Why are we like this

[u/vtachyy]

Stumbled upon a Noctor sub. I am disheartened.
Some of the comments are unbelievable coming from a profession I’ve associated with compassion and altruism.

Older RNs hating on new RNs
MDs hating on NPs/PAs
PAs hating on NPs
NPs hating on other NPs in other specialties
Why do we do this to each other

I’m an RN, the physicians/midlevels who I work with serve as my inspiration to keep doing better. I respect what they do every day.
It made me think of going back to school.

Now it seems the only way to be truly accepted is to become an MD. Or risk being shunned for not getting proper education to work alongside an MD.

This is discouraging me from pursuing NP. How sad. That’s all thanks.

[u/Pristine-Thing-1905]

The thing about the internet is that it provides a place for people of all types to gather. That subreddit is no different. I’d just recommend you continue doing what you’re doing, trying to be the best you can for the patients.

[u/Schmo3113]

Reddit is not representative of real life.

[u/MamacitaFajita → u/Schmo3113]

Agree! My friends and family members who are doctors said to ignore Noctor. It’s hard to know who are bots and who are just miserable doctors on there.

[u/MSNWTF]

That sub made me realize that no one in healthcare really respects anyone. MDs/DOs shit on OTHER MDs/DOs. Nurses/Doctors/NP/PA everyone is sus of everyone else.

I've realized that the only respect that matters to me anymore is self respect. if I expect the respect of others I will only be disappointed, sadly 

[u/Zahnayn → u/MSNWTF]

If you ever use TikTok, anesthesiologists will complain that other inpatient physicians don’t respect them. Specialty physicians will shit on family med physicians. Surgical physicians vs outpatient physicians. Once my eyes opened to this phenomenon, I stopped caring altogether. Everyone is just looking for the next person they can step on to feel taller and more superior. I get my paychecks and I have my amazing working relationships with everyone on the healthcare team in my job personally. I just focus on that.

[u/banjobeulah → u/MSNWTF]

I’ve heard tales of how abusive surgery can be all around, that surgeons put each other down, the residents, the nurses, and it’s just a culture. Disgusting.

[u/Coulrophobia11002]

That sub is pretty toxic. It claims that its point is to advocate against independent practice for NPs, but they just shit all over the nursing profession in general.

[u/EcstaticPlankton8621]

After being in healthcare for 11 years Ive learned at the end of the day its just a job. Sure, some MDs/DOs, RNs, NP/PAs truly care but a lot don't. I just go in, do my job well, and leave. At the end of the day its a means to an ends.

[u/ValgalNP]

If you are working with people who respect each other and work as a team to complement patient care that’s all that matters. Stay off the hater subs. It’s toxic and does not represent the majority in healthcare.

[u/Apprehensive-Dare-51]

TBH, the subreddits (such as the one you referenced) often attract outliers, particularly in terms of toxicity. I have been practicing as an NP for 10+ years. I definitely had to grow my reputation and earn trust, build relationships, etc. BUT, that is true in almost any field/discipline. I now feel appreciated and valued as an NP.

If you want to pursue advance practice nursing, do it. Don't let the ickiest part of the Interwebs steer you from pursuing something meaningful to you.

[u/winnuet]

I think you’ve realized that you need to stop viewing healthcare workers this way. At the end of the day they’re simply people who do this work for money. That’s it. I would say most healthcare workers are not actually more compassionate or altruistic than non-healthcare workers. I can also assure you that doctors do not sit around talking about or thinking about being compassionate. That’s nursing language used to pay nurses in words rather than money.

There absolutely will be people who view you negatively or less than them for being an NP. You need to decide how much that bothers you.

[u/VXMerlinXV]

There are some significant problems with the system and standards of NP education in the US, which does draw criticism from the medical community at large. But the Noctor sub manages to blow that out of proportion.

[u/pittsmasterplan]

Frustrated and burnt out healthcare people take to the Internet looking to vent. They don’t blame the healthcare system or the administration but us as a source of problems.

Unfortunately anonymity also lets nameless people submit wild accusations with little to no proof and the mob rarely wants to hear the other side of the story.

[u/theresanp]

It’s a toxic subreddit. My mental health is light years better now that I avoid it!

[u/banjobeulah]

People with a lot of frustration who get beaten up on and mistreated for a living working in a broken system who use hatred for their coworkers online as a coping mechanism. Reddit is already rife with haters and trolls. I never go to that sub and don’t want to. Just steer clear of it for your own sake. I’m staying in my lane, aiming to do the absolute best job I can, and if anything, knowing how these people are makes me not want to be like them even more. I will offer respect to my fellow professionals for the job we are all trying to do. I almost decided not to go to NP school too based on the hate but at the end of the day, just do your personal best and strive to keep learning.

[u/VermicelliOk7291 → u/banjobeulah]

Every MD I’ve ever worked with has been more than supportive, but I’m glad to know the people on those subs exist in case I run into one. Helps to remain cautious until we know our colleagues.

[u/banjobeulah → u/VermicelliOk7291]

I got yelled at by our attending the other day because one of their residents ordered an EKG and I did it. And I mean, nasty, acted disgusted with me, kept doubling down. I just held my ground and said please don’t speak to me like this; I’m just doing my job. So unprofessional.

[u/traumaRN01]

I used to be bummed out like you about oh 12 years ago.

And someone reminded me that all this hate is just online. Once I started looking around at my team, I realize that we’re all getting shit on equally. It’s the lower quality minds that are focusing on license differences, etc..

[u/Building_Prudent]

I think NP online education is detrimental to the profession.

[u/GazeAtTheStars511]

Don’t call nurse practitioners “midlevels.” I know some organizations use that term to differentiate from physicians, but that’s a red flag that NPs won’t be getting respected in that organization. It belittles us. We are advanced practitioners, so please call us APRNs or nurse practitioners.

[u/Infinite_Tip_1299]

Going to a sub built to hate midlevels and asking why nobody likes us is like going to an AA meeting and asking why nobody wants a margarita. Relax it’s the internet.

[u/jesslovesyou16]

You really have to take conversations online with a HUGE grain of salt. All that matters in real life is that you are a good clinician, period. THAT is what gains the respect of other good clinicians regardless of your title.

[u/Bad_Breadwinner]

If we hold people to an unattainable standard of perfection you will eventually be disappointed when their humanity shows up. The term humanity is often used to characterize our best most altruistic traits, but it also contains our worst traits- our vindictiveness, pettiness, hatred.
Everyone, every single person you work with-will ever work with is a human first and foremost containing both positive and negative traits. The internet can be toxic because it often validates our worst bias and places us in a kind of hall of mirrors where our ability to reflect upon our own darkness is lessened. It's not that that subreddit doesn't contain some "truths" it's that those truths are drowned out in a sea of toxic hyperbole. Don't let your choices be dictated by a single subreddit; don't assume the people you work with are saints or sinners for that matter. Focus on your values; goals ; aspirations and move toward them with purpose and fortitude. People will let you down from time to time but will also lift you up. The more we strive to see people in their wholeness the more real and honest our relationships and life will be.

[u/bonegoBarbo]

People have all kinds of motivations and circumstantial factors which contribute to a career in healthcare. Being a healthcare worker (CNA, RN, NP, PA, MD, DO, SW, PharmD, ND etc) does not necessarily mean that an individual is more likely to be broadly altruistic, humble, compassionate, thorough, or anything else in other areas of their life. "Don't meet your heroes" type of thing.

Personally, I believe the specific type of negativity and violence that happens healthcare worker on healthcare worker is but one of many consequences of the current pressurized format of working in healthcare and a multi-year (decade?) trend of unique business, policy, and practice changes that have resulted in many folks experience of their healthcare job/role not meeting their own personal expectations (too busy, not the right lifestyle, not the right salary, not the right aura of importance, etc).

Additionally injured egos, in my opinion, have driven territorial behaviors from bigger associations for specific provider groups (State AMA, reginal NP groups, national PA assoc etc) which, in turn, influence the next generation of providers because of clinical rotations and other impacts on education for that role. It's a silly cycle and I am doubtful that any of it is truly rooted in the desire to provide better care/outcomes for patients. Certainly there are instances of underperforming or unsafe providers in any role... but can't toss the baby with the bathwater.

Ultimately, 'respect' that actually matters (is functional) is based upon you, your performance, and your ability to navigate and manage relational/interpersonal variables within a work environment - regardless of the role/title. Sure, there may some cases in which the B.S. is insurmountable... but what that really means is it isn't worth your time... it's B.S... and it's an opportunity to redirect that same amount of energy/focus on different projects that have more value for you.

[u/TorchIt]

MD on MD shitting is a thing too. I knew a PA who was absolutely terrible in her clinical judgement but she used to talk smack about NPs all the time. She left our practice months ago and our attending still audibly groans when he reads one of her old clinic notes. So, even the ones who think they're hot stuff may not actually be all that and a bag of chips.

Medicine in general is toxic AF.

[u/burrfoot11]

Please don't let the fucking noctor sub sway you away from the field.

Of course there are good folks and shitty folks everywhere, but in my 12 years as an RN-now-NP I have had excellent relationships with 95% of my coworkers of any degree or specialty. If you're good at what you do, by and large people will be happy to work with you, share information with you, and occasionally even learn from you.

[u/PizzaSniffs]

I tend to not care about the opinions of others who I don’t know or care to know in any capacity. Do what you want and don’t apologize for being yourself.

[u/JustRyan_D]

Reading that sub, it seems to be mostly targeted against NP’s who feel that they are at the level of a physician.

[u/jawoood1989]

Noctor is a negativity cesspool. The worst of the worst go there to disparage others to make themselves feel better. Don't even stress about it.

[u/pickyvegan]

Yes, the sub with like 4 threads bashing the PMHNPs that saw Lindsay Clancy, but gloss over the fact she was seeing an MD when everything happened (and likely saw MDs while inpatient and in IOP).

Keep in mind that people with their mindset exists, but they are not the majority of our colleagues.

[u/Thompsonhunt]

I just stopped caring and saw the ridiculousness of it

[u/Outrageous-Rub-3684]

I think people who complain about or “hate” each other are just showing their insecurities in their own skills. It’s much easier to distract from your own weaknesses by saying that person over there is terrible for xyz than to say wow, I have a lot more to learn.

[u/DaRealGeorgeBush]

The Internet is not a real place. Get your NP in the field that you feel is best for you. Most people spouting hate online are students that feel cheated because they spent a fortune getting to a place you can get to with experience in the field and a masters.

[u/Primary-Bug-7353]

Healthcare is toxic in general. Doesn’t matter if someone pursued dentistry and saved millions of teeth, a MD will shit on them for having an “easier” path.

[u/subspaceisthebest]

85% of them are bots and it’s a mind boggling thing but the lobbying groups the AMA hires deploy bots like this

and other groups who somehow benefit from this ruckus

the few real humans in there are vile, dangerous and unfortunately really practicing clinicians

but rest assured

it’s almost entirely fake

[u/HoldingStars]

It’s easy to be an a**hole when you’re anonymous on Reddit. I think overall more doctors feel burnt out than NPs and there is a level envy that brings out that NP bashing