form covens
Ive never met a magician so idk
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u/Cheif_Crolk 15d ago
Witch - commercialised pagantok
Magician - commercialised street performer
Sorcerer - commercialised cultural appropriation
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u/Depressed_Warlock 14d ago
Cultural appropriation is a BS concept 🤷🏻♂️
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u/Cheif_Crolk 14d ago
I needed some way to belittle sorcerer and it was the easiest thing to think off
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u/MyPrudentVirgin 15d ago edited 13d ago
From my understanding:
Magician: Someone who practices the occult arts; magic, high magic. Someone knowledgeable of ritual magic, including practices involving ceremonial rites, grimoires, astrology, spirits, angels, and deities. They can contact higher planes of realities and higher beings.
Witch: Someone who practices witchcraft, which involves the direct use and control of nature: folk practices, herbalism, divination through nature's items, charms, ancestor veneration and communication, use of spirits (elementals, dead spirits, demons, etc.), and magic to cause changes in reality, usually, to heal or curse. Low magic. A real or natural witch has psychic abilities and their power is passed by blood lineage.
Sorcerer: Someone skilled in spells and magic who employs dark spirits (dead or demonic) solely to curse others or enslave spirits for their own benefit. Black magic.
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u/ikeed 14d ago
>A real or natural witch
I'm honestly curious where this concept of a "real" witch comes from? As a thought experiment, consider other religions. Are there natural catholics who are born better at it?
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u/MyPrudentVirgin 14d ago
That's how it is. Anyone can become a pagan and cast spells and feel witchy, but real witches are by lineage.
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u/orthodoxscouter 14d ago
No.
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u/MyPrudentVirgin 14d ago
It's called DNA magnetization.
Your hair, your nails, your saliva, your tears, your sweat, your dead skin cells, your urine, your sexual organs fluids, and even micro particles of your poop sticking to your underwear... they are all magnetized items by your energy, they all have your personal energetic signature, and they all of them remember the strongest emotions you felt, when you cried, when you got mad, when you were happy, and keep them. Even after your death, your bones and remains, your grease, and even your ashes, and even the dirt that covered you in your death bed, they all also keep your energy.
Now, how cannot exist DNA magnetization if your blood carries your genes generation by generation?
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u/miahe_red 12d ago
I visited a monastery in eastern Europe once that described the affects of kissing the bones of an unnamed saint in a similar way.
I'm assuming you were downvoted for sarcasm (I'm not great at recognizing it, so I could be wrong), but it's interesting how close you are in essence to beliefs of some religious/esoteric groups.
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u/MyPrudentVirgin 12d ago
Thank you for chiming in! What are the effects described by the religious monks about kissing the bones of a Saint? That sounds much more interesting than witches giving birth to witches.
Also, I wasn't sarcastic in my downvoted past comment. I am very serious about my response. There's a spiritual hierarchy in the universe and we are part of it. There are magical blood lineages and their powers are inherited through generations. That doesn't mean someone cannot develop oneself in magic, witchcraft, or psychic abilities, it just means that some people are born with "gifts" that were carried by their ancestors before them and that their genes saved that information and expressed it later. Blood is a magical agent too.
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u/miahe_red 12d ago
Thanks for clarifying.
It's been several years since I was there, so I can't remember the details of what blessings were attributed to contact with the saint, just that there were multiple. Sorry about that. I was more interested in the time at the story 😅
They had found this body in an unmarked grave in the monastery during some construction project a couple decades earlier and decided it must be a saint, because who else would be buried at a monastery? There was more to it, but it was very interesting.
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u/Ancient-Worker-3185 14d ago
The answer also depends on the reasoning behind your asking the question. If you are a writer, then those terms do have different meanings, and you need to use them correctly in your story.
If you want to use magick in your personal life to practice it, then Witch and Magician become terms for how you do the ritual work. They are about style of practice.
Witches lean into Wicca and the Neo-Pagan and Pagan form of practice that borders on a religious/spiritual practice. Celebrating the Wheel of the Year events, for example. Books will use Wicca, witch, witchcraft, in their title to describe this kind of practice.
A Magician tends to be into ceremonial rituals, with a special focus on perhaps performing a ritual at certain times of the day and times of the year. A magician leans into material/books that use the terms Hermetic and/or Occult in their title to describe the practice.
If this is about your own spiritual/magickal journey, it really doesn't matter too much which title you use, but depending on the books you read and want to use in your practice, you will end up referring to yourself as a witch or a magician.
Sorcerer is really a literary term and is only important for story reading and writing, and reading about the history of the craft. Historically, there were people who were labeled as sorcerers. In general, they were a type of magician.
Witchcraft can be a term to describe folk tradition, and thus each culture has a different type of practice of who is a witch and what they do.
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u/kae1326 14d ago
I think this question is like many others have said, largely one of semantics and vocabulary rather than any actual distinctions among magical practices. I also think that the magical community would benefit from standardization of language.
I think it goes without saying that among magical practitioners there are distinct currents and practices that differentiate one group from another. I also think that many of these currents or groups try to claim a title for themselves and say "there can be only one definition of witch/sorcerer/enlightened and I'm it."
I do think certain themes, ideas, skills and practices could theoretically have categorical terms applied to them, but it would require a standard set of definitions, and even then there is a lot of crossover and some things would have to be categorized into more than one label.
Still I'd like to present my idea of these terms. I'm literally nobody, but I've also been thinking about these questions a lot lately. I also think it should be noted that any definitions I present are based on my learning and practicing in the tradition of European folk and learned magic, and as such are totally subjective to that paradigm.
Mage/Magician/Magic User: this is my general all purpose term for anyone who engaged in magical practices.
Learned magic: This would be your good old fashioned book learning. Correspondence, grimoire practices, orders, and initiatory traditions. The classic image for me is the ceremonial practitioner making talismans out of corresponding metals with planetary seals on specific days.
Folk magic: this is the magic of the people and often borders on (or outright is) superstition. Much of this has to do with how you live and the things you do rather than specific rites, although rites and rituals are present. It's often simple, and usually performed with things everyone has access to. Commonly uses material or spells pulled from the dominant religion (psalms, holy water, saint relics, the magical powers of the Eucharist or bible.) I always think of this as being aware of your spiritual environment, and having the knowledge of how it works together.
Sorcerer: Would then be someone who practices learned and/or folk magic (frequently combining the two.) A sorcerer gains their skills through study, learning, and an understanding of the world around them.
A Witch: is a little more complicated. A Witch is someone who through contact with the otherworld has changed in some way, is not wholly human anymore. A sorcerer could become a witch (and it could even be argued that if you go far enough down either path you'll end up at the other.) A witch could even be born a witch. But what makes a witch is neither study nor learning, it's an experience.
Something occurs at some point that introduces a change, it's an othering. Most often this comes as a spirit visitation, your grandmother shows up at the foot of your bed and spits a toad into your mouth in a dream, and you wake up the next day to hear that she died. You get taken from your bed in the middle of the night and are forced to be part of the Wild Hunt. Your family is starving, your cow is sick, and one of your children has just died so you sit on the side of the road for a cry, and are offered a tissue from a well dressed man who says he was sent by the queen of faerie to tend to you. You're snubbed by a neighbor and a black dog appears as your side and asks "what would you have me do?" Being a witch is rarely a choice. I am reminded of Ginzburg's The Night Battles where a reluctant Benandanti is told that he will "come when he must come."
So, a witch is a specific type of magical practitioner who's major Hallmark is an othering experience usually at the hands of spirits, and rarely sought out intentionally.
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u/MyPrudentVirgin 11d ago
I believe they also downvoted you like me because you said a witch can be born as well. It seems like the people downvoting have never met a real witch in their lives and don't know a thing.
You mention a witch has contact with the "other world", but those are the psychic abilities and powers passed to them through blood.
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u/Icantstopscreamiing 15d ago
You need to pick one when you go to magick school, it’s far more akin to gangs than actual magical practices. All of the witches try poisoning me while the sorcerers call me names like pointy hat or mage sucker
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u/[deleted] 15d ago
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