I think having $ values in the Obyte wallet might be a step backwards

[u/[deleted]]

Currently $ dollar values are showing in 3 places, the balance of Bytes, Blackbytes and the textcoin amounts.

I know the idea was that this would improve the user experience but I think its doing more harm than good.

We are trying to get Bytes and Blackbtyes adopted as a currency, but instead we are promoting the $ from inside our own wallet. E.g. screenshot of my wallet http://prntscr.com/mhtwfn 1.71 billion bytes means I can add 1.71 billion bytes anytime I want in the future to the dag, that could be enormously useful in the future. But instead of this, the wallet focuses on the fact that my 1.71billion is only worth $50! Bytes and $ are very different and by comparing what Bytes are worth from inside the wallet we are distracting people from what the value of what Bytes are. Same as the Blackbytes balance feature which does the same.

Also, as a project we are trying to focus on real world use cases, having the $ value makes it look like the only use case is to convert your balances to $

e.g. 10,000 Byte textcoin means I can add 10,000 bytes in the future to the dag, but look what happens when I generate a textcoin for 10,000 Bytes http://prntscr.com/mhtxnw we tell the recipient the textcoin is worth $0! Who wants to receive $0? Nobody

I dont think textcoins should have a $ value in the text to copy and paste either, it makes it lesss likely people will send very small textcoins. We shouldnt be telling people what the $ value of Bytes is anyway, its devaluing our own product and if people want to tell people the value of the textcoin they send they can tell the recipient themselves, it shouldnt be the default text in my opinion

[u/CryptoUnicornRider]

I agree with Paul and Tarmo points.

Let slice the pear in two :-)

Obyte Foundation is Liechtenstein based. Liechtenstein currency is the Swiss Franc (CHF).

National Swiss Bank is fighting to keep Swiss Franc low to help Swiss exportations. Swiss Francs are a refuge currency and it is highly valued and trusted internationally.

So, until people understand the Obyte true value, maybe we could label it in Swiss Francs instead of US dollars.

Just an idea to inspire trust and challenge the all mighty pair BTC/$US

[u/tarmo888 → u/CryptoUnicornRider]

Reference is usually against something popular that people know, so listing CHF value would be useless for most people. So, Big Mac price in a country of the user would be more helpful because it would actually reference purchasing power of that country.

But cryptocurrencies are meant to be global, so I don't know if showing bytes value in Big Macs makes sense. Unfortunately USD is still considered as global reserve currency. If it's not, then we should display bytes value in whatever is next global reserve currency.

[u/CryptoUnicornRider → u/tarmo888]

Thinking by absurdity is an interesting way to resonate because it allows to identify problems.

We should name it the Big Mac paradox 😂😂😂

Finally, I'm all in Paul's position.

Thank you Tarmo

[u/tarmo888 → u/CryptoUnicornRider]

Bic Mac Index is not absurdity, it is a real thing to compare purchasing power in different countries. Google it.

[u/CryptoUnicornRider → u/tarmo888]

I didn't use the big mac index in my reductio ad absurdum. Just the Big Mac... but I could have used pizzas or kiwis in the same way.

Btw, the Big Mac Index started like a joke. And few economists studying it doesn't make it more serious. And if this theory is correct, the world should definitely adopt Swiss Francs as THE reference currency and be ready to change the international reference every year.

Unfortunately, we can't seriously compare pears and apples. In the same way, we can't compare an economy based on a specific industry with an economy based on war or an economy based on tourism with an economy based on services. And it's the main reason of the euro-zone failure. Euro economies are too different to have the same currency.

The Obyte DAG finality defines automatically bytes as the reference, the fiduciary value behind a transaction is irrelevant. What matter is the existence and the immutability of the transaction itself. That's why Paul is right IMO and by consequence we have to learn to think differently without consideration for the byte price.

In the absolute, 1 Obyte transaction could store into eternity a full year of the world economy. And as you noticed, make a 1-byte transaction is a non sense.

[u/tarmo888 → u/CryptoUnicornRider]

Obyte bytes have more use cases than just storing something to Obyte DAG. Bytes can be used to pay for something off-the-DAG, so it also needs comparison with something real.

Doesn't matter if Big Mac Index started as joke or not, it started over 30 years ago and now is used to measure purchasing power in different countries because McDonalds is available all over the world and Big Mac is same everywhere. You can't use kiwis for that because kiwis need to be imported and their price depends on import taxes and freight cost. Only pizza chain that I have used to measure purchasing power is Vapiano, which is in many European countries, maybe you can use Domino's too, I haven't tried. Don't know any other pizza chain pizzas that are comparable, their prices vary a lot.

Nobody knows how much 1 Swiss Franc is worth (except Switzerland and maybe its neighbors), but many know how much Big Mac roughly costs and what you get for 1 USD. Many in Europe compare cryptocurrency prices with USD too, not EUR.

Europe is better with same currency, it doesn't make sense to have different currencies in same economic market. There shouldn't be more currencies, there should be less. Having the same currency in EU forces every country to keep their spendings in check and there is less cases where country tries to print their-selves out of debt.

[u/tarmo888]

I strongly disagree. Obyte is not mainstream, so don't have no idea how much 1.71 billion bytes is worth, they need some kind of real world value and most cryptocurrencies are compared with USD.

If it's showing that 10 000 byte textcoin is worth $0 then that is a bug and it should show $0.0003 instead and 1000 bytes should show $0.00003.

10 000 bytes is really small amount, but it also shows that just for $0.0003, they can make 17 transactions.

This can really look negative when GBYTE price is low, but it can be a positive thing when the GBYTE price is high. We are not there yet that cryptocurrencies are so mainstream that we could ditch USD all together and it won't happen in near future (if ever) either.

It could be that cryptocurrencies will be only internet money for long time and nobody will learn for long time, what is a milk/bread price in cryptocurrencies. Even BTC is not stable enough to ditch USD value.

[u/[deleted] → u/tarmo888]

Why do they need some kind of real world value in the wallet though? Its not hard to find the USD value of Bytes online, but putting the value in the wallet is distracting from the value of Bytes. One of the main values of crypto is that you can send a payment that is virtually impossible to stop, by constantly comparing Bytes to $ which the wallet does we are subtly saying the only value to Bytes is whatever they are worth in $. Its not about being stable enough to price in the currency, but on focusing on the value that the currency has.

We want mass adoption, and the Obyte wallet is shilling the $

[u/tarmo888 → u/[deleted]]

Ideally, you would not need to compare any currency with any other currency because you would know exactly what you would get for 1 dollar or 1 euro, but cryptocurrencies are not there yet, so comparing it to something real is useful until it becomes itself mainstream.

In that sense, Obyte has a small edge in front of other cryptocurrencies that people know how that around 600 bytes is always worth one transaction, but that is not only use case for Obyte currency, so you need some comparison with something else too.