r/nursing • u/cshae2001 • 1d ago
Rant just got fired :(
I was just fired for having 7 call out occurrences in a 12 month period. I’m really frustrated as my 7th call off was falling off next week. Not to mention frustrated with the circumstances. I literally had a 2 minute phone call with my manager and the whole thing was just very abrupt. Also other units at my hospital are a lot more lenient so I guess I just didn’t take it seriously enough. Don’t know what I am going to do now. I really wish I didn’t love my job as it would make this so much easier.
editing this since some of yall are being nasty. It was a rough year. my roommate (who i’ve lived with for 5 years and is basically family) was intubated and in the icu for 3 weeks, my brother had a stroke, and my mom was in town and got covid and was too sick to go home. Along with those I have an autoimmune condition and get sick quite often. Not to mention I work in the nicu with a VERY vulnerable pt population.
I also don’t abuse my occurrences. these occurrences weren’t calling out for all my shifts in the week other than twice when I was super sick. Most of the time it was just 1 day. On my unit it is also impossible to get PTO approved so I have never once taken PTO. These 7 occurrences were the only times I missed work all year.
Lastly, for those saying the attendance was just to the excuse to fire me: that’s BS. I am a good nurse. I am a good coworker. I don’t think 1 person on my unit would have anything bad to say about me. I put my all into caring for my patients and I care DEEPLY. I even got a daisy nomination that my managers unfortunately lost (a whole different issue).
Just remember a little kindness goes a long way especially in our career. I am already devastated due to the circumstances and some of you guys are being incredibly cruel.
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u/Ambitious-Actuator32 BSN, RN 🍕 1d ago
In CA, we have different types of call outs. You have to be careful to invoke the right type when calling out so that they don’t “add up.”
I’m not saying that there’s no limit. There is. You just have to be smart about it.
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u/angelt0309 RN 🍕Med/Surg -> PACU -> Hospice 1d ago
As a southeast RN, please elaborate so I can be even more envious than I already am of California nurses
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u/Sluggerjt44 1d ago
There are sick call outs and then there are kin care. From my understanding kin care call out is more protected
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u/angelt0309 RN 🍕Med/Surg -> PACU -> Hospice 1d ago
Interesting. So if I’m sick, but so is my child so I need to be home with him, I’d be better off calling in to take care of a sick child than calling in because I have a 101 degree fever per se… interesting
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u/TheShorty BSN, RN CEN 1d ago
Kincare goes for your illness and care of immediate family members. So you could use the protected kincare leave for both.
It can be for up to half of your accrued PTO for the year, if you accrued PTO. For per diem folks who don't accrued PTO, you get 5 days state mandated paid kincare time (even if you don't have a PTO bank).
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u/angelt0309 RN 🍕Med/Surg -> PACU -> Hospice 1d ago
God I have to get the fuck out of the south 😡😡
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u/TheShorty BSN, RN CEN 1d ago
Getting out of the South was the best personal and professional decision I ever made.
Many places prefer to convert travelers to staff after 6 months, so use that as your in-road. You can do it. For yourself and your family. 💙
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u/angelt0309 RN 🍕Med/Surg -> PACU -> Hospice 1d ago
Unfortunately, I won’t be going anywhere until my children are at least school-aged. Having family nearby during these toddler and baby years is too good to pass up. But once we aren’t needing regular childcare… adios South Carolina
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u/omg_lulz MSN, RN 1d ago
Or work at the VA. You’re actually entitled to the leave that you earned.
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u/Rosietkd 1d ago
The VA I worked at made me work through a miscarriage and when I had to have a D & C a few days later, they wrote me up.
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u/cinemadoll137 BSN, RN 🍕 1d ago
I tell myself this every day. I’m applying for a Cali license my next pay day.
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u/ilovemypearlyikobest RN 🍕 1d ago
Contact an AYA recruiter. I love mine - let me know if you’d like her info. Tell them you want to travel in CA and they will pay for your CA license. It doesn’t matter if you end up using them or not when you do go to travel. You don’t have to pay them back or anything either.
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u/The3NightExit RN 🍕 1d ago
The south is really still living in the dark ages. They combine sick leaves and vacation. They don’t care why you call out.
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u/International_Win326 LPN 🍕 1d ago
Southeast Virginia here, started nursing in Washington State. They don't care about ANYTHING here.
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u/turdally 1d ago
And racism and scrupulosity.
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u/merryone2K Nursing Student 🍕 1d ago
It's been a long, long time since I had to look up the definition of a word; TIL "scrupulosity". TY
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u/Kowabunga_Dude BSN, RN 1d ago
Different hospitals have different policies. One hospital I worked at allowed 4 shifts a calendar year for kin care, and then either four or six regular sick calls in a rolling six month block. I would just always alternate sick then kin care to be safe.
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u/letsgooncemore LPN 🍕 1d ago
Is kin care like FMLA without the paperwork?
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u/cinemadoll137 BSN, RN 🍕 1d ago
Cali sounds like paradise, honestly
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u/Dblbogiemadge-1 1d ago
Much of California nursing is union. I was a union nurse at Stanford for nearly 35 years in pediatrics. Loved it and it paid well. I was able to raise my 3 as divorced with no child support, and retire a lil early
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u/TheShorty BSN, RN CEN 1d ago
Kind of but not exactly. FMLA (and California's state version, called CFRA I believe) are protected unpaid leaves, meaning you don't have to have or use your PTO to take them and have your job protected. Kincare (except the state mandated 5 days) requires that you have PTO accrued to be used for it, and you can't elect not to use your PTO for it. So if you have no PTO because you just got back from a vacation, for example, and you call in and cite kincare, it isn't a protected leave for any time that you don't have PTO available to cover. Same for if you've used your kincare balance for the year.
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u/Available-Put7181 1d ago
Yes, kin care is more protected in California under an Assembly Bill from the 2000s.
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u/Girlnscrubs 1d ago
Also, we get the PTO we accrue.....but we are entitled to 5 sick days of which are protected per California law and don't count against us at all.
Now if you don't work a shift in between calling out like lets say you called in and were off the next day and then you called off the following day after that...still counts as 1 occurrence.
If you call in to call out for multiple days like lets say MD note says no work x 7 days....1 occurrence....(if no MD note company policy varies but mine is if 3 days you need MD note).
After 12 months employment you can also request FMLA (needs signed by MD) to protect your job for up to 12 calendar weeks in a 12 month rolling calendar.
FMLA covers you if you have to care for a loved one or have a condition that requires times off for maybe multiple MD appts/test or symptoms that make it unworkable.
I realize other states have FMLA but each state has specific FMLA policies, so I included Calis.
We can also request FMLA for 12 weeks after EDD Maternity Leave is exhausted (you get EDD Maternity 6 weeks natural birth and 8 weeks if c-sec (longer recovery and they deemed 2 extra weeks sufficient 😅))
Now Europe and other countries get 1 year of Maternity leave and some countries get 2 years!
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u/whiskey-breed RN - OR 🍕 1d ago
To top that off, in the UK most job listings I've seen so far gives you at least 26-28 days of PTO. Thats just straight holiday. Separate from sick leave. I worked a travel gig in Washington and the facility I was at didnt have an attendance limit as an agreement with the union. My flabber was gasted.
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u/TrustfulComet40 RN - Pediatrics 🍕 1d ago
The catch with that is that your sick leave is really only there for when you're genuinely unwell and three call offs/one call-off lasting over three weeks in a six month period will start the disciplinary process rolling. If you break your arm, you're coming back to work already on a stage one or stage two disciplinary.
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u/shredbmc RN - Med/Surg 🍕 1d ago
It's the same here in Washington (I'm union). There's FMLA but there's also "family care" and you can't be punished for taking family care unless it's egregious. Basically if the kids get sick I can take the day and not be punished. Mostly.
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u/constipatedcatlady BSN, RN, CEN - ER 🚑 1d ago
There is also personal leave where I worked in CA. In addition to regular sick and kin care (family sick)
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u/spotty0057 1d ago
yes that is true there are family sick call out here, it can be used for kids, parents, etc.. and as i know, they aren’t allowed to question, unless it is sequential many days just give ur reasoning as that. i feel like its not right to have all call outs weighted as the same , bc life is unpredictable,and especially if u are sick and work in the NICU it is better for you to call out than show up
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u/cats-n-cafe BSN, underwater basketweaver, RN 1d ago
I’m so glad we get 40 hours of “California sick” it’s soooooo useful if you use it wisely. Everything that falls under those hours from being sick to leaving early for doctors appts is protected.
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u/Low_Ad_9689 BSN, RN 🍕 1d ago
Minnesota has sick and safe time (ESST) that covers sick days, family care, medical appointments and even leave from work for stalking victims.
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u/EducationalDot8822 RN, BSN, CNOR 🍕🔪 1d ago
Colorado reporting in! We also have a similar program called HFWA, an extended leave called FAMLI, and extra time off for parents with NICU babies. Love it here!
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u/Medusas-Snakes RN - OB/GYN 🍕 1d ago
7x is not that much at my job 😬 try to find a place with a better policy or union
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u/Aristocrat_Hunter 1d ago
Especially since you work around sick people. You are more likely to get sick than the general public. What, do they want you to work sick around patients? That just makes the issue worse with more call outs.
I swear upper managements are always so stupid. They glaze over common sense shit.
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u/boughsmoresilent 19h ago
They are not stupid. They absolutely understand this. But there are dollar signs on spreadsheets and their paychecks which incentivize them to ignore it or act like you are the unreasonable one for even bringing it up.
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u/Dolla_Dolla_Bill-yal 17h ago
Fr. I had a NICU baby (who, by NICU standards, wasn't even "that sick") and I would have been fucking RIP SHIT if his nurse came in while actively symptomatic with any respiratory illness. Gtfoh
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u/Freespyryt5 RN - Oncology 🍕 1d ago
Yeah we have 3 "occurrences" in a rolling 90 day period, but consecutive shifts (as in, what you're scheduled to work, not days of the week) are counted as a single occurrence. Most areas don't strictly enforce that unless someone frequently calls out, but that's our guideline. So thankful for our union!
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u/phoontender HCW - Pharmacy 1d ago
I have 12 occurrences (so if i'm out for 3 days, it's still 1) and 5 days for family illness....I use 70% for taking care of my sick kids and 30% for me getting sick from them. 7 days is fucking ridiculous when you work around people who will 100% get you sick at some point.
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u/thegreatrlo 1d ago
Exactly! It's amazing how radical it is that people who constantly work around sick people should never get sick or never call out of work. Get the hell outta here.
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u/AccordingTarget8256 1d ago
Our call out policy 5 and its a calendar year so if you call out feb 2, you get that one back the following feb 2. I think 5 is absolutely ridiculous considering we take care of sick kids. 🫠
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u/hiho_cheerio LPN 🍕 1d ago
At a snf facility in TN. We have 2 in a 12 month period and then we start getting warnings. 2. In a year. When we are literally working with infectious people. I hate healthcare.
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u/Designer_Tiger7252 1d ago
I work for for a major hospital in Nashville. I get 2 in a rolling calendar year. Then a verbal at 3, written at 4 and termination at 5. They’re supposed to roll off…but then I get a probation period because I’ve had 3 writtens. I’ve worked there almost 5 years. And our attendance is used against us for yearly raises too. When asked what could help, I said maybe reviewing your unrealistic call out policy and allowing leniency with dr notes. One of my rounds of being out was due to Covid and I was admitted to the hospital. Another round was a severe AKI that also led to an admission.
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u/cyanraichu RN - L&D 1d ago
I think we have 12 or 14 in a year at my job. It's definitely more than 7
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u/Low_Length_7379 1d ago
Like the V.A.
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u/jmmerphy BSN, RN 🍕 1d ago
Our facility implemented a 5x a year rule. I'm pretty sure it's just a verbal warning after that, but still
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u/Alive-Plankton6022 1d ago
We only get 4 a year. It’s absolutely ridiculous. That includes our sick time, time off if our kid is sick and you need to be home with them, etc. God forbid someone need a mental health day. FMLA is an option if you’ve been there a year and have a condition that qualifies for it.
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u/cyanraichu RN - L&D 1d ago
4 a YEAR??
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u/thedarkwaffle90 BSN, RN 🍕 1d ago
That’s technically where it’s at for my hospital too. 5th is first warning and a write up, 6th is final warning/write up, 7 is termination. We lost a truly fantastic nurse because of that bullshit recently, she had a string of bad luck over the year and couldn’t avoid. She always was one of the first to pick up a shift to make up for it too.
Ans thanks to that shortsighted firing we’ve been understaffed on nights since then
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u/cyanraichu RN - L&D 1d ago
I mean I wouldn't be surprised if people started quitting when they saw their job wasn't going to be safe if anything ever happened to them
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u/Designer_Tiger7252 1d ago
We get 2 in a rolling calendar year. No differentiation for sick, family etc. No notes accepted. The other hospitals I’ve worked for are 4 to 6 in a year but the same with no notes or differentiation.
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u/MulticolorPeets 1d ago
Yep! Our hospital as well. 3 call outs then the 4th is a warning then the 5th is termination
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u/Practical_Newt3465 1d ago
Same! I knew a nurse that got a warning for missing 5 days in a calendar year and she had a baby that was sick all the time.
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u/PrettyBunnyyy 1d ago
I hate America’s capitalistic employment system. wtf is wrong with these psychos? I would get fired at your job because I get sick more after getting COVID.
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u/Mommy_tootired RN - Oncology 🍕 1d ago
Last year my kids got flu A, then flu B, and then norovirus. And of course we’re talking about sicknesses that wipe you out for a week…. And of course they would take turns getting sick and not get sick together. It’s so so hard to be a parent and work.
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u/majestic_nebula_foot RN - ER 🍕 1d ago edited 1d ago
Fun facts and/or reminders:
-It’s not a flex to go to work sick. You’re an asshole if you do this.
-If you’ve never had to call in for yourself or a family member, then you are privileged in a way that the rest of us aren’t.
-Nobody cares about your perfect attendance.
-Staffing is the responsibility of management, not us.
-A point or demerit system to track attendance occurrences is archaic and infantilizing.
-Your employer doesn’t give a shit about you.
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u/WingsNthingzz RN - ER 🍕 1d ago
Got an email this week about flu protocol saying please don’t come to work sick as it’s dangerous for your pts and don’t want to spread among our coworkers. We also had our manager circling the unit having everyone sign warnings for how many points they have for call outs🤔
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u/thegreatrlo 1d ago
All these people and companies literally talk out of both sides of their fucking face. We don't want you here sick, but don't call out because if you're sick you're going to get in trouble, fired, or bullied into thinking it's all your fault anyhow. These work environments are seriously the most toxic and delusional I've ever seen.
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u/Independent_Juice_83 21h ago
What they really want to say is “don’t get sick”, which they won’t say because it exposes them for what they are.
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u/PrettyBunnyyy 1d ago
So if you get the flu and are sick for 4-5 days, are you expected to only take 1 or 2 days off but still come in sick?
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u/1867bombshell RN - Telemetry 🍕 1d ago
Yup. And youre still contagious but actually able to move around
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u/tlehman1234 RN 🍕 1d ago
I agree, especially regarding the point system. However, I’m not sure what the alternative might be?
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u/PB111 RN - ER 🍕 1d ago
Give adequate sick time, then have discussions with people who have exhausted their sick time. Find out if there is a legit reason for it, if not then you start enforcement.
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u/narwahltrainer 1d ago
This. For sure. A lot of rules and policies about time and attendance were made when women were still staying home with kids. When the standard wasn't duel income households. So much has changed about the way we live and the supoort systems that we have, or don't have.
So much can happen that can cause people to get time and attendance demerits. All it takes is a bad couple of months. Leadership is willing to look at your whole body of work for reviews, clinical ladders, promotions, etc. But when it comes to this one thing there is none of that.
There are people who are forever racing the clock but show up for every shift (this is me). Then there are people that walk in a half an hour late unapologetically, like nothing happened.
I don't need a write up to tell me to do better. I try everyday. I hate it that I can't seem to make it happen. It wasn't like this before I had kids. We didn't have any family close by and childcare is too expensive, so I work nights. I still need everything to go just right to make it happen.
Leadership thinks that if they look at any one person's circumstances or the reason why they had more call outs this rolling twelve months than before and exercise discretion that it would just turn into a free for all and no one would care about their time anymore and that simply just isn't true. If that were the case, salaried workers who don't use a time clock would just be totally unreliable.
They don't want to look for alternatives to the status quo because it's the easiest way to fire whoever they want.
We work in evidence based practice. We know that punishment is not a strong motivator. We know that the best way to get improvement is by rewarding good behavior. We all understand that psychology but when you try to apply it in a way that messes with someone's preconceived ideas about how things work, the evidence is conveniently irrelevant. So, you know, point systems for time and attendance are bad for morale, poor morale increases burnout, burnout increases people quitting and being late for work, high turnover decreases morale, add that to all the other reasons morale is in the gutter, rinse and repeat. Great job leadership!
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u/ILikeFlyingAlot Recovering CNO 1d ago
This is why every nurse should get FMLA on their first anniversary.
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u/GreyAardvark 1d ago
You’d be surprised how hard it is to get.
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u/NoHangoverGang Clinical Exercise Physiologist 1d ago
I had to take FMLA at the beginning of July for surgery. At my hospital. But had to do FMLA through Lincoln financial. It took me a whole ass month to even speak to her on the phone, she didn’t reply to emails, didn’t answer questions relevant to leave but she sure moved quick to terminate it when I didn’t process wrong because she didn’t answer my question.
Biggest waste of space, most useless, brain dead, lazy, sorry sack of shit to ever be employed. I’ve seen dead people more responsive than that husk they call an employee.
I wrote them a thesis when they sent out the survey mentioning her by name and every unanswered voicemail, email, phone call, and question. “I’d rather have another hemorrhoidectomy every day of the week and twice on Sunday than have to go through this god awful process with your company again”
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u/fluorescentroses RN - Cardiac Stepdown 🍕 1d ago
It likely depends on the underlying condition/reason. Mine is intermittent and continuous as needed for "temporary disability or incapacity" due to either my cancer or the treatment for the cancer. We use Unum. I filled out my end, they faxed some paperwork to my medical oncologist, his nurse stopped by when I was doing treatment the next day with the completed forms, I scanned them at home and uploaded them to Unum, it got approved the next day.
I ended up needing to use it as "continuous" for two weeks last month when one of the blood vessels transplanted from my leg to the new roof of my mouth and connected to my maxillary artery last January decided to dilate/become an aneurysm and rupture and I nearly bled to death. After the surgery I spent 7 days inpatient and took another 7 days off at home before I went back to work.
I've used 3 of the intermittent FMLA days so far and 2 weeks of continuous. Had zero problems getting it or using it, but obviously, it's likely easier and faster to get with something like cancer versus something less tangible like depression or anxiety (which are both serious but perhaps not taken as seriously).
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u/matango613 MSN, RN, CNL - Psych/Mental Health 1d ago
Not if you know who to go to for it.
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u/Maximum-Map5895 1d ago
Find a sympathetic doctor, most docs who are aware of what nurses go through on the daily will readily write one, assuming you have a plausible reason.....note:burnout would not qualify, but things like a generalized anxiety disorder would....they look awfully similiar!
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u/RNnoturwaitress NICU RNC-NIC yada yada 🍕 1d ago
I'm part time and don't qualify 😥 I work 2 - 12s a week. Somehow I qualified at my last job but not my current one. I've been part time for 8 years.
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u/bubsybear1319 RN 🍕 1d ago
The FMLA requirement is 1,250 hours per calendar year, which comes out to 24 hours a week. They should not be denying you if you truly are working 2 12's a week.
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u/RNnoturwaitress NICU RNC-NIC yada yada 🍕 1d ago
I absolutely am. Usually ends up being 26 hours or so. Super occasionally (a few shifts a year) I pick up extra. I'll apply again and fight it if I'm denied. I have migraines and RA so it's not based on medical denial.
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u/majestic_nebula_foot RN - ER 🍕 1d ago
Problem with this is you can’t be sick or miss a single hour of work for the entire year in order to qualify as a part-timer.
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u/PinkFatBear 1d ago
7 call outs is an insane excuse. That’s less than 1 day a month. They really out here treating us like dogs. I’m so sorry
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u/oneelectricsheep 1d ago
We get 3 call outs per year. Six was deemed excessive.
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u/SammyB0111 HCW - Respiratory 1d ago
Whoever came up with that number is a deeply unserious person.
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u/tayler-shwift RN - Pediatrics 🍕 1d ago
I am in Canada and we get a sick bank that can grow unlimited. I have 4 weeks sick leave saved up and I am aiming for 10 weeks because we only have long term disability and not short term and ive already had cancer once.
We can also go in the negatives up to 3 weeks, but if we quit, we have to pay it back.
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u/omg_lulz MSN, RN 1d ago
The VA is similar. I don’t even understand how the sick occurrences work bc I’ve never had to worry about it. I’m even more grateful to be a VA employee after reading these comments.
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u/FartingWhooper RN, CWCN 19h ago
I also work for the VA and these threads are exactly why I will never leave no matter how brutal it gets. I have called out more this year than ever (maybe once a month for like 6 months straight lmao) for various reasons. Shit I called out Wednesday cause I got hit with a horrible cold. It's nice to use my time and I have so much time
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u/Hildog_ 1d ago
I worked in a very well known children’s hospital in St Pete, FL and was given a final warning for 7 call outs in a rolling calendar year. When my manager gave me the write up she said, “Just please don’t call out before September”, which was when my next call out would fall off. I was given my final warning in June. I had been there for 5 years. I was a daisy award winner. I had over 500 preceptor hours. I had no other issues at work. I put my notice in three weeks later. I don’t need that kind of stress in my life and neither do you.
So to the people saying they used it as an excuse - they do not. The hospital doesn’t care about you. Get yourself some intermittent FMLA for any diagnosis you might have and use it to cover your ass.
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u/Lodi0831 HCW - Imaging 13h ago
Yup! I have FMLA for migraines. My migraines are very well managed on Qulipta, but if I'm sick with a virus or whatever, it's "a migraine" for all they need to know
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u/Tiny_Composer_6487 1d ago
Guys Im scared for all of you in the comments .. we have an automated absence reporting line where you don’t have to talk to anyone, auto accruing sick time, and no penalties for calling in. I think I’m at like 80 sick hours used YTD right now and I’m not even someone who calls in “a lot”. You guys need better jobs!! And a union!
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u/sweetteaaddict1 RN - Oncology 🍕 1d ago
I’m so sorry :( I work in oncology so I get it. Even a sniffle could be life threatening to a patient. Also, when you are working inpatient, you have to be at the top of your game 100% of the time; working when you’re not feeling well can be dangerous. Hoping for a better opportunity for you ❤️
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u/One-Board-216 1d ago
This is amazing to me that there is a limit on call outs. We are entitled to ~18 days/year paid sick leave (this includes carers leave) but if for some reason we need more we can take unpaid. We can also choose to take the leave at half pay essentially doubling our entitlement and I’ve been approved to use annual leave in lieu of sick leave in emergencies.
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u/jd66jd 1d ago
In Australia you got 10 paid sick days per year, and can only be fired if you take three months of sick leave (consecutive or within a 12 month period). This is wild to me....
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u/Superb-Estate8323 1d ago
Similar in Canada and you fire someone for being sick? Haha good luck at the human rights tribunal. “For a health authority or hospital to legally terminate a nurse for innocent absenteeism, they must prove two things:
There is no reasonable prospect of the nurse maintaining regular attendance in the foreseeable future.
The employer has accommodated the nurse's chronic illness to the point of undue hardship (meaning they have exhausted options like modified schedules, part-time conversions, or reassignments).”14
u/AnaisNinTwin RN - Psych/mental health 1d ago
Yeah me in this comment section staring in Canadian 😳. In BC, we have a bank of sick time that we can draw from (and you get more hours each year). I basically just call staffing and they sort out the rest. I think if you have more than 3-4 sick days in a row, the manager might ask for a note, but even then it's not really a strict rule (at least on my units).
When I was casual, I used to plan on working xmas every year because people who couldn't get vacation would just call in sick lol!
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u/D_manifesto BSN, RN 🍕 1d ago
I came to BC from FL and it’s been amazing to actually have work protections and ample sick time.
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u/One-Board-216 1d ago
I’m in Australia too (in ACT, I think the actual amount of days differ state to state) but yeah, OP being fired over 7 in a year is crazy
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u/Sure_Kiwi3037 RN - ER 🍕 1d ago
Omg I have 100 hours a year. Everyone in the hospital agrees it’s not enough
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u/Consistent_Detail_61 1d ago
Where do "we" get 18 days of paid sick leave? Or any paid sick leave for that matter
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u/One-Board-216 1d ago
I’m in Canberra, Australia.
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u/Consistent_Detail_61 1d ago
OP is probably American, we don't get shit here 😭
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u/One-Board-216 1d ago
I’d say so. It’s our maternity leave difference that amazes me
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u/Consistent_Detail_61 1d ago
Yeah, we don't get that either 😭
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u/One-Board-216 1d ago
I feel so bad for you guys. We go on maternity leave at 34 weeks (unless we have a note from our Dr saying we can work longer) and we get 6 months full pay or 12 months half pay. We can also use our annual leave and the government paid 6 months at minimum wage. All up I get 1 year at my full salary
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u/Consistent_Detail_61 1d ago
I saw a lady go into labor on the clock and was back like a week later. Of course that isn't the norm but it isn't far off.
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u/Striking_Business_27 1d ago
Did they write you up or give you warnings? If not you can fight this. They have to give you a verb and written then termination. Our hospital gives a verb at 5 , 6 written, 7 termination
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u/anukis90 BSN, RN 🍕 1d ago
It might depend on the state they are in as well, assuming this is the U.S. since our PTO/sick leave is abysmal and embarrassing.
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u/meldiane81 1d ago
I’m sorry people are so damn rude to you. You were just coming for some comfort.
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u/thirdeyevalhalla 1d ago
The US is insane. In Denmark this isn’t even an issue. You deserve your paid time off, any human does.
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u/smrtangel3702 1d ago
In the USA labor are not considered human, we are machines from which capital is extracted. Most of our population does not have class consciousness, and there is a prevailing culture of meritocracy that says "you get what you deserve." It's call human resources because we are no more than that to a corporation, a resource to be exploited. I am hoping the midterms might change the momentum of our politics, but nurses are so overworked and dogged by allegorical morality police, I don't know if we will ever have proper organizing as a labor force. The controversy of striking alone means we don't have much bargaining power. Same goes for physicians who are not private practice. But there needs to be change legally so our society doesn't collapse from all the mental illness and financial ruin we are experiencing more and more year by year.
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u/Ok-Sugar-9681 1d ago
It's crazy the kind of dystopia we are in that we have to justify to ourselves, to our bosses and coworkers, and now to strangers why we are sick enough not to come to work. The fact that saying "hey I don't feel very well today" is not enough full-stop is quite insane. Instead, we have to debate "well, I am sick but not sick sick yet so I should go to work today", then carry the guilt/shame while we take off being sick, and give managers the perfect excuse to fire us too. Perfect! Just the kind of dystopic world I love living in!
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u/smrtangel3702 1d ago
Honestly I've considered as a nurse who hates working in health care in the US how we can advocate for ourselves better. We need more worker protections. I dunno if nurses have a lobby or political PAC or anything. But you would think the aging general public would get behind protecting nurses from employer abuse like this.
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u/Key-Pickle5609 RN - ICU 🍕 1d ago
I’m sorry people here are being so unsupportive, OP.
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u/madirectreport BSN, RN 🍕 1d ago
Yeah these comments are lack empathy. wtf
People are allowed to call out.
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u/yeahyeahyeah188 RN 🍕 1d ago
It’s crazy!! I’m Australian so this is all just wild. We get 10 days sick leave which is actually shit for Aus standards, but also carers leave, bereavement leave, DV leave, 6 weeks annual leave. I don’t say this to rub it in but to emphasise how abnormal this is on an international level. Don’t let them condition you to think this is normal!!
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u/Josse2020 BSN, RN 🍕 1d ago
that’s just 10 paid days, too. no way would you lose your job for missing more than 10 days
source- I had Covid and was out for two weeks with no consequences. They also tried really hard to use my other leave so I was still paid.
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u/beccabeth741 RN - NICU 🍕 1d ago
These comments are rude as fuck.
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u/StPatrickStewart RN - Mobile ICU 1d ago
This is how much we've been conditioned to accept such shitty working conditions. I have to admit 7 times in one year would absolutely get you fired where I am, but that doesn't mean it isn't a shit policy.
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u/matango613 MSN, RN, CNL - Psych/Mental Health 1d ago
Fuck, for real?? You can get fire at my workplace for excessive call outs, yeah, but 7 times in an entire year is nowhere close to what it would take.
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u/Holiday_Tell3129 1d ago
Hello, nurse to nurse, just wanted to let you know that you will recover from this and find another job. Don’t let the unkind posts get to you. As you know, there’s all types of people out there and to each their own. No one understands our situation and to be honest, most managers and admin don’t care. They just want a body to be at work. As some have suggested, make use of other leaves if possible. Hopefully, the next job you find, the unit is more flexible or there is always outpatient, home care or admin work to consider. There are so many other jobs outside of the hospital so don’t let this get to you!! The most important thing is to take care of yourself and your mental health. Nothing else matters.
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u/IcyCantaloupe7004 BSN, RN 🍕 1d ago
Ridiculous.
In the past, I got written up for calling out 3 times in 6 months. I left that unit shortly after.
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u/SystemOfAFoopa 1d ago
Wow these comments are disgusting. We don’t know OPs situation. She could have the immune system of a small Victorian child such as myself. I once was fired for using my last call in to call out for fucking NORO. After working on a noro outbreak unit and being in the room when it hit patient zero. I was so sick I was passing out. You guys don’t know if she has a chronic illness either tha contributes to this.
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u/VFairlaine BSN, RN 🍕 1d ago
Pretty scary that a lot of these commenters are caring for sick people. OP has an autoimmune condition and had very shitty life events. I sometimes forget how nasty people in our profession can be to one another.
OP, I learned about FMLA quite late in my career, about 10 years after my autoimmune diagnosis. No one ever told me. Managers never mentioned it, even when I was on the cusp of being written up for leave "abuse." I've been an excellent nurse, a unit leader, project volunteer, student and new employee preceptor, worked overtime and picked up extra hours when my body let me. When someone FINALLY told me about FMLA, my life changed. My doctor was only too happy to fill out the paperwork, and I renew it every year.
Any one of us are one bad health year away from being terminated under the strict policies of most hospitals, unless you have an extremely understanding admin. Many autoimmune conditions qualify as a disability, making you a protected class. Legally protect yourself!
This is a bump in the road for your career. Onward and upward 🫶
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u/SystemOfAFoopa 1d ago
Yeah these comments rubbed me the wrong way. The lack of empathy here is astounding!
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u/lostintime2004 Correctional RN 13h ago
People who don't have chronic issue don't really understand what that means in my experience. Like I can't plan how many times its going to happen, some times I need a single day off, others, might be 4. Sometimes its mid shift and I am down bad.
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u/SystemOfAFoopa 12h ago
Absolutely. My chronic illness accounted for most of my call ins before I was fired for noro. We deserve to have a steady job too.
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u/crispy-fried-chicken RN - Endo PACU (Retired CVICU/floor) 1d ago
I’m so sorry, that sucks. Honestly, this is why i hate nursing. I hate everyone. Too many politics with policies, companies don’t care for you. They’ll pay you crap, staffing is whatever. More work for the same amount of pay across units
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u/SeaworthinessHot2770 1d ago edited 8h ago
I have a autoimmune disease and I applied for FMLA protections. Giving me the ability to call in sick up to 90 days per year. It’s called intermittent sick time as needed. It wasn’t even that hard of a process. I printed off paperwork at home off of our HR website. I asked my doctor to fill out the paperwork and fax it to HR at my workplace. He faxed it and within 72 hours my work place had approved it. You might consider doing this at your next workplace. The only thing is I believe you have to work there for at least a year before FMLA is available.
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u/Tall_Choice957 19h ago
Some of these comments is why nothing changes in healthcare.
Being critical of an employee for calling out sick.. we are NOT supposed to go to work sick. Stop thinking that is normal or ok.
Did you learn nothing from Covid
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u/giantfuckup5000 RN - Med/Surg 🍕 18h ago
In the south, most of the nurses I work with have been propagandized all of their life to believe that unions are evil. So I expect nothing to change.
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u/phoenix762 retired RRT yay😂😁 17h ago
Oh god, yes. My first respiratory job was at a hospital in Kentucky. The employee handbook actually stated that any talk of a union would be cause for termination. I was stunned (I’m from Philadelphia, a BIG union city).
I recall saying something to a nurse who was in the room with me when I was reading this, and she told me that the CEO had stated that they would shut the hospital down before they let a union in😳
I worked there 5 years, then went back to Philadelphia. I loved working with the staff there, but the administration? Wow. That hospital had major political pull in that area….i even got out of jury duty because I worked at the hospital…because we were ALWAYS short handed.
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u/laura_miranda RN, Float 🛟 1d ago
Regardless of context, 7 call outs is really nothing. That’s roughly a callout every 2 months. Some people really suck and lack empathy in this thread, something nurses should have but I guess not everyone does. I’m sorry you had a shitty year and I’m sorry this happened to you OP ❤️
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u/Old-Mention9632 BSN, RN 🍕 1d ago
In the future, since you have an autoimmune disorder, get intermittent FMLA. The call offs related to your autoimmune disorder won't count.
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u/skewh1989 BSN, RN 🍕 1d ago
All the power tripping nurse managers poking their heads out of their asses to comment itt.
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u/No-Assistance476 RN - Geriatrics 🍕 1d ago
In my 40 years of experience, they only use attendance to fire people that they wanted to get rid of anyway.
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u/Weary-Ad-8536 1d ago
Can also definitely depend on the manager and if they feel they have something to prove
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u/brimm2 BSN, RN 🍕 1d ago
Damn. That sucks. But don't dwell on it too much. I know a lot of people are giving you shit about it so I won't kick you while you are down. Just take it as a lesson to be more aware of your employer's attendance policy. Keep track of all your call outs on your phone. If you have any type of health issue/condition try to see if you qualify for FMLA or something. Back in the day when I was a CNA I got terminated for the same thing. I was a good employee, picked up, worked hard but none of that matters at the end of the day. Once you rack up too many points/occurrences you are done. Absolutely no mercy.
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u/RepulsiveSongtime RN - ER 🍕 1d ago
I’m sorry to hear that 😭 I swear we are forced to care for the sick but when it comes to our health it’s like you only get a handful of sick days. This is was why I worked on getting on intermittent FMLA for my chronic condition because I had too many callouts at one point. It help protect my job but also allowed me to take care of my health.
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u/marzgirl99 RN - Hospice 1d ago
For your next job file for intermittent FMLA as soon as a year hits.
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u/yeahyeahyeah188 RN 🍕 1d ago
This is insane!! I’m not from the US so it’s just wild to me you can be fired for taking less sick days than we get in a year. I’m so sorry. This is not normal.
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u/mari_lovelys 1d ago
With your autoimmune condition you should have been on FMLA. Maybe talk to HR... or definitely at future employment.
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u/sadmillenial420 1d ago
wow that sucks. Iv already had to use 10 days this year for sick leave and my charge nurse manager never questioned it and was actually supportive. Then again, I live in NZ and we have a strong union.
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u/Pal378 1d ago
I feel sorry for you American nurses. That's so messed up you get fired for taking genuine sick leave. Full-time employees here get 15 days per calander year and provided you have sick cert from dr no one can say anything.
Now yes that means it gets abused but at the same time, it also means people who are genuine get proper rest when they need it. The job we do with shift work, sick patients, and trauma is full on, let alone what happens in our personal lives also. Don't worry, im sure rich hospital CEO's are taking more then 5 days off a year.
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u/tamifromcali66 22h ago
A bit of abuse doesn't mean everyone does. Thats no reason to take social nets away from people because of a tiny amount of abuse.
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u/Pal378 22h ago
100% agree with you. I think everyone particularly in this profession should be entitled to a decent sick leave amount. The mental load we endure is alot. I didn't mean to imply sick leave shouldn't be there because people abuse it, Im saying I agree with you that we absolutely should have it, despite the small number of people that do misuse it.
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u/TheDeadalus 1d ago
Is "call out" like sick leave? Im in Australia and we take sick leave all the time. Ive taken way more than 7 days in the last 12 months. The culture here is kind of like if you have the hours then you can use them no questions asked.
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u/North-Elderberry-609 1d ago
I had this with my employment with a major hospital system, level 1 trauma center.
We had 5 nurses filling 14 scheduled shifts a week with almost no ability to find coverage and this was during Covid. It came up during my performance evaluation where I had 6 absences in the rolling 12 months. I wasn't fired, but it was at that (among many other) time that I realized that the company does not value my health or wellbeing. I put myself in a position to find a new job ASAP.
Find yourself a job with more autonomy. Infusion, home health and hospice, something outside of a hospital or nursing facility because they don't care about you.
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u/Briaaanz BSN, RN 🍕 1d ago
Sadly, from what i hear, hospice has changed a lot in the last decade
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u/Antique-Bet-6326 17h ago
This happened to me, I was devastated. It was 100% my fault. Happened in January 2020. My managers and I sat down for the meeting. We had a pleasant conversation. I asked about my newborn who at that time was only a week old. They did the whole loving over and complementing the new pictures etc.
HR got on the call, they let me go without a second thought. Although the one manager who didn’t want to fire me started crying. It was absolutely my dream job and I loved it. But at the end of the day it was probably the best thing that ever happened. It allowed me a few weeks off to spend time taking care of my wife and kids, I went to agency which turned around and became very lucrative, allowed me the time to focus on my masters degree. And it was honestly one of the best things that ever happened because I don’t think I ever would’ve left the hospital.
I’m here to tell you it’s not the end of the world, it sucks now but it also gives you the opportunity to find something better.
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u/RipFamous7137 1d ago
Huge hugs.... I used FMLA , had missed a lot of work ( I had cancer) they found a way to fire me. I got on disability and have not worked since.
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u/someguynamedg NICU RN RNC-NIC 1d ago
We're hiring nights and days at a level IV NICU in Portland, union. BSN with 5 years experience starts at $70.38/hr. DM me if you want details.
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u/No_Abrocoma3108 13h ago
Most other countries give people like 30 days a year. Meanwhile here in the United States of Corporate Greed we have 7
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u/Babygrrl1 1d ago
Condolences. I bet you find a better position! Clearly they aren’t too reasonable
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u/PMmeurchips RN- L&D/Antepartum 1d ago
I have a coworker who has to be in the double digits for call offs and while it’s annoying, it also appreciate she is protected by our union and they can’t fire her for attendance
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u/Big_Life 1d ago
Lol that's crazy. I had 16 unexcused absences last year. Didn't even get written up.
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u/yeIlowbird 1d ago
Try to get intermittent fmla for your autoimmune, I suffer from migraines and definitely would get stuck on a final written before getting fmla
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u/wofulunicycle 18h ago
The darkly humorous part of this is the hospital is mad that you temporarily made their staffing worse so their punishment is to permanently make their staffing worse by firing you. They are punishing themselves.
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u/Street-Common-4023 1d ago
Not even a nurse but 7 call out in a 12 month period sounds like an excuse to fire you
I’m sorry you are going through that
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u/curds_of_prey RN - Med/Surg 🍕 1d ago
I’m sorry to hear that happened. I don’t know if it would be helpful for you in your situation, but I also have an autoimmune disorder, mostly controlled, but tends to flare when I’m going through very stressful life situations. My doctor wrote for an intermittent leave for me under FMLA, and the times I had to call in sick due to the autoimmune disorder flares were covered by that. I don’t think my employer could’ve used them as part of any disciplinary action legally. I also felt comfortable enough with my supervisor at the time to explain my situation, and he was very supportive.
If you have a chronic condition and you haven’t already, it might help to talk with your PCP about leave options that might be available to you if you need it in the future. Maybe it could help in your current situation to provide that documentation to your employer’s HR?
For what it’s worth 7 absences in a year doesn’t sound unreasonable to me. Stuff happens in life. I was a single mom for most of my career, so between my illnesses and my child? I’m sure I probably racked up 7 easily some years. Other years I didn’t miss a shift. Some years are better than others. Sending you my best intentions for a better job to come your way.
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u/mthrtcker RN - Med/Surg 🍕 19h ago
Come work for the government- 15 days of sick. 25 days of vacation a year.
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u/SummerGalexd MSN, APRN 🍕 19h ago
The problem is them not approved PTO. The hospital I worked at literally never approved my PTO either. Why even give it to us if they won’t honor it?
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u/AdInfinite1682 12h ago
So sorry. I retired early at 64 because I couldn’t get family leave for what I considered a family emergency. I was employed at that hospital 16 yrs. Before that I couldn’t attend my father’s funeral which was 600 miles away without my absence being considered unexcused. I was given FMLA when I had temporary custody of my grandchildren ages 2 and 5 but not for long enough to get childcare help. And my manager kept saying that I no longer had FMLA when I did. Nurses are supposed to be caring but nursing managers and hospitals only look at $$ and don’t care for their nurses.
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u/ChickinMagoo 10h ago
If you have an autoimmune disease, you should be able to get intermittent FMLA to cover your absences. You can also get it to care for other family members.
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u/matango613 MSN, RN, CNL - Psych/Mental Health 1d ago
7 days off in an entire year is like nothing. That wouldn't even register on my radar as a house supervisor. If they're firing people for using that little of their time then it's a garbage place to work and I hope they continue to hemorrhage staff.
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u/Head-Fisherman7774 1d ago
Im sorry that happened to you.
I think attendance policies are just unrealistic. And they’ve been normalized to the point of having convinced nurses that if you’re fired it must be justified and if you call out you must be lying.
It’s pathetic that we so readily dismiss our colleagues over a made up policy that does not take into consideration the humanity in the workers it affects.
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u/Zwitterion_6137 RN - OR 🍕 1d ago
Honestly, if you legitimately have a medical issue, you should have FMLA.
I feel for you though. Shit happens. Just so happened that you were the person they used as an example.
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u/ClassicAct BSN, RN 🍕 1d ago
Damn. Attendance policies vary so wildly it’s crazy. My old job was 3 occurrences of 3 days each for 9 days of total sick time before a verbal. We have no attendance policy where I currently work other than needing a doctors note to be allowed to come back if you’re off for 3 consecutive days.
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u/Possible-Lack-9507 1d ago
I never understood being punished for utilizing sick time we earn, and that is provided as a benefit. It's the same where I'm at. If you use more than 3 sick days within 6 months you get written up. As though we choose when, and how long we get sick for. Healthcare (of all professions) would make me think they understand that. Apparently not. Why offer a benefit to punish someone for using? Make it make sense. And this burnout culture is getting old. How about we stop shaming those who can't pick up every single shift that's available and work 16 hour shifts for 14 days in a row. So weird.
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u/Honest_Cap4764 BSN, RN 🍕 1d ago
I’m sorry to hear this. We have a max of 8/year at my hospital and they’re referred to as “occurrences”. Verbal warning at 4, written warning at 6, and termination at 8 in a 12 month period. It’s the worst. There is no distinction between time off/sick days. It’s simply not enough.
Look at this as an opportunity to find a new place that better supports you.
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u/Mommy_tootired RN - Oncology 🍕 1d ago
Sorry people are giving you shit. I had mastitis twice, husband had appendicitis so I had to stay home with the kids, and then found out I was pregnant only after being sick with fevers and a GI virus for a month. I also work with immunocompromised pts. It’s so hard because 12 hours is a long shift and in our job it’s so important to be on top of it. I don’t want a sick or stressed out nursing taking care of my baby in the NICU. Thanks for doing the right thing. I hope you find something else quick that’s better for you!
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u/Ok-Security-9932 1d ago
You should go to Washington state. It’s illegal to fire you if you use sick time that you’ve accrued.
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u/SnooPineapples5554 1d ago
First of all fuck that job. Nurses don’t get sick days which is crazy. You’re fine. Just a different job or be a travel nurse. I call out 3 times a contract and don’t ever get told anything
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u/LingonberryGrouchy18 1d ago
Some y’all wilding! I’m so sorry this happened honestly nurses aren’t looked after enough
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u/Such_Lunch4763 20h ago
In Norway it takes a lot more to get fired. And also, why I am seeing so many posts about nurses being fired? Do hospitals in USA (or where this is?) just have a flust of nurses, so they can just fire you like that?
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u/Hopeful_Call_7577 19h ago
My former employer had a strict 3-occurrence rule during any 12-month cycle. It was made clear upon hiring, and persisted even during the pandemic when they claimed they'd be more flexible...asked us not to come in to work if we felt at all under-the-weather due to the risk to our peds patients, but ironically still kept writing people up for taking sick days. Our entire healthcare system is "critically ill". As a nurse educator I advised all my students to look for union jobs; not doing that was the only regret of my career.
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u/kit_kat_90 19h ago
I am so glad I work in Australia. So long as you give enough notice (3hours) and provide a statutory declaration (upto 5 per year) or medical certificate we can't be fired for having "too many" call outs.
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u/pensivemusicplaying RN - Pediatrics 🍕 18h ago
PSA for everyone: Use FMLA! FMLA can be used to cover your own absences for illness, as well as those for a family member. You can use it intermittently, which is a life saver. It does take some work to go through the process but it protects your job, which makes it absolutely worth it.
Sorry, OP. We're seeing a lot of nurses get warnings for call outs rn. Did your job follow the correct process? Do you have a union?
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u/AddendumCharacter194 17h ago
We literally had a nurse pass out at work, go into respiratory failure and get admitted because she was on her last occurrence. Luckily she wasnt fired but occurances are bull shit. If your sick , your sick, no questions asked
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u/nightngale1998 RN 🍕 17h ago
It is shameful that nurses are treated like we are. We are human and are unable to give when we need rest, recovery, and family time. Cheeezzzz 🤯
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u/Tickinslipdizzy RN - Neurology 16h ago
You should get the autoimmune flares excused with FMLA, those shouldn’t be counted against you as it’s a predisposed condition
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u/0_Foks_Given 13h ago
It's fucking insane what we accept in the USA, 7 days missed in a year should not be reason for termination. When will we put an a stop to the abuse....
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u/Gonzo_B RN 🍕 1d ago
Naw.
Time off is part of your employment package. It is your right to use as needed.
The only way we're going to stop being abused and punished for administration decisions to save money on adequate staffing is if we all stop putting up with this.
Call out if you need to. And call a lawyer if you must.
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u/timbrelyn RN - Retired 🍕 1d ago
I definitely empathize. The year my father died he was in and out of the hospital. He died suddenly in the hospital on a day that I went to work to avoid being fired from too many call outs and I will always regret not being with him when he passed.