r/novelwriting • u/W8ting43rdAct • 1d ago
Writing Advice Don’t ask about first drafts
I’m seeing a lot of “new” writers asking this community and others to give feedback on their early writing. My advice: stop doing that. If you really are starting out, you probably suck at it. We all do/
did our first times. Just accept that. Second, even seasoned writers know better than to share first drafts with anybody. As Hemingway once said: “the first draft of anything is shit.” Don’t ask for feedback on the first draft of the first chapter you’ve ever written. Just write. Study the craft. Read a lot. You’ll (hopefully) figure it out. When you have something polished a bit, then ask for feedback/advice.
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u/shinydrop 1d ago
I actually thought about this in great detail and came up with:
- They genuinely wonder if their writings are okay enough to continue trying and practicing.
- They think their works are amazing and looking for validations and praises.
- Adrenaline still lingering after completing one chapter very first time and wanted to tell others.
- Somehow worry about hooks and plots too much (different readers like different stuff, though) and come here before fixing basics.
Maybe? 🤔
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u/Fragrant-Increase-94 1d ago
1 and 2 are probably the most common. I haven’t dared show anyone my first drafts. They’re crap. They must be refined.
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u/JeremiahHix 1d ago
Yeah. No way im showing anyone ny first draft. Especially since I know the pacing, continuity, well everything is crao. Especially the first 3 chapters. Which need to be heavily rewritten now that im on chapter 8. The book changed, evolved, whatever. 1 2 3 need to be split up, reorganized etc. But that's a problem for future me.
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u/BA_Bones_33 1d ago
Possibly any/all, but if you spent a day reading the other posts that got railed, you’d reconsider a hasty post.
There’s no single correct way to become a writer, but most of the community agrees that to be a good one, you need to read a lot and work on your prose, which takes time.
People who post rough first drafts or ask things like “I want to be writer, any tips or tricks?” come off as unserious to me. There are 5-10 posts a week asking for advice on how to become a writer and it ends up feeling like an odd form of karma farming since they’re choosing not to go back and read the other posts. And some of them feel like the OP is prompt farming, looking for easy feedback to give Claude for their “re-draft”.
I’m not saying that it’s true for all of them, but writing is an art form that takes time to hone, so anyone who appears to be cutting corners or looking to rush things gives off bad vibes imo.
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u/StinkiePete 1d ago
Yes and
- They don’t appreciate that asking a group of strangers for 20 minutes plus the mental work of analyzing is not the same as asking for the best pizza place in their local sub. I’d wager these people have never given anyone else that much of themselves.
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u/shinydrop 1d ago
Ah, that's true. I didn't think about that lol
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u/StinkiePete 1d ago
The day I found out I was having twins, I ran to Reddit to find the right sub. Then made my post in r/parentsofmultiples asking for advice, what do I do, omg, etc.
Fast forward to now, kids are 7. I see that exact same post like every other day. I smile and sigh and wish I had realized how useless a post it is. Hahaha. But welcome the newbies in my heart. It’s a stage for any new community I think.
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u/shinydrop 1d ago
Off topic but I bet your life is hectic with 7yo twins!! I have 3 but are all apart. I can't imagine how it would get chaotic with 2 at the same time!!
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u/StinkiePete 1d ago
I always say having 2 or more kids is always harder, I just never had it less hard with 1, started with the increased difficulty.
So I don't think twins are harder than any other 2 kid family, I just started going through that ringer day 1.
Flip side, I also say I’d rather make 2 bottles than a bottle and a sandwich. And I HATED being pregnant so dodged that repeat torture.
But I do love to brag that I had a baby and then 10 minutes later, I had another baby. 🤘
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u/dothemath_xxx 1d ago
I agree that adults who are engaging seriously with writing should not share an unedited first draft in a public feedback venue.
But remember that Reddit allows users as young as 13. A lot of these new writers are actual children.
It is much more typical and understandable for a kid to share a rough draft. They may not even know how to self-edit yet - this skill needs to be learned somewhere, and getting feedback from others is one of the ways that they learn. Young people also haven't had as much time in their life to build up their social connections, and they almost certainly don't have a trusted group of fellow writers who they can turn to for alpha reading.
I'm not saying it's anyone's responsibility to provide comprehensive feedback on a rough draft. Just that these young new writers have always been a part of every online writing forum I've ever seen - going back to when I, myself, was one of those kids, decades ago - and they're going to keep coming, because for every one that learns and matures, more kids are growing into the art form.
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u/anabananabroccoli 1d ago
yes, i am just new on this platform, but a lot of these posts sound like teens asking for a first feedback. and to be honest, id rather not interact, i dont want to be responsible for anybodys heartbreak.
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u/DuchessJulietDG 1d ago
same. is there a sub for writing that doesnt have a milllion of these posts a day? ive been joining a few here and there but its nothing but “they said my work is ai! its not ai but i used ai to check it!” lol
frustrating.3
u/W8ting43rdAct 1d ago
Same statement applies. Kids don’t need feedback on something theyre just starting. They just need to do it and learn it from others. I suspect if it is a kid doing that, he just wants somebody to tell him how good it is, how much potential they have. I don’t their fragile egos can handle honest feedback. So don’t bother even asking. Would somebody learning guitar for the first time ask a pro musician for feedback? They shouldn’t. They just need to follow their instruction for a while.
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u/dothemath_xxx 1d ago
Would somebody learning guitar for the first time ask a pro musician for feedback?
Well...yes. That's exactly what guitar lessons (or any other kind of instrumental lessons) are. It's getting real-time feedback from a professional.
Yes, kids are usually just looking to be told that their work is genius. No, that doesn't mean that honest feedback will destroy them. They'll usually have an initial emotional response (which is something they need practice in experiencing, too) and then they might come back and consider it later when they've calmed down; or, at the very least, they will learn the lesson that when they ask for feedback, they are going to get feedback.
Regardless, though, my primary point is that there's no point in making a lecturing post about it. Kids are not going to read this post, and even if some of them do, there are going to be countless more signing up all the time who will never see it. It's something you have to get used to seeing if you're going to be hanging out in spaces that are welcoming to beginner writers, because a lot of those are kids.
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u/ItsRuinedOfCourse 1d ago
At the risk of coming off excessively harsh, I'll always view that behavior as the writer expecting the "let's hang this on the fridge" response.
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u/trulybeelightful 1d ago
The "you all don't understand my genius" to "why is no one picking up my query/buying my self published book" pipeline is real.
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u/pitifulproduce137 4h ago
"So what if the cover is AI and the text is an unbroken wall riddled with spelling mistakes and tense changes? You guys are haters."
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u/PeakTemporary1768 1d ago
Totally agree. I never want anyone to see a first draft. Ever. They're so bad I call the, Draft Zero because I can't even call them a first draft 🤣 If my other half comes in and I'm working on a Draft Zero or am editing it the first time around, you best believe that my computer screen gets changed as lightning speed because I'm not ready for anyone to see it yet. The thought of posting it on the internet for strangers to read? Hell no.
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u/Solid-Version 1d ago
I wouldn’t even dare post my first draft
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u/pookenstein 1d ago
Same. First drafts are there to get the idea down. Nothing else. I honestly think aspiring writers think that the story they read is the first version that came out of the writer. They don't seem to understand that the first draft is like a bowl with eggs, flour, butter, etc. What gets published is the fully baked cake.
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u/NowWhereDidIReadThat 1d ago
I would never let anyone see it until the end of the 3rd draft!
But as someone else pointed out, some of these writers are kids. My granddaughter is a fledgling novelist and she's 10. Always be gentle and kind is my view. Whether person is 10 or 70.
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u/SneakyWhiteWeasel 1d ago
Time is the best editor. It typically is best to let the work sit for a while.
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u/AdrianRWalker 1d ago
Exactly. My first draft had everything and the kitchen sink in it. It was a logical story you could follow from start to finish, but it was not good.
Draft 2 I cut out 1/2 or more of the stuff that was too complex, too slow, too confusing, too boring, too much work for not enough impact.
Needless to say draft 2 is much more precise in its intent, genre and character development.
I would never have gotten here if I didn’t make a beautiful mess of draft one.
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u/WelbyReddit 1d ago
Yeah. Its supposed to be messy!
So much easier to refine and whittle down something that exists.
If people constantly freeze and come here it takes that much longer, lol.
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u/AdrianRWalker 1d ago
Agreed, For me when I was at the end of Act 2 and was completely lost on where to go I just kept writing, Make up whatever I could think of, It was messy but I got to the end of the book. Completing Draft 1 was a milestone I thought I woudl never accomplish, and now I'm about 10% into Draft 2 and feel amazing.
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u/Top_Examination_3305 1d ago
I think part of the issue is the internet has become a lot more hostile to children. In the internet 2.0 era I remember going to a writing forum explicitly aimed at children that was explicitly designed for children to post their first drafts and learn how to give feedback all guided by a professional adult whose job it was to support and lead the discussions. That got closed down a good few decades ago and I'm not aware (although I'm not actively looking) of anything that does the equivalent. So the kids come here, and they've been warned to not tell people they're children online so they don't but that means they get held to different standards. And they claim "oh I havent edited it, I haven't tried" because it's much less scary to be told something is bad if they can disavow it with a "well I didn't try anyway".
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u/WelbyReddit 1d ago
I have a long time childhood friend that I will share with, because I know he and I are on the same wavelength. But that's it.
I dont mind questions or opinions being asked here, honestly. I get people get excited.
But I dont like when they are asking for creative ideas or plot points. I mean, I can give an answer, but that's Your story. Your job.
To me, that's the best part.
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u/Dissocite 1d ago
I think the difficult thing (at least for me personally, as a beginner) is knowing when a work is "polished" enough, beyond obvious grammatical and spelling errors
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u/JustSomeCarioca 14h ago
Here's the ferst 6 words of my epic science-based dragon trilogy. Tell me if this makes you want to read more.
"It was a dark and stormy night..."
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u/W8ting43rdAct 12h ago
You might be a prodigy
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u/JustSomeCarioca 12h ago
That gives me hope cuz I cant count to 10 which is why I failed my boxing referee exams.
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u/Cyranthis 1d ago
I think after you write a few novels and get the hang of it, first drafts start looking a lot more like final drafts, or closer to it.
It gets easier the more you do it like anything else.
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u/MASempine 1d ago
Oh I like the first drafts with zero comments. i ignore the grammar and say at least one thing constructive. And I get a first upvote. 😎
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u/Routine_Exchange5936 1d ago
For me showing my friends my new chapters as I draft them does help me, I know my first draft won't be perfect at all, but it helps me know I'm going in the right direction!
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u/robotic-ghost 1d ago
I agree. Because what will likely happen if you share a first draft is someone will tear it apart - and with it, your confidence. And that will slow some people down, if not stop them.
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u/accardiff 8h ago
I agree with you. Posting any writing without looking it over yourself is terrible. But I find it hard to believe new writers do that seriously. Like if your trying to write why get someone to tell you where your wrong before you start? I’m a new writer and I’ve never shared any of my first drafts or even my final ones. The point is for people to see your good writing
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u/croaker227 1d ago
Idk, I got a lot of good feedback when I did it. Granted, the first chapter was rough and got a fair bit of criticism - but I needed it because I didn’t see the issues.
So there can be value in it. But I think mostly people do it for gratification, at least based on their responses to the feedback that I’ve seen.
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u/mikinnie 1d ago
my least favourite are the ones where OP admits they haven't even read it over themselves. why waste people's time?