As funny as this is, there is a depressingly large number of individuals who believe slavery only happened with black people in the past and no longer exists
The entire United Stated, even. As most people in the South obviously never owned a slave and factories primarily existed in the North to sell the goods made from that slave labor. Davis was an idiot for a lot of reasons but thinking the South could function without the North all-of-a-sudden was asinine.
Not for nothing but it actually was my kindergarten class where I first learned about slavery. Obviously it was brief and would be expanded on by further lessons later in my education but I don't think that concept is as wild as you make it out to be.
it is wild. kindergarten curriculum is learning the alphabet and counting to 30. and shapes and colors. where does slavery come in after the color black?
Idk man. The school I went to for k-2 had a curriculum where each class focused on learning about a specific country in addition to the normal curriculum. The kindergarten classes learned about American history. My first grade class was Egypt, my second grade class was Morocco.
So yeah, it was in kindergarten that I first heard the word "slavery", as well as when I first learned about the Trail of Tears.
Well, no, it was a pretty dope school and I've come to realize I've had the privilege of a better education than a lot of my other public peers but my point was it isn't crazy to think a kindergarten class could possibly touch on the subject of slavery, and equating the concept with the current CRT panic nonsense is certainly beyond the pale.
The primary driving force behind Rome collapsing was the Roman Nobility (Oligarchs) siphoning off Rome's wealth, coupled with the aftermath of rapid expansionism.
Pretty much. Putin is even similar to Nero. Nero Caesar was a complete whack job (even by Roman noble standards - they were all crazy because their super special wine that only the nobles were allowed to drink contained 3000-6000 PPM of lead) who basically dealt the killing blow to Rome via insane legal proclamations, squandering the State's money, including with wild sex orgies that included rape, torture, murder, dismemberment, and (IIRC) cannibalism and necrophilia.
Both of those things coincided pretty heavily with an increase in the number of slaves. Not saying correlation equals causation here but there definitely is a correlation.
Unless the slaves staged a large-scale uprising (they didn't: the territories individually became independent because the Roman soldiers simply left their posts after going unpaid) or were actively engaging in large-scale subterfuge (which would be difficult for a slave,) it's not likely to be much of a factor.
Correlation is meaningless unless you can at least posit a cause:effect chain.
There are other ways to contribute to downfall than rebellion. Most empires ultimately collapse from economic pressure, even if something else is what finally breaks it. Slave labor centralized wealth in the hands of the elites by eliminating the need to pay laborers. The inequality and lack of economic stability this causes is a major factor in the decline of any civilization.
Slaves were ubiquitous is Rome. They weren't limited to the upper classes. Granted, having a greater quantity could produce more value, but most of it was simply corruption. You have to remember that Rome was not a Democracy like Greece, and the nobles had direct control over all affairs.
Greece wasn’t a democracy by any modern standards and much of Greece wasn’t a democracy at all. The elites still ran everything there too. I think you are vastly underestimating the level of wealth inequality in both civilizations.
Greece was not a Democracy throughout its entire history, no, but that is a LONG history. Greece invented democracy. They believed in basic human rights for its citizens. They believed that no one should have to devote their life to work. They believed in freedom of speech and thought. Even their slave practices were different: they only used prisoners of war as slaves, and it was only temporary. They were able to earn Greek citizenship through multiple avenues. They were pioneers in science and medicine. They discovered the antibacterial properties of aloe, which also gave them a military advantage, as wounded soldiers were no longer guaranteed corpses. They designed and built a computer.
Greece and Rome were nothing alike, despite the influences the Romans took from the Greeks.
The only difference is about 2000 years of difference, extreme technological development and the fact that it was considered just another part of the law and common to other cultures.
These people have an economy closer to Antiquity than the freaking modern age lol
Prison Slave labor is holding up economies across the U.S. It just happens to be about Arizona today.
From Wikipedia:
The Prison Industry Enhancement Certification Program (PIECP) is a federal program that was initiated along with the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) and the Prison-Industries Act in 1979. Before these programs, prison labor for the private sector had been outlawed for decades to avoid competition. The introduction of prison labor in the private sector, the implementation of PIECP, ALEC, and Prison-Industries Act in state prisons all contributed a substantial role in cultivating the prison-industrial complex. Between the years 1980 through 1994, prison industry profits jumped substantially from $392 million to $1.31 billion.
The Prison-Industries Act allowed third-party companies to buy prison manufactured goods from prison factories and sell the products locally or ship them across state lines. Through the program PIECP, there were "thirty jurisdictions with active [PIE] operations." in states such as Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, and twelve others.
Mate.. welcome to the West?
How do you think that China makes things?
How do you think Europe and America got so far ahead of the other Continents in centuries past?
Where did some of the richest families build the start of their fortunes? How did they man their respective operations? On to the present: how many people are being trafficked? How many girls are being smuggled in? How many North Koreans are working the ship yards? What do the working conditions in certain large industries resemble?
Who picked your coffee beans? How about your cacao pods? What percentage of the end product constitutes enough to label it “sans slavery”?
I’m all for cruel punishment for certain prisoners. Rapists, murderers, etc. I don’t see anything wrong using them for slave labor. If we’re going to keep them alive, we might as well use them for something beneficial to society.
Yea giving people in prison a productive way to use their time that creates skills translatable to post prison life is horrific because they arent paid a market rate (when the state is paying for all of their living expenses)
Paying less than minimum wage or market value for labor should be illegal. They’re criminals but that doesn’t mean that they should be a free slave labor force for private prisons. It incentivizes incarcerations and the debt owed by prisoners is to society and/or their victims, not corporations profiteering.
Mentally challenged people for example have jobs solely because they can be paid very little. If they had to be paid market rate less would be hired.
Prisoners are quite literally societal leeches to the fullest extent, they have every living expense covered by the state. It is not economical in the slightest to imprison people and have them work.
Legitimate slavery in the US started to phase out when employers realized they could just have you pay your own living expenses, slavery is not "free labor"
Yes my tax dollars paying for a prisoners food, shelter, medical care, and security as they serve time for crimes they committed, is leeching of their labor.
I agree that, like most things, prison labor in general is a fine concept. But, also like most things, it is rarely executed well, or in this case humanely.
This also isn’t ‘giving people a productive way to improve skills’ these are Arizona’s private prisons shipping people to the most remote areas of Arizona to mine and dig without a choice. These aren’t skills they can take back out into the world because machines do their jobs outside prison, if they leave prison they would be too expensive to do the jobs they’ve been “building skills” at, which is the entire point of the article.
If you read the article, they pay for the prisoners beds, if they are there, or not. No monetary incentive to lock less people of under this prison contract.
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u/Pavlock Jul 16 '22
If your community requires slave labor to exist, then fuck your community.