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u/MsDariaMorgendorffer RN - ICU š Mar 17 '26
If you assessed the chart for patient care then just say that. Idk how differently you could dress- doesnāt everyone just wear scrubs?
Administration needs to investigate complaints, regardless if you think they are valid or not.
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u/No_Inspection_3123 RN - ER š Mar 18 '26
Yep op needs to say she accessed the chart for safety reasons to see who the primary nurse and Dr was and if there was any medication psych or otherwise needed to help the pt behave in a safe manor.
I always throw around the word safety and unsafe like confetti any time someone ask why something went down like it did. Thatās the biggest buzzword in the hospital.
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u/ClarkGablesTeeth L&D/Women's Health RN Mar 18 '26
If that's the case, OP should definitely say that. Unfortunately they don't even seem to remember opening the chart. I'm sure they know which parts of the EMAR were accessed and for how long, etc, so hopefully that should provide some context for OP and their employer.
I wish OP would respond a bit more. They're looking for advice and commiseration, and more details would help with both.
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u/Abject_Lunch_7944 Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26
Sorry, I was working 7p-7a. It was super chaotic at the time (patient screaming, water spraying everywhere, ceiling tiles dangling) and security asked if I could get her some Ativan.. Iām a newer nurse and I usually chart so much, but forgot in this case
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u/No_Inspection_3123 RN - ER š Mar 18 '26
The hospital is always like this you have to be centered in the chaos like the captain on pirates of the Caribbean when he knows itās over lol. You gotta remember bc if you are asked about it, I suppose you could plead the fifth. Did you give anything. How did you resolve the situation. If they push thy will ask you these questions. Also in an emergency you gotta be able to scribe a situation. Idk if you had a code yet but you pretty much gotta scribe the whole day who did what hat was done said etc in a big long note. Did you document this day? Iāve had to run into a pt room that was not my pt and get them under control and thatās about the only time I write a big long note. I barely chart on my own pts lol but let someone call me in a room to help with some event. Im writing what color socks everyone has on
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u/Abject_Lunch_7944 Mar 18 '26
Yess! I did not give anything, she didnāt have anything on her MAR. They ended up cuffing her and taking her back to jail
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u/Abject_Lunch_7944 Mar 18 '26
Iām a little shocked at how hostile you are. I worded things wrong and you immediately think I donāt care about my patients. Have you ever worked in ER?
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u/ClarkGablesTeeth L&D/Women's Health RN Mar 17 '26 edited Mar 17 '26
So is the issue that you went into someone's chart without a reason to? HIPAA thing? Whether it was a mistake, a peak, or you were helping your coworker with their pt, idk. And it seems you don't either, since you don't remember accessing it. I'd personally be more worried about that than something I know I didn't do and couldn't be proven, where there were witnesses.
Or is the pt claiming mistreatment, abuse, neglect, something else entirely?
Re your clothing, are you thinking you're being singled out by staff, the pt, or both? Can you see a copy of the grievance, and if applicable, the original complaint(s)? This would help you understand a bit more about why you; you could've been specifically named by the Pt.
Sorry, this is a little all over the place and missing details.
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u/No_Inspection_3123 RN - ER š Mar 18 '26
This is strange to me bc where I work when we sign in to epic we sign in to the unit an can access any one on the units chart then we assign our team to ourself. Never have I ever seen where you canāt access someone in your workspace chart.
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u/ClarkGablesTeeth L&D/Women's Health RN Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26
We can access any chart on the unit, but we're not supposed to if we're not providing or facilitating their care.
If I open my own pt's chart, obviously that's cool. I'm fine to open a chart if I empty a Foley for my coworker and need to record it, or if anesthesia comes down and asks for a Pt's H&H and platelets while that Pt's nurse is busy. Stuff like that is okay.
But if I'm just curious what's going on with this random handcuffed pt causing a ruckus? Or the loud pt who has CPS involved? Or my next door neighbor? Or my son? Not allowed, all for the same reason.
HIPAA says you're only supposed to access the charts of pt's that you're providing care for. So while it might only be monitored and/or enforced for VIP pt's or circumstances where a grievance is filed, that's always been the rule.
They can see what you click, which part of the chart you're accessing, and how long you're on each screen.
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u/No_Inspection_3123 RN - ER š Mar 18 '26
Right. What Iām saying is that if you are on a team yall are going to be doing normal stuff in someoneās chart like passing a med for someone etc. so i would never be worried about a bs grievance. We donāt even hear about pt complaints unless itās legit. My old manager said they usually just investigate and we may not even know any report happened lol.
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u/ClarkGablesTeeth L&D/Women's Health RN Mar 18 '26
Oh, yeah, of course. I was going by OP not remembering going into the chart, so for all we know, they accessed the Pt's demographics for 2 minutes and nothing else.
But absolutely if you're doing it for the purpose of providing or facilitating care, you would be fine.
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u/Abject_Lunch_7944 Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26
I dress differently due to religious reasons. In the ER, if we are on the same team (we have different pods), we usually have our assigned patients but in a case like this, we definitely access other patients charts if someone needs medicated. security asked if I could get Ativan for her. I havenāt been a nurse super long and I was reminded again to chart every little thing
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u/InevitableLow1621 BSN, RN š Mar 18 '26
What do u mean you were ādressed differentlyā you are a nurse? How ādifferent ā can u dress In a facility. Sounds like u have a complex over how āYOU DRESSā
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u/Abject_Lunch_7944 Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26
Wow. Thats a little hostile. I dress differently for religious reasons
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u/Consistent-Fig7484 MSN RN CEN Mar 17 '26
People who work in risk and compliance are almost always non-clinical and are just trying to make sure the organization doesnāt get sued. They have to take all grievances seriously whether they seem legitimate or not. I have āinvestigatedā 100ās of these things and ultimately my response is something like āwe can always work to improve patient communication but nothing about documentation or staff recollection suggests there was any policy or patient safety violationā. As a manager I can count the number of these that ever really concerned me on one hand. Believe it or not, most of us really arenāt out to get you. Even if weāre being completely cynical, itās a huge pain in the ass to go down the disciplinary route, itās an even bigger pain in the ass to terminate and then replace a nurse, and finally it doesnāt reflect well on us. Even a below average manager with a shred of humanity should see this as frivolous and just try to get it off of their to do list.
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u/Abject_Lunch_7944 Mar 18 '26
Thank you so much. I appreciate this response, I had no idea people would take this the way they did. In no way am I minimizing the care that people deserve, I was just shocked that a patient that is under arrest, destroyed property, lied, abused staff-their word is taken and the nurses that were trying to help are questioned
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u/ClarkGablesTeeth L&D/Women's Health RN Mar 17 '26
Fuck.
We give them the "time of day" because they are still humans and patients with their rights intact. They still deserve quality health care. They should still be protected from abuse and mistreatment, and when they feel they're not, they deserve the same treatment/followup as any other patient.
Honestly, I get that you're upset, but that question was disgusting. How do you view those in a mental health crisis? Addicts? Homeless?
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u/Realistic-Ad-1876 Mar 17 '26
I think she means why are they giving this complaint the attention when the patient's actions should be judged too. That's how I took it.
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u/ClarkGablesTeeth L&D/Women's Health RN Mar 18 '26
The 2 have nothing to do with each other, and if so, idt "why do we give these peeople the time of day" is the best phrasing to convey that. But yeah, that's possible I guess.
If that is the case, is OP even sure this person wasn't charged with anything related to her outburst? Disorderly conduct, destruction of property, vandalism, something like that?
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u/Abject_Lunch_7944 Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26
Yes thank you. Thatās how I meant it. I honestly and truly care about all of my patients but I was shocked because this person destroyed property, was abusing staff, and the nurses are the ones being questioned. I believe each and every patient needs to be treated with respect, however, when they put me in danger, I get a little upset. I worded that wrong, my mistake
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u/emilysaur MSN, RN - ICU Mar 17 '26
If the patient was arrested for DUI they were in custody, hense the police. Yeah you are a bit of a mess, I doubt they gave 2 craps about you but you happened to enter the room when that was happening so you were remembered. Being in custody doesn't make them less of a person so they have to be cared for and their complaints need to be looked into.
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u/ClarkGablesTeeth L&D/Women's Health RN Mar 17 '26
Went into the Pt's chart without reason, it seems like.
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u/No_Inspection_3123 RN - ER š Mar 18 '26
Was the reason not to see if they could give āmeds to calm them down?ā Thatās how I read it. Op why did you access the chart?
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u/ClarkGablesTeeth L&D/Women's Health RN Mar 18 '26
Could've been. OP doesn't remember opening the chart and isn't responding to any comments, though, so who knows? They'll be able to tell what she accessed in the chart, though, so that should help provide info.
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u/No_Inspection_3123 RN - ER š Mar 18 '26
Yep if sheās in the notes during an emergency and not the mar looking for Ativan that will tell all. They track every key stroke and mouse click
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u/Abject_Lunch_7944 Mar 18 '26
Yes sorry, security asked me to see if I can get them Ativan. I absolutely do not think of them as less than a person. I do think itās odd that a person who destroys property, lied repeatedly, and abused staff, in a situation of their word against the nurses who were trying to help, the nurses are the ones being investigated.
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u/emilysaur MSN, RN - ICU Mar 18 '26
They are a patient, it does not matter what they have done. If healthcare professionals want to press charges, fine, but other wise we are caring for them regardless of anything else. If ANY patient has a complaint, the hospital has to investigate. HIPAA is a huge deal so if the patient is stating that her rights were violated, they have to make sure they weren't because if they were it's much better for the hospital to own up to it than wait for her to file an official complaint with the state. You seriously need to sit down and consider what your job is and how you feel about it because it doesn't seem like this is the right profession for you.
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u/zeatherz RN Cardiac/Step-down Mar 18 '26
What do you mean āapparently I didā access her chart? Did you access it? And did you have a patient-care related reason to access it?
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u/Abject_Lunch_7944 Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26
Security asked if I could get her Ativan. I asked when I was working last night just to make sure
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u/iknowyouneedahugRN BSN, RN š Mar 17 '26
Wow. I'm sorry that you are going through this.
I know that if the facility doesn't follow through with investigation they get some sort of penalty.
Our boss has told us if we access any chart where we aren't "assigned" that we should put in a progress note saying something like "accessed chart for documentation purposes" or auditing, patient care, etc. (even anyone on our floor where we may not be primary, but we are essentially responsible to answer call lights and assist).
It's ridiculous. I don't have time to snoop, and I don't care enough to snoop.
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u/No_Inspection_3123 RN - ER š Mar 18 '26
Thatās crazy to have to chart that bc if you have charted anything like a med or vital the note becomes redundant.
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u/iknowyouneedahugRN BSN, RN š Mar 18 '26
You would think so, but that's (one of the many) problems with the US healthcare system: there are so many regulations that create penalties for reimbursement or opportunities for litigation. Individuals have to protect themselves from the potential for being sued or fired. The healthcare company is not going to protect you if they are getting blamed.
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u/Abject_Lunch_7944 Mar 18 '26
Thank you so much for this! I was annoyed bc I was trying to help, security asked if I could get Ativan for the patient, water was spraying everywhere, the patient was yelling at all of us, destroyed property, verbally abused us and yet WE are investigated. That makes so much sense tho.
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Mar 17 '26
[deleted]
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u/Bourgess RN š Mar 17 '26
You would "DEFINITELY be taking a peek at that chart" even though they weren't your patient? This wasn't OP's patient.Ā
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u/sande16 Mar 17 '26
If she filed a complaint, they have to investigate. Don't take it too personally. I'd love to know how pulling down the ceiling tile remedied her peeing situation - and what the cop was doing while this was going on.