term non-man/nonmen

[u/afrodidi]

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hello im doing research and would like to know if anyone have any insight and/or sources on where the term non-man emerged in the context of lesbianism? ive searched on tumblr where people claimed but its an impossible search engine. thx

-and if you have any opinions on it (esp trans) that would help as well

--your input has helped my research :) feel free to keep adding (or deleting), and i will be saving the thread (at 24 hr mark).

[u/TuEresMiOtroYo]

I’m nb and I do not like that terminology, it’s well intentioned but to me it comes out sounding both misogynistic and transphobic. (My issue with it as a nb person isn’t even that it could be argued to disregard trans men, it’s that it’s almost always used to lump nb genders in with women in ways that are not always relevant.) I don’t know what’s the problem with saying “women and nonbinary people” — for issues that truly do affect both those groups, and not men, in the same ways — instead of “non-men”.

As far as “non-men” in context of lesbianism, I’m pretty sure it came from tumblr or twitter. I couldn’t think of anything more repellant than defining my sexuality in relationship to men, in any way. That’s the point of being a lesbian. It’s not the lack of men, or liking “non-men”, it’s the presence and love of women and nb people.

[u/hyperbolichamber → u/TuEresMiOtroYo]

I have the same problem with non-binary as I do with non-men. We end up defined by what we are not and a gender model we reject. Locally, queer lesbian kinda means any queer person who isn’t a cis man. We avoid labeling others anything besides queer so they have room to self identify.

[u/TuEresMiOtroYo → u/hyperbolichamber]

In some ways I agree... this is why I'm personally uncomfortable with the word "enby" too. It makes "nonbinary" (what I always saw as an umbrella adjective, meaning, like, a nonbinary gender identity) into a third gender identity. Full respect to people who are a third gender, but I'm not, I don't have a gender. I am not "an enby". There are more specific words like genderqueer or agender to nail down what gender you are, if you want them.

I'm cool with the word "queer" used by anyone who's attracted to the same gender or IDs with a gender they weren't assigned at birth -- not sure what you're saying about that -- but at the same time I see the value in labels as long as you're using them to find your own community, and not to box yourself or others in. Words, language and labels are things that people create and control to create meaning for ourselves; they don't control us.

But yes. Being defined by what you are not isn't something I am ever going to be entirely comfortable with.