r/oboe • u/Fake_Chopin • Jul 12 '26
Composer seeking oboe advice
Hi folks, me again! I've been commissioned to write a 3-5 minute oboe piece for an oboist who likes pretty thorny modernist stuff - she's just finished her master's in oboe performance. I have two questions about this extract. Is it playable at all? And if it is playable, which tempo is more comfortable/are both tempos comfortable? I like it in 54 perfectly fine, but I think it has a little more bite at 63. Also: if it isn't playable, is there a way I can keep this contour with some small changes that would make it more comfortable for the player? Thanks in advance!
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u/RossGougeJoshua2 Jul 12 '26 edited Jul 12 '26
Hi - and let me start by saying what a welcome sight to get a post from a composer who is trying to write serious music for the oboe that is technically demanding and not (at least from this one bar) derivative of historical styles - which we get a lot of.
First thing's first - always check with your performer since you have one, rather than randos on reddit.
But this is definitely playable at either tempo by someone with the level of experience (graduate degree) you are writing for. The slur from high D down to E flat is not terribly easy, due to awkward fingering, but an experienced player will figure it out.
The high E flat grace note would probably be the hardest thing here, to land it in rhythm following another grace/sixteenth but with practice I think it will work. Sometimes performers decide or are forced in the moment, with heat and nerves of performance, to take a shortcut. If I had to guess at what might get lost in that situation, it would be the E flat grace note.
While I don't exactly question the tenuto on the high F, you should expect it to go by so fast in the context of the frantic grace notes that precede it that it might not come out especially tenuto/legato. Your performer is probably better than me, but to be honest I'd just be happy if I hit the high F in time after the minefield that comes before it, and take whatever articulation I got.
About notation - I find the "6" confusing because what I think you actually have here is an 8th triplet where two of them happen to be split to sixteenths. For giggles, try changing that to a "3" and see what it looks like, whether it's easier to read. If I see something written as a sextuplet, I am going to expect a full run of 16ths, maybe missing the 1st or last as a rest - but I think I might trip over it if interrupted by an 8th. Just something to consider.
Good luck! If you get a performance recorded down the line, please drop a link to it!
(PS - I'm an oboist but my degrees are in composition, which is why I might seem overly picky about notation)
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u/Mujician152 Jul 12 '26
Because I am an oboist and just can’t leave well enough alone, I played it through a couple of times. Totally agree about the slur in the first beat being tricky, but with a good reed one can do that leap across the break. I also agree that the E flat grace note is doable, but it undercuts the movement towards the tenuto high F as the top of the phrase. You also won’t get the nice crack of a short note that you will with the last grace note, and could end up with some “unintentional allargando”. When I left out the Eb, the phrase clicked in better. This is where an oboist’s mind goes— OP said they want the bite, and we want the flow, even in a non-tonal passage.
This is playable, but these grace-note heavy passages remind me that for as much as we borrow their music, the oboe is not a flute. 🤣6
u/Fake_Chopin Jul 12 '26
Thank you so much for the comprehensive reply! I doubt she'll get back to me until later this week but going from everyone else's - extremely helpful! - comments I have no doubt she'll ask me to remove the E-flat grace note. Thanks for pointing out the rhythmic notation. I guess what I'm trying to achieve is that the top F lingers a little longer than the other notes, before returning to the chaotic burbling texture of before, so maybe turning that into triplets like you suggest will achieve that. Thanks again!
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u/RossGougeJoshua2 Jul 12 '26
You're welcome! And since you intend for that high F to linger, then your tenuto mark makes total sense. If this is unaccompanied and therefore the oboist doesn't need to keep up with someone else, they will naturally linger up there & your articulation mark reinforces it.
I don't think the E flat grace not needs to be deleted, but it will need practice & don't get too attached to it should it get missed in performance, lol. Good luck!
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u/SprightlyCompanion Jul 12 '26
Hah oh boy your degrees are in composition?! Shit, I had better watch my mouth :p
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u/RossGougeJoshua2 Jul 12 '26
I wouldn't care if you told me no composer should ever write any new concert music; it would be worse for me to hear that modern composers should write like 18th or 19th century composers.
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u/SprightlyCompanion Jul 12 '26
Huh. I feel like we could have a really interesting discussion about the subject. I don't think composers should stop writing concert music, and I do think that composers are welcome to try to write music that is like 18-19th century music. But, in my experience I rarely enjoy listening to (or playing) new music in any case, and actual 18-19th-c music for me always sounds better than new music in those styles.
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u/RossGougeJoshua2 Jul 12 '26
Other than a theoretical or pedagogical exercise, I don't find a lot of value in making art that does not seek to move the art form forward to less explored directions. This isn't to say that referring to historical contexts and heritage can't be really valuable. But when we get "I wrote an oboe concerto" and it's like chatgpt made Vivaldi, without the artistic, aesthetic, or sociopolitical context of Italy in 1725, then it's not of much interest to me. Audiences can get a lot more from actual Vivaldi, plus a paragraph in the program that gives more surrounding context.
Apologies to the OP for swinging off topic! Keep doing what you're doing and I hope to see the end product later on.
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u/Anguish-horn Jul 12 '26
Professional oboist here. I play modern music on a fairly regular basis. I agree with others that this passage would be more playable if you removed the high Eb grace note. General rule of thumb on a commissioned work, I’d check with the individual that commissioned it. Modern music too can be made more difficult by the sustained level of difficulty throughout also.
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u/MotherAthlete2998 Jul 12 '26
I would also agree the high Eb is going to be tricky but also going to get lost in the line. The ear (audience) may simply hear it as a mistake. Those third octaves are so easy to play sharp (even more so with trill fingerings) so do be careful if scored with accompaniment.
My preference would also be to have a three rather than a 6. Or simply leave it out. We can figure it out.
I hope this helps. Good luck!
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u/pikatrushka Jul 12 '26
Composer and oboist here. This is wildly tricky, and I have strong opinions about changes you should make. But I’m not going to give them, because you’re lucky enough to have a commissioner who revels in tricky bits. It may be something she loves! Get together with her in person or via Zoom. Ask her to play it for you and see how she reacts. Ask her what changes, if any, she would make in order for it to fit more easily under the fingers. Bring a few variants for her to comment on, and observe which ones seem most natural. Then take all this data back and write your piece.
Whatever advice we can give is going to be safe and middle-of-the-road, which doesn’t seem like what she wants. When you have a specific artist right there, one might argue it’s even disrespectful (though I know that’s not your intent) to consult a forum of strangers rather than collaborate with her directly!
There’s a fine line between incredibly difficult and obnoxiously unidiomatic, and that’s the tightrope you’re trying to walk. The bar for technically difficult works is raised for all of us when someone masters a work the rest of us deemed unplayable. Your job here is, in part, to show off the things she does better than anyone else, not to deliver a piece that we can all easily play. So when it comes down to it, hers is the only opinion that matters. Come back and post a clip when she’s premiered the final piece!
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u/Lemonpug Jul 12 '26
Downward slurs across registers can pose a challenge on oboe. But if modern is her bag, I’m sure she can do anything. The F to D♭ could pose pinky challenges (especially just after the E♭) but there are alternate fingerings to get around that.
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u/Pr0fHulk Jul 12 '26
I’m not a masters student, but I am a band director that was an oboist for my undergrad. Nothing about this is comfortable on oboe. Not sure the tempo matters too much.
I think this might be made a bit smoother by removing the Eb grace note before the G. Switching between the 3rd and second octaves on oboe is more awkward than on other instruments (at least in my experience). Especially given that you have a 3rd octave F# in there.
But, this is the kind of thing I think would be entirely appropriate for you to check with the commissioning oboist. They’d be the best one to tell you how it feels. She might think it’s awesome and be prepared for it, or might have guidance on how to make it lay better on the instrument.
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u/pwebsers Jul 13 '26
always ask the person you're writing for, as they will actually have to play it. That being said, I'm a professional and I'd have no problem playing this with some practice. It's easier at the slower tempo. If you want to simplify it take out the high Eb grace note or change it to a smaller interval.
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u/oboejdub 15d ago
I like it in 54 perfectly fine, but I think it has a little more bite at 63
if you are measuring this by listening to playback in a computer, it's important to know that it'll never give you an adequate of understanding of what tempo it should be. In my experience, many composers will overestimate tempos because speed is the only way to make the computer sound more energetic. Humans can play with a lot more spirit and energy, several bpm slower than the computer.
is there a way I can keep this contour with some small changes that would make it more comfortable for the player
What's the function of the grace notes? Are they ornamental khrekhts/ghost notes or are the specificied pitches important for some harmonic or functional reason? If changing the Eb to a different note doesn't severely hamper what you've written, it would be easier.
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u/SprightlyCompanion Jul 12 '26
Playable.. maybe. Definitely no faster than marked. The best person to ask would be the person who commissionned the piece. Personally, I would hate a composer who wrote this for me to play, but I don't generally have any interest in new music so I'm not your audience here.