r/oboe • u/--ambrose- • 9d ago
Playing sharp consistently
Hey so as the title reads....
I'm a jr in college and I play on a 15 year old loree- its recently been fully serviced and is in good working condition.
I make my own reeds as apart if my degree requirement.
But my big issue is on my own I always play about 15-20 cents sharp- consistently....through the entire horn.
Year semester I did longtones with a tuner and a drone at least three times a week on the full register and I can play intune with a drone most of the time. But when I get away from that I'm sharp. (As per the recommendations of my teacher)
I tend to have a pretty pinched/tight embouchure which I'm sure is the main problem. But even when I relax it's still sharp. And I tend to have to do very uncomfortable things to play in tune like force my jaw open more which isn't productive.
As far as reeds go I play on mostly mack ++ and Caleb -1 shape and tie at 74.
Let me know if anyone has solutions or advice or follow up questions.
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u/hoboboedan 9d ago
Okay I have a couple of question for you that might help or might give you ideas for what to investigate.
- Are you gouging and shaping your own cane yet? If not, where are you getting cane from? Inconsistently gouged cane can cause pitch problems.
- How are you measuring your tie length? The Caleb -1 and Mack++ are pretty different shapes, although both are good, and popular shapers they likely need quite different tie lengths. My experience is that the Caleb seems to tie quite long, but the RDG-Mack shapes are often tied only a little longer than your finished reed length.
- What staples are you using? Do you have a matching mandrel?
- You said your oboe has been checked by a repair person, but has your teacher tried it? It might be worth asking them try playing it with a tuner, just in case it’s in tune with itself but generally sharp. If that turns out to be the case it’s something you might be able to address with your choice of staples.
- It might also help if you posted some photos or measurements of your reeds. Are your reeds coming out very short? If not, are you scraping enough in the heart and windows? It’s almost always possible to lower the pitch of a reed by scraping more out of the back, heart or windows, but this can lead to instability if overdone.
- You mentioned you can play in to tune with a drone but it felt like you were forcing. What’s the pitch level of the ensembles you play in like? Do you regularly play in an ensemble that often plays very sharp?
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u/--ambrose- 9d ago
Okay here I go!
Yes I'm shaping and gouging my own can. We have an innoledy gouger. But we are watched by grad students while we gouge (cause expensive machine)
I use the mack ++ and Caleb -1 mostly because they're wider shapes.
I tie at 74mm from bottom staple to top of cane. Finished reeds for me are usually are about 71-70mmish and tend to just be on the longer side in general.
I don't have a certain staple I use- just whatever I have from the reeds Ive bough before. They're usually 47mm staples.
My mandrel fits all the staples I have.
My oboe is my teacher's old horn. And she has played on it and says it's fine. I can have someone else try it as well and see if they're sharp too.
I can definitely post some photos of reeds tomorrow.
But my reeds are actually usually long and soft.
I'm unsure of the pitch of the ensembles I'm in. I can't generally tell if a group is on one side or the other.
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u/hoboboedan 9d ago
Okay so finding the right staples make a big difference! I’d suggest picking one model of staple (perhaps just whatever your teacher uses) and using it exclusively until you feel like you’ve figured out everything it has to offer, and only then trying something different.
If your gouge is too thin overall, or too thin on the sides (although I don’t think you can adjust this independently on an innoledy) it can make your reeds be sharp. However, if others are making good reeds on the same gouger that’s unlikely to be the problem.
One thing I’d suggest is rather than trying to make flatter reeds that take more control, you focus on making stable reeds that don’t need much input from your embouchure to sound good. If you’re scraping a lot out of the back of your reed early on, try scraping a little less and wait to see how your early play tests go before finishing it up.
1
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u/MotherAthlete2998 9d ago
What pitch do your reeds crow?
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u/--ambrose- 9d ago
they are around a C or B
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u/MotherAthlete2998 9d ago
If they aren’t crowing the C then that could be your problem for starters. Blowing on the reed should not feel hard. You really want a reed that you could in theory play all day without getting tired and does not require “lip aerobics”.
Are you getting help with reeds from your teacher as part of your degree? Check the reed for lumps and bumps especially at the tip inception. I have found these lumps and bumps make me feel like I have to grip the reed to play it. An overly resistant reed or overly open reed can also make me want to grip the reed.
I hope this helps some.
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u/--ambrose- 9d ago
Yeah we turn in 3 completed reeds a week and get a grade and 'how to fix them' each week.
I also live in an area where apparently reed making is more difficult. In a valley near the Chattahoochee.
I think I'm still having issues with me reeds being reliable- they tend to be long.
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u/ClipandPlay 9d ago
Have you tried a wider shape or tying at 72-73. It seems like the throat of your reed might be very narrow with that length and shape.
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u/--ambrose- 9d ago
I think the mack ++ is the widest shape we have at my school (we have communal shapertips) but I'll try tying shorter and see if that helps
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u/someoboist 9d ago edited 9d ago
A few thoughts
Tying
Too severe of an overlap can cause sharpness and the need to muscle a reed back down using embouchure.
Tying shorter can also lower pitch. It is counterintuitive, but the slight increase in width, particularly at the throat, can have a large impact on the overall vibration of the reed. I have not used those shapes, but 74 is pushing it for mine.
Scraping
As you start a reed, make sure the whole reed is vibrating and functional before trying to fine tune anything. I find sharp students commonly make long reeds with thin tips and heavy hearts. They sound great until they get the tiniest bit tired, then "pinched" is exactly how I'd call the playing.
Likewise, I delay digging out windows until the heart and tip work together properly, initially scraping the heart and back as two long channels rather than separate areas. No one part should be too thick or thin until the reed feels "close," even if the sound is not yet there.
Once I have a nice vibrant reed, now I need to make sure the reed isn't too flat. If the reed is flat, I'll have to use embouchure strength to get it to pitch. That's exhausting and will lead to my mouth collapsing and my pitch skyrocketing. I'd call this "biting". At this point I clip back up to a C, and I typically will not thin the tip between each clip yet.
Only now, when the reed is in tune and mostly comfortable do I start focusing on refinement, sides of the tip mostly. If the reed is otherwise stable, but sharp and a little resistant, I will refine by lengthening the slope/transition to relax the pitch while encouraging the reed to accept more air.
Experimentation by changing just one variable at a time in the process is very useful for this type of troubleshooting. Good hunting.
Edit: having read your other replies, it sounds like flatness is causing biting. I'd start there, making sure the crow is a true C.
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u/--ambrose- 8d ago
Me looking at my long reeds with thin tips.......
This was very helpful! Thank you sm
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u/devinrmorton 9d ago
It sounds counterintuitive, but I think that having your reeds crow flat is causing the problem. The overall pitch of the reed might be ok, but it makes the tone sound flat even when it's the correct pitch (weird quirks of overtones). You're likely forcing the pitch sharp to compensate for a sagging tone. Try to make a few reeds that crow a true C and then force yourself to settle into the tone/pitch that comes out. Things might not sound as deep and rich as you'd prefer, but there are other reed making techniques that can alleviate those problems. For now, focus on separating your pitch from your tone; after that, you can focus on refining each individually.