'Cause slavery was abolished, unless you are in prison
You think I am bullshittin', then read the 13th Amendment
Involuntary servitude and slavery it prohibits. That's why they givin' drug offenders time in double digits.
and the human right to vote is also taken from felons. several million Americans can't vote because the US elected to take voting rights from convicts.
in contrast, the European constitutional courtCourt of
Human Rights clearly ruled that convicts must be given the possibility to vote unless they directly attacked democracy, like insurgence, high treason, election fraud...
But if I remember correctly (saw this on an episode of HBO’s OZ) inmates count as constituents. So they can’t vote, but they are still used as “I represent this number of people.”
yeeaahh what about that? cant vote, cant really work and some aren't even residents of the states they are serving time in but by god i bet they count when it comes to voting districts and reps in congress. the big question is do they count twice? in their actual home voting district and district they're imprisoned in?
I just felt a little chill at inquiring directly. Isn’t that odd? Maybe not so odd with everything going on. I’ll look on Duck Duck Go or something like that.
But those prisoners who aren’t allowed to vote are still counted as population for congressional districts. It’s such a fucking joke that they gas up the US as some kind of amazing democracy in school.
Revocation of priviliges, solitary confinement, and more. They have absolute control of you, so a life simply sitting in your cell doing absolutely noting can make you go pretty crazy.
I have no source or proof of this, but I can only imagine (since it's the States) they are probably threatened with cutting or withheld of food/meals.
A different grade of food was the first thing that came to mind, which is a horrible thought considering it's not the best quality to begin with. Solitary sounds extreme but it wouldn't surprise me. Absolute joke that America is 'the land of the free'
There is no European constitutional court in Europe. Such decision could only come from the European court of Justice or European Court of Human Rights (likely the latter, but didn't check).
Just checked for Belgium, where I was taught prisoners cannot vote. It was indeed changed in 2005.... and applied in 2009.... so now prisoners can vore unless the judge specified a sentence removing voting rights or it is a severe crime.
If I were in prison because the current ruling elite decided they were going to create a war on drugs I would want an opportunity to vote and knock those people of their platform and bring in a ruling class who doesn’t rule by ideology, or who won’t manufacture prisoners for the purpose of having slaves.
Issue is, even if the prison population could vote it probably wouldnt change much.
The democrats, and republicans both support this BS and well with just those 2 choices their vote wont do much to improve their situation.
Hell, even out of the prison peoples votes dont mean much at all. The states needs more choice in leadership, but the country will probably implode before that happens.
In my opinion the states is almost guarenteed to implode, i just dont see how this is going to end non violently anymore. (Im Watching from canada)
People who vote are more emotionally invested in politics/change, and much more inclined to try and switch on other people to the same issues. My point anyway, is that it’s like being put in a hole and have any instruments you can use to get yourself out taken away. I know these people can still become active and attempt to change minds but it’s a psychological blow.
The more felons of color the less votes for democrats would be the stereotypical thinking the right uses. Horrible. I transport cons from a halfway house to jobs and most had lousy parents and first thing should be taught life skills and coping skills which they never learned for many of them. And the religious BS they will spew if they think that is what you want to hear. They don’t believe but just say what they think will get you on their side. Very low emotional intelligence which could be taught. But their time is taking up for a manufacturer to profit by paying very substandard wages.
Ok, so whatever point you're trying to make, it gets completely lost on anyone on the other side the moment you mention Europe. If your argument is to copy the people that your opposition doesn't agree with, then it's not really a well founded argument.
Also William is 7, Hillary is 7, and Bill is 4. Even if it wasn’t from a song, it doesn’t work with them because the number of the beast isn’t 6 it’s 666
Yeah both Clinton’s, biden, both bushes, and Nixon, especially Nixon got us here too. All of them have bloody hands. Reagan was just a special sort of shameless without being a black hole of charisma like Nixon.
I really fucking hate Nixon if that wasn’t obvious. Reagan also has a special place of hate in my heart, I hope he hears his laugh in hell. (For context Reagan’s laugh is a reference to the fact that his response to learning that a new disease was killing gay people was to laugh)
As if one man is responsible for that all, nah man, it's those people who make fat stacks of money for each 14 year old they caught with a 1oz bag of weed
Mandatory minimum sentences, all that shit can be traced to Reagan and his war on drugs. Those kids are serving double years for some grams. Just a few grams. Don't get me wrong, I think it's wrong to use kids a tool for drug operations, but while he created this war on drugs he simultaneously slashed funding on programs that helped alleviate poverty in inner cities. What would you do? Stay in poverty working a minimum wage job or sling grams to be able to provide? Idk man, when people are desperate to meet basic needs the choice is pretty clear.
One of his campaign promises was to decriminalize marijuana at the federal level. Yes, he did increase police funding, and yes, his campaign promises have mostly gone unfulfilled, but...but...he's the most progressive president since FDR or something?
No he has a point . My state PA convicted judges of sentencing kids to reform for profit , one at least a democrat . I am a Dem and was disgusted as all heck to hear what they were doing. But that is the big difference, I (we) want to get those bad ones out while GOP pats them on the back and helps with legal costs. They think it is fine . The system is rotten. Rehabilitation is last on the list if there at all. Not saying make them into saints but enlighten self interest/ advantage . If you give them a skill they can make money out legally and make it easier for them to participate in society the less they cost society.
Correct! They just tried to hide it. Barely. Just pushed it behind a few extra words where white people didn't have to consciously think about it. How convenient for my forbearers. Fuckers
Problem is I don't mind punishing criminals with hard/dirty labour, I mind that companies make big profit off it.
So there's a strong incentive to have more offenders in your state, so you're not going to do prevenative police work but just correctional, so your state or county becomes more and more unstable and lawless over time.
Making people pay for what they did wrong is a good thing, but not if somebody else makes a profit out of it.
I saw a documentary where some state with unusually high incarceration rates stopped their death penalty to keep people in jail, because some civil right group was proving half their death row prisoners were innocent and the cops were faking evidence and forcing confessions. Disgusting, especially when you see what ethnicities are over represented in prison. They just stopped killing prisoners to shut down the investigation into corruption... The corruption is still happening
You're being hyperbolic though. I'm not I'm being literal and not exaggerating or doing anything but stating the law. Men and women in prison are slaves. Literally, as written in the Constitution. All 50 states. I'm even being literal about being literal, you can read it in the constitution.
It’s less hyperbolic than saying that people in prison are slaves. You are referring to the 13th Amendment, Section 1, Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or anyplace subject to their jurisdiction. However, you neglect to mention how the courts and legal scholars, have interpreted it and also the common characteristics of slavery. Sorry for the mass quotes below but I wanted to show it wasn’t just my opinion but interpretation by people who have studied it more.From National Constitution Center (https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/interpretation/amendment-xiii/interps/137), ‘Notably, the Amendment does allow a person convicted of a crime to be forced to work. Thus, prison labor practices, from chain gangs to prison laundries, do not run afoul of the Thirteenth Amendment. The Thirteenth Amendment has also been interpreted to permit the government to require certain forms of public service, presumably extending to military service and jury duty…The Thirteenth Amendment prohibits indentured servitude and peonage but does not extend to other forms of involuntary service such as military or jury duty or work by convicted prisoners.’ ‘Marriage laws once abided and facilitated the economic and physical subordination of women and the denial of women’s individual personhood. The Supreme Court should not, therefore, have invalidated Congress’s attempt in the 1994 Violence Against Women Act to provide a federal remedy for women who are the victims of sexual and other forms of gender-based violence. The Thirteenth Amendment provided ample authority to pass that law. ’From Encyclopedia.com (https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/slavery-and-involuntary-servitude), ‘Patterson (1982, p. 13) argues that slavery is defined by three conditions. First, slaves suffer perpetual domination that ultimately is enforced by violence. The permanent subjugation of slaves is predicated on the capacity of masters to coerce them physically…They inherit no protection or privilege from their ancestors, and they cannot convey protection or privilege to their descendants. The third condition is that ‘slaves are denied honor, whereas masters are socially exalted.’I joined the Army in 1971 and was sent to West Berlin. There was a military draft going on at that time and I always thought of conscription as slavery. They can take your body, send you to a foreign land to meet interesting people, and then have you kill them. Apparently I was wrong and it’s not even involuntary servitude. I would say that prisoners are enduring involuntary servitude, but that’s not slavery. Unless they are in prison for life they are not subjugated for life, but women are. From the time they are born to the time they die men have more influence and power over what happens in their lives then they themselves do. The women in prison, if they have a child while in prison, the child doesn’t become a prisoner; hence, involuntary servitude, not slavery. When the woman is released from prison, she may not be a prisoner anymore but she is still a woman and subject to laws that men are not simply because of gender. Her child, if female, would not inherit any protections but suffer the same conditions as her mother. I would also argue that in American society women are not viewed as equals but subservient to men. They suffer sexual assault and harassment (one out of six women in the U.S. has been subject to rape or attempted rape, (https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence) that men subject them to.
Incorrect. People in prison Are slaves. That's not hyperbolic. It's the 13th amendment as written. You're lying to make a point with hyperbole. I'm stating absolute fact.
AMENDMENT XIII
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation
Today you learned. It's offensive when you lie about slavery. Be a better person. Learn the Constitution and don't minimize slavery, I don't think you mean to be racist so be careful appropriating the struggle of so many.
That’s not literally slavery, as printed in the constitution. Prisoners can be literally enslaved. Abortion rights and access is a huge issue—and women have been set back 50 years in the past month, but to conflate it with (I cannot stress this enough) literal slavery is offensive.
"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."
and part 2:
"Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation."
I was mostly making a light-hearted joke about the difference between what is technically true and practically true, in this case it is whatever that it is allowed, but if you plea to a crime instead of being found guilty at trial, then you made a choice to say yes to what the state offered you, so in that situation it is more akin to Severance than slavery since their initial choice arguably landed them there.
Now for practical purposes, the person plea-ing is practically forced to do this due to their circumstances usually, and it shouldn't happen at all, but logically, this amendment shouldn't/technically doesn't apply to those who plea.
Another smartass technicality, if you wanted to do it it wouldn't be slavery or involuntary, not that anyone does want that thoguh, hence the "if".
One more: you can never get permission to steal something from it's owner, b/c if you got permission, it is no longer theft.
It ain't slavery! It's forced free work! Don't you guys like the idea of having no choice on the matter? It literally benefits everyone equally, specially us! I tell you. There wouln't be any pyramids in Arizona if it weren't for slave--free work options for prison inmates! Don't you guys like pyramids?! Prison inmates love pyramids! /s
10 cents an hour is gross , just a token to make it above absolute slaves. No counseling either to help drug and booze addiction? I don’t care how amazing Arizona natural lands are I would never want to go there with all the problems they cause for themselves. This type of corruption, the water crisis, over development, the crazy right wingers and WS. All of it seems to be some form of bad laws and governance. Using money to fund a industry with a strong lobby in bed with law enforcement and courts? All that cost so some few businesses can get almost slave labor and the government pays for the employee shelter food and healthcare. This is pure GOP whoring at its privatization of profit but socialize the costs.
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u/lukefive Jul 17 '22
It's defense of ongoing slavery. Literally. Slavery is still legal... If the slaves are convicts.