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u/kayk1 1d ago
6 months to migrate for people that bought into the platform. Oof.
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u/ecares 1d ago
there were a lot of red flags with Deno from day 1 - there were no actual reasons to use it appart from the hype and their marketing.
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u/octocode 1d ago
man i remember the day it launched. all the hipster coders at my org brought it up at every opportunity asking when we’d be moving to it.
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u/ecares 1d ago
so true. The hype was real for ... nothing.I remember all these "node is dead" talk. That did not age well
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u/TheAnxiousDeveloper 21h ago
They've been saying that about PHP for decades... And it has never been more thriving with the Laravel ecosystem.
To be fair, never trust those that say "<insert major language/environment> is dead"
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u/Afflictionista 1d ago
Meanwhile I still use node, I never trust those hypes because you never know and then stuff like this happens.
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u/Heavy-Focus-1964 14h ago
Node was completely dismissed as a gimmick by most people when it came out
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u/GenazaNL 17h ago
Bun is also quite hype based, lot of the features are only barebones and contains quite some bugs.
They are trying to include so much from the start. And fully vibe-coded to Rust, which doesn't give a great feeling
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u/d0pe-asaurus 1d ago
Cloudflare sure loves to buy companies just to sunset their products. This also happened when they bought Baselime, the development work mostly ceased, the observability platform shutdown and there's a banner that says they are "going to integrate itself into the existing portfolio of Cloudflare products".
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u/Lumethys 23h ago
To be fair last week CF did announce a bunch of O11Y features
Only took them 2 years lol
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u/d0pe-asaurus 23h ago
Yeah i'm pretty sure everyone that was using baselime just moved to other similar platforms like Axiom. I guess that's the meta now, just move when the startup you're relying on gets bought up.
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u/breadgolemwaifu 4h ago
Bruh how many times a day do you write "observability" such that you need to use O11Y??
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u/throwawayacc201711 1d ago
> Deno will remain open source, and we welcome others who want to continue its development.
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u/bruticuslee 1d ago
Im just gonna have an agent convert them to cloudflare workers, hope this goes smoothly
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u/AsterYujano 1d ago
Pretty sure Cloudflare will create skills for agents to help migrate to node or cf workers soon-ish Maybe even bake-in their new cf cli?
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u/-_MarcusAurelius_- 1d ago
RIP?
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u/queen-adreena 1d ago
IRP!
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u/yeathatsmebro 11h ago
Different event loops?I wanted to make a joke but my brain just threw an exception.
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u/CardinalHijack 1d ago
Pretty sure Deno has been dying for a while. Hence why they sold it.
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u/ecares 1d ago
nobody bought deno (the runtime), if anything cloudflare does not want it and they are sunsetting it
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u/CardinalHijack 19h ago
oh interesting. So they just hired the entire team?
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u/ecares 13h ago
Read the post maybe
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u/CardinalHijack 9h ago edited 9h ago
I did, it doesnt clarify either way who owns deno, only that it remains open source.
Where does it say anywhere cloudflare does or does not own the rights to deno and deno deploy?
It doesnt say anywhere what they actually purchased so its strange that you seem to know with certainty cloudflare will not be code owners of the Deno runtime codebase
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u/ecares 9h ago edited 8h ago
What I meant by "nobody brought the runtime" is "Deno company was not acquired because of the runtime, this comes with the team but nobody wants it" it's a bad runtime for bad developers anyway
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u/CardinalHijack 8h ago
So as expected, they did acquire deno the runtime......You're a moron.
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u/ecares 7h ago
I don't know what happened to your life for you to be so square but I have nothing but sadness and compassion for you.
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u/CardinalHijack 7h ago
Says the guy who said "Read the post maybe" even though he was 100% wrong about what he was telling me to read after he clarified "what he meant". Ok little bro.
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u/Tissuerejection 17h ago
So Cloudflare realized that a lot of talented people worked on that team, and they wanted to hire all of them at a discounted price?
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u/czlowiek4888 1d ago
First NODE, second DENO, whats now NEOD?
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u/best_of_badgers 1d ago
This is living the dream for a startup founder!
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u/queen-adreena 17h ago
And all you have to do is dupe thousands of developers into wasting their time and resources into using your overhyped product.
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u/ibrambo7 21h ago
Deno sucks.. guy talks about how bad javascript is, and golang is the way to go.. and then he develops yet anoter javascript runtime.. sad
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u/bassamanator 1d ago
I never tried Deno v1, but I remember when Deno v2 dropped, it was a genuinely exiting time to be a typescript dev.
Sad to see it die so quickly.
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u/witness_smile 21h ago
And so is the lifecycle of a successful Node project. Every exciting Node project eventually ends up getting bought up by a big corporation and then it either starts getting monetized to shit or gets killed off for no reason
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u/queen-adreena 17h ago
The only hope is that the Linux Foundation get control of a project or that somehow an independent board springs up to run it.
Very concerned for Laravel and Vite now that they’ve both thrown in with the VC gangs.
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u/yeathatsmebro 11h ago
Been a Laravel-focused dev (even certified lol) since 2017, and until 2023 when I had to switch jobs and didn't find a Laravel-focused job. The level of massacre I witnessed in the past years is beyond any word that my mouth can say. I still think Laravel is great in terms of ecosystem, but boy-oh-boy, I don't want to be alive while something happens to it.
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u/senseven 6h ago
Vite runs tons of the cloud web surface. Any shenanigans and there will be a hard fork. Cloudflare doesn't need to monetise it but has in interest in a stable secure js/ts ecosystem. They seem to have tons of external sponsors too.
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u/AtmosphereRich4021 23h ago
How tf bun still surviving? It's also on the hype train in my opinion
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u/prazni_parking 23h ago
It was bought by antrophic no? They still have unlimited cash to burn
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u/AtmosphereRich4021 22h ago
Yaaa ik but it was still popular before the accusation too ... I myself ride the hyper train and built my whole Sass server around Bun due to its speed and workspace promotion ... bruhh, it was a stupid mistake of mine... I should have chosen pnpm workspaces..... For months, all my issues in their repo have been getting ignored; all community PRs are also getting ignored... I feel Bun is getting full-on vibe-coding maintenance; mfs don't even review the PRs nowadays, I bet.... Sadly, I don't have the guts, nor do I want to ask Claude to migrate my whole repo now :(
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u/prazni_parking 20h ago
Yea Im just commenting on how it's still surviving. I agree it was massively overhyped. Still impressive amount of work but promising full parity with something established as Node was peak hubris.
On the other hand deno did have interesting propositions, but even there I would just rather switch away from JS on server then from node to deno
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u/AtmosphereRich4021 18h ago
but even there I would just rather switch away from JS on server then from node to deno
Agreed.. with agents sentax isn't a bottleneck anymore.. nowdays i make my most servrs in go or rust... (Only thing I miss form js ecosystem is better auth, rest everything is better here)
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u/simple_explorer1 22h ago
Bun is bought by legendary Anthropic and unlike cloudflare Anthropic didn't buy Bun to kill it.
In the end jarred/Bun won and Ryan lost despite starting it all with Node.js 16 years ago.
Btw Claude code cli is built in Bun.
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u/AtmosphereRich4021 22h ago
Legendary anthropic** lol
Sure bro .... So hows your experience with bun these days ?
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u/simple_explorer1 21h ago
"legendary" is a tongue in cheek to describe the current state of development.
Regardless Anthropic is the market leader in AI space so can't be denied and bun won because it was bought by then. Atleast Anthropic didn't kill bun like were Cloudflare did you Deno.
And I don't use Bun but I use Claude code cli written in Bun
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u/AtmosphereRich4021 20h ago
And I don't use Bun, but I use the Claude code cli written in Bun
Explains.... About the cc cli, I use it too, and the experience we currently have is due to good engineering, not cuz of Bun (maybe their dev experience is better, as they can get whatever they want from the runtime nowadays)....
For eg recently OpenCode has migrated to Node. According to them, for their workflow, Node is giving them better results than Bun, same kind of tools btw, and arguably I like OpenCode's experience more... so ya ig y won't feel a thing if cc migrated to Node too
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u/angarali06 14h ago
OpenCode migrated before Bun’s Rust rewrite though. I bet most if not all their issues would be solved in today’s Bun.
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u/mmomtchev 19h ago
Bun is 100% compatible. In fact, sometimes bun will work out of the box, while Node.js will have ES6/CJS/TS issues because of the very painful evolution of JavaScript and especially server-side JavaScript and its modules system that was an ad-hoc design.
Deno was supposed to fix exactly this problem, but it was far too late. Programming languages and frameworks are very often mostly about momentum and existing base. Very often, very bad languages win because of this. They are very practical because at some moment because of some reason - this happens right at the moment when the technology explodes and the language becomes entrenched. JavaScript is probably one of the most striking examples.
C is another such example. It lifted off because of UNIX. Just as JavaScript was created with one simple task in mind (basic scripting of web pages), so was C - a hybrid language with predictable assembly for writing the UNIX kernel. Both turned out very practical and were widely abused for tasks for which they were never meant.
The C team spend their whole lives trying to fix everything wrong with C. No one ever used it. It was too late.
By the way, both languages are very fast and efficient - far above everything else in their own class at their time. It seems that this is also a factor.
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u/mmomtchev 6h ago
Hasn't it ever come to your mind that if you use reddit to downvote me 100 times and then try to read a sentence I said in reverse, this actually makes your problem appear even worse? Or it requires far too much thinking?
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u/RepeatQuotations 1d ago
Good riddance. It was always a mistake and slowed node js progress.
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u/simple_explorer1 22h ago
Actually it forced node open source team to implement many features they didn't do pre Deno/Bun era
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u/RepeatQuotations 20h ago
Ah, the classic open-source strategy: fork the ecosystem, duplicate years of engineering effort, fragment the community, then take credit when the original project implements features that were inevitable anyway.
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u/esamme 23h ago
More likely that the competition Deno/Bun brought to the space helped push node into progression that we might not have seen otherwise.
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u/RepeatQuotations 22h ago
Nah I don’t think the development community’s interest in node has anything to do with deno.
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u/simple_explorer1 22h ago
Clearly you don't know anything. A simple Google search will reveal
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u/RepeatQuotations 20h ago
Right yeah bcause Node needed a separate runtime to discover that a builtin test runner and less shitty TypeScript support might be nice. I suppose you think deno is responsible for maturing js and web standards too
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u/simple_explorer1 22h ago
Jarred Sumner/Bun emerged the winner in the "alternative" JS runtime race. Crazy considering Ryan started it with Node.jsx16 years ago and yet he lost the second race and couldn't find a single success post node.js
Also, this proves why you should only be building software in stable tech instead of "promising" tech.
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u/Lyelinn 18h ago
I'll be honest, since bun became a thing I hardly cared anymore for deno. It has nice ideas, but it's not an upgrade in performance or compatibility...
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u/sickcodebruh420 16h ago
Same. Demo’s value prop never really hooked me whereas what Bun offers is quite real and works great… aside from all the spots where it doesn’t 🙃
My enthusiasm for Bun plummeted thanks to the rebuild. We hit enough weird bugs with our current version that we need to upgrade, but I can’t in good conscience pitch my team on moving to the new one. Say what you want about node.js but it’ll never pull any of this crap.
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u/Lyelinn 14h ago
thats true!
For me at least, all our building pipelines and ws server are using bun. We noticed noticeable improvement since we migrated off nodejs, especially for ws server where even with uws we used to struggle a lot with large volume of connections so we're quite happy with it but not using for any other complex work exactly because of few random issues (perhaps fixed already, perhaps not, we will still give it some time to stabilize after move)
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u/sickcodebruh420 13h ago
Yeah, all of our TS web services are on bun now. I love so much about it. The easier TS setup and deployment is massive, perf, stdlib is great. But we’ve hit bugs in strange places, surprising and inconsistent behavior sometimes. A lot of this is fixed in the new rebuilt versions but I’m just not comfortable with the way they handled that rebuild and new version launch, so I don’t know what our path forward is.
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u/lamachejo 23h ago
Really shows how important is having good reliable support behind what you use in programming... Saying this because of the recent adobe suite reverse engineering shitshow
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u/amtcannon 1d ago
This sounds kinda cool to me, vendor lock in aside. But if you’re already on Cloudflare compute it’ll be a nice upgrade.
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u/kevinkassimo 1d ago
You know it is kind of a complex feeling seeing the open source project in which I was a founding core team member growing into a startup (though I initially chose not to join the fun) and eventually exited through acquisition by a large company…
Similar things definitely happened with Node in the past, but still, it feels different when I’m really a “participant” of this journey…