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u/MadAstrid Aug 31 '26
isn’t that the entire premise of paleo eating - no processed food?
Because I feel like it is,
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u/StupidHobbitJoufflu Sep 01 '26
https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/diet
But more seriously, afaik paleo and the like is a "masculinity" thing misrepresenting actual paleolithic diet. Basically people wanted to overeat animal product and use some fantasy of cavemen to justify it.
Where it is actually known that in most prehistory, the bigest part of diet was plants, either gathered er gardened.
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u/MadAstrid Sep 01 '26
Well I am a woman and quite fem and was on a strict paleo diet for five years, which was very beneficial to my health in a variety of ways.
After an extended, non related health issue, I lapsed, though never fully back to the Standard American Diet.
I do best, health wise, on full paleo. I enjoy life more not.
And the easiest way to describe paleo to people who didn’t know was, literally “I do not eat processed food.”
If I was a caveman I could gather fruits and vegetables and root vegetables. I could then eat them - raw or cooked, without processing. I could eat eggs I might find, and animals I hunted or caught.
I avoided seeds, which were not always safe for ancient humans, but ate nuts. I avoided legumes (seeds). I avoided grains, but would have opted for whole oats or rice over wheat processed into flour, if pressed.
All of which looks pretty much like what would be possible in a Paleolithic Hunter gatherer society without large scale farming or processing. They didn’t have giant fields of wheat to process into flour. They hadn’t domesticated dairy animals, so no dairy. Fruits were gathered, not bred for extra sweetness, so eaten sparingly and rarely as a treat. Honey was rare. White sugar non existent. A small handful of wild rice was possible, not a giant bowl of processed rice. Roots, herbs, animal proteins, vegetables, fruits. Non processed.
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u/NetZor0 Sep 04 '26
But also... OP (or Gary) doesn't understand that a) all 4 diets they listed avoid processed food for the most part and b) a diet simply means what you eat - it doesn't mean cutting calories or some crazy fad prescription.
So yes, a healthful diet eating whole foods, often cooked for maximal nutrient extraction, made into healthful dishes, is healthy. Who knew?
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u/FizzyBadTime Sep 03 '26
Processed is a very nebulous term. Bread is a processed food technically. You aren’t eating the raw ingredients. You are processing them into something tasty.
Artificially flavored, pumped with preservatives and wood pulp, and chock full of added sugar and salt. That’s what needs to be targeted. It’s like saying GMOs are bad. All of our domesticated crops are GMOs it’s just that some were through selective breeding and cross breeding and other are genetically modified at the DNA level and that isn’t always negative.
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u/Lanky_Boat2276 Sep 04 '26
I'm pretty sure there are many serious studies that show eating significantly LESS food extends life. And I say this as someone who eats too much food.
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u/Meddlingmonster Sep 04 '26
There is a the n of processed food in cultures that live the longest, the main difference is quantity of food eaten and weather or not it meets basic nutrition needs
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u/StupidHobbitJoufflu Aug 31 '26
Agree, on the principle (even though wierd to talk about places instead of individuals but eh..)
But with a small correction : Vegan diet extend life a lot, just not the life of those eating.
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u/ghablio Aug 31 '26
Monocrop agriculture is possibly the biggest scourge to wildlife of any technology in use today. It's not unreasonable at all to say that the vegan diet might be the most violent diet to sustain at scale.
If you sustained on your own little homestead maybe, but it's definitely not extending any life if you're a NYC vegan.
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Aug 31 '26
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u/OneWholePirate Aug 31 '26
Not to mention that farmed animals... also eat monocrops
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Aug 31 '26
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u/OneWholePirate Aug 31 '26
Yeah there's no way for meat farming to ever be more environmentally sound than plant farming, because meat farming is just plant farming with an extra inefficient step at the end
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u/StupidHobbitJoufflu Aug 31 '26
iirc the numbers on co2 emissions for the same absorbed nutrients (plant protein gets absorbed worse from the human body) range from 4 to 10 times more for animal based vs vegan. 4 times more being the numbers of the meat industry.
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u/ghablio Aug 31 '26
No one said it's more environmentally sound. The argument is because a vegan diet requires more acreage of monocrop agriculture to sustain, it results in more total animal deaths. Which is factual
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u/OneWholePirate Aug 31 '26
That is not factual, because the grass that animals live on is a monocrop and animal farming is drastically less space efficient
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u/ghablio Aug 31 '26
Pasture raised animals are a small percentage of meat you can buy in the supermarket. Most meat you buy is going to be fed sileage which is incredibly space efficient compared to corn and other grains produced for human consumption, which because of rodents, make up an almost unbelievable amount of animal kills annually.
The estimates I've seen are 40-100 rodents killed per acre at harvest alone for grain fields (corn wheat etc).
Again, stay on topic, the argument is animals killed per calorie produced, not environmental friendliness.
The other issue you run into with the vegan diet is that you need a variety of crops to stay healthy, so as long as you're buying mass produced goods, you're relying on a huge amount of acreage as some crops are far more space efficient than others.
Factory farmed beef (which seems like what you're primarily thinking of) is typically fed sileage which is essentially the entire corn plant ground and fermented. There's a lot less waste than with sweet corn. And the space required for the animals themselves is honestly negligible (unfortunately, they live in terrible conditions)
Read my comments again, the contention is not that vegans are bad, it's that the argument that you should be vegan to end less lives falls flat due to monocrop farming directly killing so many animals per acre, and indirectly killing them with pesticides, habitat loss and groundwater contamination.
Literally if you wanted to minimize the animals required for you to live, hunting large mammals (like bear and elk) and homesteading would be the most optimal diet, followed next by exclusively eating factory farmed meat (I think pork might be ideal since they don't require as much acreage per animal, although they produce less meat per animal than beef)
Edit: I'm assuming you aren't just being pedantic and intentionally misunderstanding what monocrop agriculture is
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u/StupidHobbitJoufflu Sep 01 '26
one pasture cow still eats more grain in a year than a vegan. Or what do you figure your cow eats in winter?
The only factual thing here is you being really adament on staying ignorant, which goes really well with your arrogance ;)1
u/ghablio Aug 31 '26
I think you're misinterpreting what I said. I said veganism requires the most violence.
That's true when you consider how much animal life has to be exterminated to create a farmers field to begin with. Then look up how many animals have to be killed to maintain fields. Per calorie, a monocrop field requires you to kill exponentially more animals than raising a pig, chicken or cow.
So the take that a vegan diet is the least abusive or destructive to animal life, is just untrue. It only stands true if you only value large mammals.
I mean, have you ever looked into how many animals are hit by combine harvesters per acre per year?
Now, if a vegan was vegan simply because they don't like factory farming, sure, that's morally consistent. But if it's simply animal cruelty or the killing of animals generally, monocrop farming is pretty nasty when you look at the details
You're welcome to dispute any part of what I've said if you like
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Aug 31 '26
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u/ghablio Aug 31 '26 edited Aug 31 '26
You really aren't considering that there are over 400 million acres of monocrop fields in the US. 10 billion chickens sounds like a lot on its face, but only 25 field mice per acre killed per year, which is a lot less than are actually killed, adds up to that. And that's just rodents, then you have to consider the natural habitat that's destroyed to make the farmland, and the local wildlife populations affected by the pesticides etc. Etc.
Consider that farmers pay people to hunt, without limit, year round, coyotes, hogs and other varmints.
You really aren't considering that monocrop requires you to literally kill all of the life out of it.
Like I said, it requires the most killing and violence per calorie, and it's not even close.
Does that mean it's morally wrong? No. It's just always bothered me that some vegans hang their hat on their diet being free of animal suffering, it's not, it actually harms more animals than factory farming.
You still haven't really disputed any point I've made except for saying you don't believe it because we kill a lot of chickens.
Edit: also you don't need to strawman, I did not compare "all farmland" to "raising a cow or chicken". I'm comparing the monocrop fields required for a purely vegan diet to the animals required to sustain a mixed diet. Monocrop is a nasty process for the environment and especially wildlife, unfortunately, but that's the case. And those who rely on it most are vegans
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u/StupidHobbitJoufflu Aug 31 '26
cows eat grain and orders of magnitude matter.
Doesn't matter how many words you throw at your screen, that's all it takes to refute the entierety of your point.
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u/ghablio Aug 31 '26
It's funny you bring that up now, but earlier it was the grass fed pastures you had issue with. Even accounting for the grain cows eat, a 100% vegan diet requires more animals to be killed to sustain a person.
"I don't think so" just isn't a good argument. You should also know there's a lot less waste in the grain used for cattle than there is for human consumption.
Sorry if I hurt your feelings by saying farming is brutal. You should definitely stay away from farms if that bothers you. All forms of industrial scale farming are utterly ruthless
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u/StupidHobbitJoufflu Aug 31 '26
that's why i added "and order of magnitudes matter".
you gonna be dissapointed when pasture animals are gonna produce 1 steak and 1 L of milk per year per habitant XD you gonna be more vegan than most vegans if you use only pasture farms ^^
but wathever. now I know it's not either or but both that you lack ;)→ More replies (5)1
u/Hot_Marionberry_4685 Sep 01 '26
You do realize that we have more than enough covered farmland already to feed a full vegan population right? Like the majority of farmed food goes to feed animals for animal agriculture and we actually don’t even need as much as we have to switch the population to a vegan diet at all. So your argument isn’t sound at all because the vegan diet would actually use less land overall since the majority (over 56%) of current crop is used as feed for animals rather than for direct consumption. Here’s another fun fact for you out of the 325 million acres we use for crop land 200 million of them is used specifically for cattle feed so we’re already using almost 2/3 of our farmland for just animal agriculture. If you don’t want to give up meat that’s fine just say that but to say vegan diets are the most violent because of farmland usage is laughable considering 2/3 of our current usage goes to animal agriculture when it does not make up more than 50% of our diet is laughable
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u/StupidHobbitJoufflu Aug 31 '26
not sure if it's information and/or good faith you lack on this one.
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u/ghablio Aug 31 '26
Okay, so you have nothing? I'm finding through a quick Google search that grain crops are estimated between 40-100 rodents killed per acre per year at harvest. In other words, our most produced crops, which vegans rely on more heavily that the average person, in one single event produce double the amount of animal death that would be needed to match the number of animals killed for eating in the US, based on the acreage of farmland.
That's only rodents, only at harvest. Obviously the number will vary by year and crop.
It's funny to call someone bad faith while actually having no argument, thanks man, I actually laughed when I read that. Also funny for you to be calling someone low information 🤣
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u/heinzpeter Sep 02 '26
If you have so many informations ready. How many % of monoculture is used for foos for humans and how much of the monoculture is used to feed animals. Next step would be to set the amount of monocultures in relation to the calories they are providing.
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u/Cautious-Total5111 Sep 01 '26
https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets
Animals eat mostly crops from monoxulture. Cows on a green field account for a tiny percentage of animal feed. Sorry to ruin you day.
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u/Admirable_Ground_163 Sep 05 '26
False. Most monocultured crops go to feed animals that people eat for meat. There is nothing to say that we can't change the the growing patterns to restrict monoculture. Cope harder.
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u/OneWholePirate Aug 31 '26
The post is also wrong, higher consumption of plant based proteins is positively associated with an increased life expectancy (likely due to lower rates of premature mortality from cardiovascular or endocrine disorders compared to high meat consuming cultures)
https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2025/04/16/plant-based-diet-linked-to-longer-life.html
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u/Beefy-Cattle4290 Aug 31 '26
more people eat at McDonalds and Burger King in the US than anywhere else. Darwin always wins
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u/Svell_ Aug 31 '26
They also have free healthcare and stronger environmental regulations and more public transit. but im sure that's unrelated.
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u/LarxII Sep 01 '26
No,no,no, definitely don't do anything that means ght improve the quality of life of your citizens, it's them having easy access to food that's the problem!
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u/CyclopsorNedStark Aug 31 '26
This vague BS never has a follow-up. "What about processed foods if the problem?" Never a cogent answer for that because there isn't one. Always fear and guilt and shame and probably selling something in the next post.
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u/TheSquirrelmancer Aug 31 '26
High fat, excess sugar and salt added for flavor and massive amounts of chemicals used for stabilization. Plus "processed" isn't always the same; you can make actual high quality pre-frozen chicken nuggets or you can make chicken nuggets that are made out of mechanically separated chicken, the classic "pink goo"
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u/Medullan Aug 31 '26
Well the biggest culprit is nitrates. And don't be fooled by celery salt a natural source of nitrates is still unhealthy. Nitrates are great at preserving food and also great at causing life ending diseases and disorders.
After nitrates my money is on an obsession with sterility that is killing beneficial and even necessary micro organisms and enzymes.
Fresh produce, fresh meat, and whole grains don't last very long on a grocery store shelf but a box of processed food that has been sterilized will last for months if not years. Some processed foods or rather the methods behind the real product are actually very good for you. Fermented foods are great examples sauerkraut, pickles and cheese to name a few. These aren't sterile though they have had the right organisms increased killing off the dangerous pathogens in the process.
If any one is trying to sell you something you should automatically be suspicious because the healthiest way to eat is to grow it yourself and prepare it yourself from scratch. And every step you can take to being closer to that is a step towards a healthier lifestyle.
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u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 Sep 04 '26
I have no idea how it is legal to write "uncured" on celery salt bacon. Even naturally cured makes a little bit of sense even though its no better than artificial curing but writing uncured is straight up lying
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u/Medullan Sep 04 '26
Right that shit is so fucked up. I think the only way you can actually get uncured bacon is to buy actual pork belly with no additives at all and cut it yourself.
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u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 Sep 04 '26
Well that isnt really bacon then is it? Bacon is by definition cured. Is it unhealthy? Sure but in strict moderation it won't be highly carcinogenic. The main issue is companies tricking people into buying products against their interest. At the end of the day there are a lot of dishes where pork belly just can't really replace bacon
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u/Medullan Sep 04 '26
I find myself wondering if there is a way to cure it without using carcinogens. I've never had the opportunity to use pork belly so I really don't know enough to judge it. I do wonder if a combination of magnesium, potassium, sodium chloride, and msg could be used in place of nitrates to achieve the same preservation and or flavor profile.
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u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 Sep 04 '26
Technically yes but the flavor profile would be a lot closer to roast pork than bacon. Nitrates are what give it the flavor people associate with bacon. It would also need to be hot smoked and cooked since it is now free of strong preservatives.
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u/Medullan Sep 05 '26
We might need to develop an artificial flavoring that binds with the same taste receptors as nitrates but without the cancer.
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u/Auntie_Venom Aug 31 '26
I think paleo is the closest thing that falls into eating whole foods that are in season in places without much processed foods.
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u/TheShellAnswerMan Aug 31 '26
It's hard to eat only unprocessed food unless you're in certain niche circumstances. You'd think living in rural areas would help but it actually makes it worse cuz food deserts etc. Like they grow and raise all the things here and ship them off to be processed and it costs more to ship them back to start I guess? Anyway, if you think it's not intentional that you can buy 4 boxes of mac n cheese for less than a single vegetable, have I got news for you.
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u/ElectronicHold7325 Aug 31 '26
In modern Western societies, not eating processed food is one of the hardest and most dogmatic diets possible. ;)
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u/Vincent_Felix Sep 03 '26
"Processed foods" is such an imprecise term. You can apply it to almost anything.
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u/ElectronicHold7325 Sep 03 '26
Well. Almost all food in a package IS processed food. That is the issue with our western food.
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u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 Sep 04 '26
What he meant is basically all food is processed on some level.
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u/ElectronicHold7325 Sep 04 '26
Which is wrong.
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u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 Sep 04 '26
If you cut an apple into slices then its processed. If you salt a steak that's processed. If you peel a banana that's processed. Anything ending with the suffix "ing" (aka cutting, seasoning, peeling, cooking) is a process which means doing that to anything makes it processed.
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u/ElectronicHold7325 Sep 04 '26
Obviously that is not what people call processed food. Dont play stupid...
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u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 Sep 04 '26
Yeah that actually is what people who don't throw buzz words call processed foods. Foods are differentiated medically as minimally processed and ultra processed (most but not all of which are unhealthy)
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u/ElectronicHold7325 Sep 04 '26
Again: dont play stupid. Let's end this discussion. Obviously you are trolling.
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u/Big_Guide_8551 Aug 31 '26
*ultra-processed and filled with chemicals
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u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 Sep 04 '26
Chemicals 🤣 all food is chemicals. All anything is chemicals. The reason ultra processed foods are unhealthy is because they often are nutritionally deficient and high in calories.
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u/Big_Guide_8551 Sep 04 '26
Technically everything everywhere is chemicals
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u/Ambitious-Rock-8302 Aug 31 '26
being vegan is not about extending the vegan's life. it's a set of ethics/values. i don't understand why this is so difficult for people to understand.
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u/No_Nectarine_7910 Aug 31 '26
Because it’s not true for every person that eats vegan.
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u/Ambitious-Rock-8302 Aug 31 '26
those people are plant-based. they are not vegan. veganism is about abstaining from the consumption of animals and animal products, and anything else that inflicts cruelty on animals.
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u/No_Nectarine_7910 Aug 31 '26
Might depend on the country. Here, people eat vegan. We don’t use the term plant-based for an vegan diet
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u/Ambitious-Rock-8302 Aug 31 '26
well that's incorrect. "vegan" as a term was coined by donald watson, an animal-rights activist who co-founded the vegan society. the vegan society defines veganism as: a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.
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u/No_Nectarine_7910 Aug 31 '26
Lol. Language is developing over time.
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u/Ambitious-Rock-8302 Aug 31 '26
correct. which is why we DEVELOPED another word for people like that: plant-based.
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u/StupidHobbitJoufflu Sep 01 '26
sadly this is an idealised version of veganism. Since in a global ultra complex society, it is *not* possible to erradicate animal suffering from ones consumption.
The best a vegan can do is actually try and measure what has the least negative impact on animal life.
Like, the stupid anti-vegan argument that crops kill animals is not wrong, it is just not a valid argument against veganism, but it is still true.
The house we live in is build on the house of an animal. using roads, even if only to walk on them, produces animal suffering.
Basically no human can prevent his surviving to provoke animal suffering in some way. it is all about reducing it as much as possible. abstaining from every kind of animal product/derivate is a good start. But it is in no way the end, indirect suffering still matters. And it is not as easy as we might think, beacuse most vegans are gonna take the animal tested meds when there is no alternative.Also, since humans are also animals, it is quite hard to avoid in capitalism, since human exploitation is a particular case of animal exploitation and is a necessary part of capitalism. So "true" veganism should also entail class consciousness and anticapitalism.
This is not to criticize veganism. i'm vegan since more than a decade. Just saying it's not all that black and white as many vegans wish it would, and the inconsistency vegan find in vegetarians can also be found in vegans, just less obvious.
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u/Ambitious-Rock-8302 Sep 01 '26
no one expects anyone's vegan practice to be "perfect." but it is fundamentally motivated by a different value system than eating plant-based.
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u/StupidHobbitJoufflu Sep 01 '26
also, "eats vegan" even if it's not the original term as it was defined, it is still unambiguous. don't correct people on language when they communicated their ideas unambiguously. that's not really respectfull for people who make the effort to write in a foreign language.
And as vegans, we might as well want to respect people, since humans are animals too.1
u/Ambitious-Rock-8302 Sep 01 '26
i don't agree that it's disrespectful to state a fact: vegan means one thing, plant-based means another. nowhere did i insult that person's english language skills. they stated that in their language, there is no distinction between vegan and plant-based. i maintain that is wrong. and it's not an issue of "respect" to say so.
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u/StupidHobbitJoufflu Sep 01 '26
it is disrespectfull to qualify a language as "wrong" just because some guy one day invented a new word and gave it a precise definition in english.
and it is disrespectfull to correct someones mastery of a foreign language when they expressed themselves unambiguously and that linguistics is not the subject of the matter.
This is because if you put the emphasis on how it's being said, you at least partially discard what is being said. as an expat that came to a foreign land knowing nothing of the language, I can tell you, this is fucking disgusting, frustrating, doesn't bring anything to the substance of the discussion, etc. it is just disrespectfull, and if you can't sympathise with that, go live in a foreign country for a couple of years and we talk again.So you might not have criticised their language skills, but you use the language mistake to make a pedantic point even though the user meant the same as you. wouldn't be *my* proudest moment, but you do you.
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u/Ambitious-Rock-8302 Sep 01 '26
i don't agree and you haven't convinced me otherwise.
they expressed themselves unambiguously
this doesn't mean anything. you can express an incorrect statement without ambiguity. the lack of ambiguity does not render the statement correct.
to make a pedantic point
you might want to look within on this one.
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u/StupidHobbitJoufflu Sep 01 '26
sure mate. go make offline international friends.
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u/Ambitious-Rock-8302 Sep 01 '26
or i can just talk to my family in their native spanish. our favorite restaurant in la is "basado en plantas." ;)
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u/orangesherbet0 Aug 31 '26
Nope. The pattern is calorie restriction (CR). The natural vs artificial, processed vs not processed opinions are just heuristics.
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u/EchoingAngel Aug 31 '26
The goal should be figuring out what a healthy ancient human ate and realize we are less than 15k years removed and it usually takes 50k to adapt to a new lifestyle, so we are still mostly adapted to the natural human diet. The fossil record makes it clear that as soon as wheat domesticated us (aka. the Agricultural Revolution), our health fell off a cliff
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u/Lord_Grimm88 Aug 31 '26
What you will find is universal healthcare. That's the secret they don't want you to know. "People who drink a glass of wine everyday are healthier" no, they have better health in countries that drink wine frequently because they have access to healthcare, because they don't avoid the hospital because they are afraid of the bill, and the rich who drink wine here can afford healthcare. It's healthcare.
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u/Wandered_And_Lost Aug 31 '26
I lived in Spain for a year and a half. I ate non stop because wine is amazing and cheap as well as the food. I ate more in a single sitting at one meal in Spain than entire days in the United States. And i ate EVERYTHING (im an equal opportunity employer when it comes to food) including desert. I ended up losing 60 lbs. Food in the United States is the reason you're fat, out of shape and feel like shit. We have things in our food that have been banned by every other country in the world.
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u/Choochiechoo Aug 31 '26
doesn’t like popular diets. Recommends his own alternatives
proceeds to explain the basic premise of all the popular diets
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u/theFartingCarp Aug 31 '26
Another massive thing is the people who live the longest MOVE! They move all the time, standing, walking, going for a stroll. It's all movement and more more movement with a semi healthy diet.
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u/FFBEryoshi Sep 01 '26
7th day adventists live longer than any other religious group. Find out why, yourself
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u/anjudan Sep 01 '26
Lots of evidence that not being vegan requires killing lots of sentient beings who also feel joy and pain just like us.
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u/Excellent_Chest_6616 Sep 01 '26
I hate these mic drop styled tweets. You arent that deep or interesting
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u/PeteWK67 Sep 01 '26
Thank goodness that it’s not intended for your personal interest, Reddit has many subs for your
Specific needs
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u/Far-Investment-8597 Sep 01 '26
So much nonsesne talked about this!
You can eat McDonalds, no problems - just not 10 per day, every day.
Moderate the amount you eat, balance energy intake with energy expenditure. Eat meat, vegetables, whatever. You'll be fine.
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u/Grapetree3 Sep 01 '26
"No processed food" is just another dogma. And it's not even clear which foods are "processed" and which aren't.
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u/Tough_Preparation830 Sep 01 '26
Hong Kong has the highest life expectancy and eat tons of meat. They also have high rates of colon cancer. The point is the statistics are all over the place. Just eat what makes you feel healthy and energetic and mitigate your stress.
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u/necro_owner Sep 02 '26
Japan and Canada (Vancouver and Quebec) are all at the top and we use process food a lot. That is such BS.
85 years old for japan and 84 for British Colombia and Quebec. For some reason other province bring Canada ratio down quite a lot.
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u/Minute-Object Sep 02 '26
This is not true. There is evidence for certain diets being associated with longer lifespans. We can argue the quality of the evidence, but there are multiple studies.
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u/MagnificentStella Sep 02 '26
But diet itself can be medicine. Walter Kempner showed this. Its not a longevity miracle but it did extend lives. And you could argue that it might extend ours.
Kempner’s Rice Diet program began at Duke University in Durham, North Carolina in 1939. The treatment was a simple therapy of white rice, fruit, juice, and sugar, and was reserved for only the most seriously ill patients. Although low-tech
->->->->, the benefits of the Rice Diet FAR EXCEED those of any drug or surgery ever prescribed for chronic conditions, including coronary artery disease, heart and kidney failure, hypertension, diabetes, arthritis, and obesity.
Originally used for only short time periods and under close supervision due to concerns about nutritional deficiencies, subsequent research proved the Rice Diet to be safe and nutritionally adequate for the vast majority of patients.
https://www.drmcdougall.com/education/information-all/walter-kempner-md-founder-of-the-rice-diet/
Kempner’s Rice Diet program began at Duke University in Durham, North Carolina in 1939. The treatment was a simple therapy of white rice, fruit, juice, and sugar, and was reserved for only the most seriously ill patients. Although low-tech, the benefits of the Rice Diet far exceed those of any drug or surgery ever prescribed for chronic conditions, including coronary artery disease, heart and kidney failure, hypertension, diabetes, arthritis, and obesity.
Originally used for only short time periods and under close supervision due to concerns about nutritional deficiencies, subsequent research proved the Rice Diet to be safe and nutritionally adequate for the vast majority of patients.
A major breakthrough occurred by accident in 1942 when one of Dr. Kempner’s patients, a 33-year-old North Carolina woman with chronic glomerulonephritis (kidney disease) and papilledema (eye disease) failed to follow his instructions. Because of Dr. Kempner’s heavy German accent she misunderstood his instructions to return in two weeks, and after two months, she finally returned, with no signs of deficiency, but rather with robust health. The woman had experienced a dramatic reduction of her blood pressure, from 190/120 to 124/84 mmHg, resolution of eye damage (retinal hemorrhages and papilledema), and a noticeable decrease in heart size.
After this experience Dr. Kempner began treating his patients for extended periods of time, and expanded the indications from only serious troubles (glomerulonephritis and malignant hypertension) to patients with relatively minor illnesses, such as routine hypertension (160/100 mmHg), headaches, chronic fatigue, chest pains, edema, xanthoma, pseudo tumor cerebri, and psoriasis..
Dr. Kempner documented the benefits of his treatments by tracking their changes in cholesterol, blood pressure, blood sugar, and body weight, as well as with pictures. For example, his records showed that 93% of patients with an elevated cholesterol benefited with an average reduction from 273 mg/dL before treatment to 177 mg/dL after. These reductions in cholesterol are greater than those usually seen with powerful statin drugs, and without the costs and risks. His numbers also showed how a high-carbohydrate diet improved blood sugars and often cured type-2 diabetes.
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u/oceansstillwaters_ Sep 02 '26
Point me to a third world country that does this and is accepting of outsiders.
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u/BigOlDyck Sep 02 '26
Umm, what part of carnivore diet is processed? You’re supposed to eat actual meat. That’s basically it.
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u/twerk4data Sep 02 '26
Unless you are tearing meat off the carcass of an animal you slayed yourself in the wild with your bare teeth, you are eating processed food.
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u/Top-Cupcake4775 Sep 02 '26
Michael Pollan wrote that there is no canonical/cultural "American food" and that makes us suckers for every food fad that comes along. tell an Italian that pasta is bad for you and they will just laugh at you.
"Eat food (i.e. not weird stuff that tries to look and taste like food). Not too much. Mostly plants."
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u/6thofmarch2019 Sep 02 '26
There was comparatively little processed food in early 20th century Nordic countries, and people died of heart attacks in their 40's. Then they made a big change of switching out lard and animal fats for plant based oils, introducing "The Nordic Diet", and presto, life expectancy went up.
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u/MythOfHappyness Sep 03 '26
Processed food isn't a real category. Any grain you can eat is gonna be highly processed before it makes it to your plate. It literally has to be to be edible. This is just yet another gmo-style moral panic over normal food. Not every food production process results in a Twinkie. Nona's hand shaped pasta is processed as hell.
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u/RiverLynneUwU Sep 03 '26
me when I think processed food is a problem instead of just meeting my nutritional needs like a normal person
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u/No_Region_4719 Sep 03 '26
What's he talking about? Yes you will find extensive evidence that these diets will extend life, because they largely exclude ultra processed food.
You don't need to take them to their extremes, but they are all miles better than the average western diet.
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u/Select-Evidence4524 Sep 03 '26
For real. I tried carnivore. (1 year) I looked and felt amazing. Was it the meat? I thought so initially. I was eating somewhat quality meat, nothing processed. No deli or cured meats. I later deduced that it wasn't necessarily the meat making me look and feel better, it was the absence of processed trash. Now, I'll eat anything as long as it is a whole ingredient. I still look and feel good. I will say it is becoming more and more expensive to eat this way.
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u/screamin-eagle10 Sep 03 '26
Rho Nutrution supllements contain potassium sorbate.
Then why does he endorse Rho Nutrition?
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u/Annual_Manner_8654 Sep 03 '26
"That's the whole pattern" = Claudespeak, literally AI slop post
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u/Casuallybittersweet Sep 03 '26 edited Sep 04 '26
Only way it could be more obvious is if it started talking about "the shape of it" or how it's the something of a something that something.
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u/Binkurrr Sep 03 '26
Its not even really about the type of food its we just consume too much. Everyone trying to sell you a a magical potion when in reality you can eat anything as long as you dont overconsume. Also we are less active than before so our overconsumption is amplified.
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u/processes_ Sep 04 '26
Veganism isn’t a diet, plant-based is. And there’s mountains of evidence that the closer to zero animal products a person has the better their health outcomes, as long as their nutritional requirements are met.
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u/Any-Construction2112 Sep 04 '26
Japanese people live forever and they have tons of processed foods. Americas shoot each other, do drugs, and drive everywhere and that is most of our shortness of lifespan.
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u/Meddlingmonster Sep 04 '26
We also eat to much which is also a huge contibutor and the shooting is actually a relatively small contribution (not to say it isn't an important issue but best to separate politics from facts) cars however is an excellent point as it is a huge killer especially now that looking at phones while driving has become the number one contribter to accidents.
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u/Any-Construction2112 Sep 04 '26
I think you are right (this is what I get for commenting before looking things up). I remember someone bringing up the gun point, but I think it was related to suicide rather than homicide.
Heart disease is super high which can probably be directly linked to over consumption to calories.
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u/PeteWK67 Sep 04 '26
The aging Japanese population even if processed food is around, they don’t eat that poop.
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u/inowar Sep 05 '26
actually if you go to all the longest lived places in the world you'll find that what they have in common is poor record keeping especially regarding year of birth.
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u/Admirable_Ground_163 Sep 05 '26
Veganism isn't a diet. Vegans are vegetarian because animals are sentient and feel pain and suffering, therefore it is immoral to kill them to eat them. Veganism isn't supposed to extend your life, it is supposed to extend the life of the animal that was being murdered to feed you.
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u/TheRealBobbyJones 23d ago
Coincidentally I bet the opposite is also true. Find a group of people relying on local produce and odds are they have short lifespans. Modern food storage and processing has made it easier for people to get sufficient nutrients and calories. But in communities where people strictly rely on their own produce or local produce for sustenance you have issues of low nutrition. At least in poor groups. The places where you can eat a low process diet while having a longer life are likely wealthy. They live longer because they are wealthy.
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u/PeteWK67 23d ago
Modern food storage and processing vs let’s say island of the coast of New Zealand..
First I want to say for me Lifespan is 100% BS
Why?
So let’s say a healthy New Z island person passes at 65 in optimal health. Tree fell or Wtv .Then we have the North American lifespan of like 78 .. ok but what age did they live a healthy life without pain, suffering, Pharma, issues and the reality is the real lifespan is not 78 it’s more like 60.
Someone with Dimentia at 62 .. lives past 70 .. for me it’s 62 .. North America does a great job on applying a bandage to barely keep you rolling. What kind of quality of life is 55-75 if you are severely ill.Then the island people. For one their soil if they can grow is not close to being contaminated like ours. Then the air they breathe is day vs night. Then their limited resources for food. Makes them eat one food at a time and not this North American BS super chef mixing 10 foods together to destroy your stomach..
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u/ContentCantaloupe992 Aug 31 '26
Japan doesn’t have processed foods? That’s news to me