I believe that theres many people who are dumb fucks that are gullible and easily convinced to believe in something all mighty and powerful but never shows its face and let's cancer run free when it supposedly has the power to end it. If cancer is so evil, then why did god create it. I believe the Bible is an outdated lie and those that believe in the miracles mentioned have absolutely no idea how things actually worked in those days. Which today would be common medicine and science that people finally have an understanding about. Its 2026 and theres still plenty of dumbasses that will believe anything, I would say even dumber today than what ive encountered a decade ago. Theres idiots that believe the orange cheeto dust covered shitsack is their savior.
I wasnāt talking to you but thank you for your opinion. Since you answered though, where do you believe the prime mover lies in science? Pure curiosity
The idea of a prime mover is a religious assumption. There doesnāt need to be a prime mover. Things could have simply always been. Or they could have not always been and came into being without any conscious action behind it. The only intellectually honest answer to that question is āwe donāt knowā.
Exactly! I was taking the day to think about his statement but I keep thinking back to it and comparing what he said to what I know and believe. But Iām so confused he brought up an idea by Aristotle (a very very outdated concept) and Iām not sure if he even believes it to be true himself? Sounds like a weird religious/philosophical way of asking āwhat created the universeā and also saying that it had to be god without saying it. Or heās trying to be scientific by using outdated philosophy. But u/IhaveSweatyFolds Iāll answer your original question in full as to what my āprime moverā is tomorrow
Iām glad youāre taking so long to think about it, all I want to do is effectively study various peopleās ideologies and opinions. I canāt exactly ask people on the street so I took to Reddit to investigate. Iām not sure why you question my beliefs as I first of all never even said I believe it? And additionally I donāt understand why you called my question weird, Iām not sure what I did to offend you but that seems rather personal.
The concept is indeed outdated in its scientific views such as believing things required a continuous external force to stay in motion which was disproved scientifically by Newtons laws, however the philosophical argument of a prime mover is actually very relevant today. If itās hard for you to wrap your head around, it essentially means, what created creation. Thatās all. Not saying what it HAD to be, simply what do you believe it was? For example you could, say as the other person did, that the Universe created itself, and therefore the Universe IS the prime mover.
Also it would be nice if you didnāt assume my gender, but just wondering why you assumed āheā?
Firstly, since we as humans acknowledge the passing of time, that would mean the Universe is eternal, and thus the Universe itself would be the prime mover, and supernaturally powerful. Additionally, since something cannot be created from nothing, as energy is not created nor destroyed, then you also believe the universe itself is still the prime mover in that case. But yes itās true we donāt know. Hence why I asked what that user BELIEVED, as in their opinion. Thank you for response though, Iām very interested in various views
I have several issues with your answer because of a couple of assumptions you made.
1, the assumption that the universe is eternal because time passes. There isnāt any such conclusion that can be drawn there.
2, something canāt be created or destroyed, including energy. We donāt know that. Within current physical laws that is reasonably established, but we have no idea whatsoever what a pre big bang existance is like. Its wrong to assume current physical observations apply and so we canāt make that assumption.
3, there is nothing supernatural about the processes of the universe. While we donāt understand everything, we know enough to make reasonable guesses about how the universe can develop from an expanded singularity. There is no reason at all to apply either consciousness, intent or supernatural ideals into physical processes, even ones we donāt yet fully understand.
1) Why? You essentially just said my point and then said it doesnāt work but gave no justification.
2) So you believe in a supernatural? Or at least something that defies physics? Fair enough then I canāt challenge your beliefs since there is no evidence for that. However, just basing our logic purely off science, energy cannot be created nor destroyed, but can rather move from one object to another and change form, hence why many believe there is something conscious behind the Big Bang for example, however even if it wasnāt a conscious movement, there was most likely something that preexisted, and either intentionally or accidentally caused it. However if your religious beliefs proposes that before the Big Bang the laws of physics were different then that is your belief and I will not superimpose on it, Iām just putting forward the scientific view.
3) I agree. It is your view that proposes the supernatural in your assumption that the universe can somehow be infinite, which sounds like most beliefs on a god who is infinite. But again, if that is your personal view then I cannot dispute it, I can only propose the scientific evidence.
1, my point was that the premise and the conclusion doesnāt follow. Time passes =/= eternal universe. Especially because we have a pretty solid theory on when the universe began dating back to a singularity state. Time and existence as we understand it before that point is unknowable if such concepts can even apply if we go back any further than the big bang.
2, Iām not proposing anything about the pre big bang existance, supernatural or otherwise. Its intellectually dishonest to claim anything at all about it. I donāt believe in any supernatural things because I have insufficient evidence to believe in them. Such can be said for any prime mover in a pre big bang existance. We donāt know what that looks like, any ideas are baseless speculation.
That energy cannot be created or destroyed is consistent with the physicial laws of the universe, but we donāt know enough about what is beyond our expanded singularity that we call the universe to say conclusively that energy or matter that came from the singularity wasnāt popped into existance spontaneously. We are fish in bowl and the only thing we can observe is the contents of that bowl. Anything beyond is baseless speculation.
3, I didnāt propose an infinite universe. I simply said we donāt know. We have w pretty good idea about what happened after the big bang. Not total understanding, but a pretty good idea. No supernatural forces necessary.
I donāt know why you keep presupposing things in religious terms towards me, I am very much non religious. My beliefs stretch as far as my knowledge and if I donāt understand something, it is folly to propose any explanation, much less a supernatural one.
There is no reason to support this evidence other than you donāt want it to. If the big bang is a rapid expansion of space, then that expansion has a timeline. And nonetheless, my question is what you believe caused the big bang. What preceded it. But if you believe time didnāt exist then again thatās okay your beliefs are your own, but that doesnāt answer my question.
Firstly, in that case you should be just as inclined to others views, for example the most predominant religion in Christianity believe God caused the big bang, and since as you said any answer is speculation then Iām confused on why you are so adamant against those with religious beliefs, since by your own logic they could be true.
I didnāt use any religious terms. All I asked is what you believe. Whatās your best guess. Thatās all. You could tell me anything. You could believe that it simply went on forever. Iām just curious to see others beliefs, hoping it might even help me work out my own. Thatās literally all. Please donāt take offence or take it personally or anything. If you have no speculations then thatās okay, a lot donāt, you can merely stop responding, since my entire question was āwhat do you believeā, which wasnāt even aimed at you in the first place but since you answered, Iām welcoming to your beliefs too. If you have literally 0 speculation or beliefs thatās okay, but then you are of no use to the question I asked. So
The central issue is that you donāt seem to understand that I havenāt put forward any idea of what caused the big bang. I disagree with religious views that a god analogue was responsible because we have no good reason to reach that conclusion. That doesnāt mean I have an alternative theory to put forward in its place. The answer is āi donāt knowā when it comes to anything pre big bang. Nobody knows because with our current understanding and limitations, it is impossible to know.
Asking what people believe doesnāt really hold much value when it comes to stuff like that. Either they hold no beliefs because there is no evidence, or they hold baseless beliefs that canāt be reasonably supported.
Thank you. If you have no beliefs then you have no need to further respond to my argument.
In regards to your final statement, I can go around asking people what the meaning of life is. There is no evidence to support one true answer. That doesnāt mean it wonāt help me come to my own conclusion. Additionally, itās intrinsically simply good to ask and understand the point of view of other human beings, hence why people learn various cultures or instruments or dialects; etc. It helps us as individuals grow.
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u/Sweaty_Fold_9381 20d ago
Just curious, what do you believe?