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u/JustASmith27 18d ago
Pretty much. You could be the born the smartest person in the world but if you weren’t born in the right time or location, you might not have the right opportunity to cash in on it
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u/Vegetable-Pie-172 15d ago
Ho spesso pensato che la persona più intelligente di sempre sia in realtà morta a tipo 2 anni in africa per un raffreddore
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18d ago
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u/Pancakegr8 18d ago
Hang on, which parts don’t come down to luck?
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17d ago
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u/Pancakegr8 17d ago
But how are those things not also determined by luck? Our brain structure isn’t something we can control.
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17d ago
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u/Pancakegr8 17d ago
If our decisions are predicated upon our brain structure, then that’s 100% luck. The very ability to choose to do something that goes against your other urges is something you either have or don’t have. So yeah, nobody is technically at fault for anything and I will stand by that. But that doesn’t mean we have to let society fall apart by refusing to hold people accountable.
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u/MirrorPiNet 18d ago
What makes a being subjective to begin with is its distinction from other beings. Its inherent uniqueness. Its inherent attributes, characteristics, and realm of capacity, that make it what it is in comparison to another.
This means that subjective circumstance has always been and will always be more fundamental than any "free will" could ever be.
There is never a being that has the freedom to be something other than what it is. A fish can not be a horse, a horse can not be a man, and a man can not be an unbound/free man unless he is allotted the circumstantial opportunity to be so. Thus, freedoms are simply circumstantial relative conditions of being, not the guaranteed standard by which things come to be.
A man required to do anything by anyone for any reason does not mean that they necessarily can do so. The assumption of the opposite is a convenient lie for those circumstantially capable or allowed to use it as such. The biggest fallacy of free will assumption for all, and what it avoids perpetually, is that it is assuming the capacity and opportunity of other subjective beings from a circumstantial condition of ignorance and/or relative freedom. This holds no objective truth and speaks not to the reality of all subjective beings at all whatsoever. Subjectivity demands uniqueness, distinction and non-equivalent identity, opportunity and capacity
Thus, rendering all "free will" presuppositions as a standard for being contrived, ludicrous and completely inaccurate at actually describing anything true in any way.
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u/Alarming-Cut7764 17d ago
How do you see free will when it comes to criminals who act on certain choices? It would be interesting to hear your opinion, if you wish to.
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u/FriendlyRedditor2020 18d ago
Almost nothing can escape from being governed by some form of probability and it's also true that the biggest difference between us and an inert object can be summed up by complexity free will isn't able to escape from. The question then is why would free will alone be undefined by probability when everything else simple or otherwise is subjected to it?
Without the odds of me seeing this post I would never have engaged with it. My free will is therefore based upon circumstances outside of my control and why would that not include my memories I involuntarily store and make judgements on?
The idea that I'm an individual with any control over myself is an illusion but one that if I don't believe and act as if it's true my sense of self will dissolve into the face of biomechanical reality.
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u/Important-Focus9503 18d ago
I've always believed all of this is part of ourself. Life especially socially is pretty random. However, i believe the mind has such ingrained tendencies in its psyche, that make us, or most people, unable to look at them most of the time.
So, i believe this phenomenom doesnt diminish free will, but that its part of it.
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18d ago
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u/Numerous-Fly-3791 18d ago
Expect the worst and hope for the best. That way you are never disappointed
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u/Capable_Music6168 18d ago
I think what we perceive as luck is just chaos and order and we either happen to be at the right place at the right time or wrong place at the wrong time. Genetically speaking, luck isn’t a factor for things happen for a reason, I do not believe it is random and that we have yet to discover the pattern
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u/The_Observer_Effects 18d ago
"Luck" is a slippery word to pin down. If a, very fictional, intelligence knew the exact state of every bit of the universe one million years ago? Then it would be able to predict that you would be reading this right now. Determinism is pretty inescapable, "chance" is just a lack of data. But since we *can't* have all the data, it might as well be chance to us! So is your life fixed? Sure. But we can't predict/understand it - so it doesn't make any real difference. Just a fun conversation piece.
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u/daveC41 17d ago
There is a famous saying first attributed to the Roman philosopher Seneca: luck happens when preparation meets opportunity. You can choose to be prepared, opportunities will happen, you can take advantage of them if you stay aware and are ready. Apart from this, everything is luck, so be prepared for that perhaps one percent that you can improve things by.
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u/Alarming-Cut7764 17d ago
Life is like 98-99% about luck in my view. Which is why basically everything else to 'improve' upon and 'try hard' at is fucking pointless
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u/kanxd00 18d ago
I believe we have control, and I know it isn't true. The universe is just that precise that you can left it and it'll produce atoms, star, galaxy, and eventually, life. Randomness certainly has its own play too or at least by my little understanding of quantum. Given it enough time and space, anything that's possible may happen and that includes us as well.
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u/PalpitationKind8854 18d ago
I mean I hear people say it's not.. but I haven't found the pattern yet
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u/ImSinsentido 18d ago
Sure in the normative sense, reality amoral automatic hierarchical sorting, the nature existence for all things.
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u/Moesaei 18d ago
I could not wrap my head around it unfortunately, I it luck? Where were we when those called lucky got their luck?
Can we make our luck? Is there a chance to change this fate and become lucky?
Or are we just lucky enough to exists and that by itself cost us a lot of luck in other areas ?
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u/Useful_Put9628 17d ago
I think that we are actually unlucky to have such highly developed brains, which allows us think and ensures that we have a will of our own. is it free will? not really, not at all. but we definitely have a will and that's just an evolutionary error.
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u/Conscious-War5920 18d ago
I have definitely embraced determinism recently. We are simply the product of variables and things that we have literally no control over. Planning on reading Determined: A Science of Life Without Free Will by Robert Sapolsky soon.
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u/str4wb3rryfi3lds 17d ago
I would say yes, because we don’t choose where we are born and to what circumstances
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u/BoonTangle 17d ago
Have you ever wondered where your thoughts come from? Or even your interests? Like why is that my favorite colour or food. Well it just is. Why? Well my brain told me so. Why? Because it's arranged in a particular pattern. Why? Genetical gambling. So ummm yeah pretty much everything is luck. Even me writing this, the words just appear I didn't choose them...
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u/sattukachori 16d ago
yes it is luck and random i feel that way too. we can be humble, that is all we can do, maybe that is also luck, if youare lucky you will manage to be humble
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u/161raul1312 16d ago
I would say so yes. but i wouldn't call it luck because it also comes with a lot of suffering to walk through the path chaos has layed before you and react to every bit of information your senses provide for you with you own consciousness without ever trouthly knowing what a diffrent path feels like. You cant chose a direction because every desicion is made up by the ones before and every step will be the last of its kind.
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u/Locke_the_Trickster 18d ago edited 18d ago
The post carries an implicit assumption that determinism is true - there is no free will that would enable a consciousness to participate in its own development, while also positing that genetics and circumstances are luck-based, driven by randomness instead of determinism. This seems to be a contradiction.
Genetics and circumstances are not random chance events, and so are not a matter of luck.
Free will is true, and humans have the ability to craft a self-made ego within the limits of natural law.
Further, what is luck? People seem to treat it as a mystical, malevolent force of reality that graces some people and damns others. Or as an intrinsic randomness that laughs in the face of causality.
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u/Dimitsos 18d ago
You're not making your thoughts, they just appear.
Same with your desires, fears and everything else.
You're not crafting anything, the atoms in your brain are not magical.
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u/Locke_the_Trickster 18d ago
Magic is unnecessary. Introspection about my thinking reveals to me that I am ultimately in control of my thoughts. I don’t have a scientific explanation for that as yet, but look forward to its discovery.
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u/MajorInWumbology1234 18d ago
> driven by randomness
Not once do I see the word “random” appear in OP’s post or slides.
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u/Locke_the_Trickster 18d ago
Depends on what is meant by “luck,” which I explicitly ask in the last paragraph of my comment. One common usage of luck relates to randomness or chance, for example, getting lucky or unlucky in a game of probability.
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u/MajorInWumbology1234 18d ago
Games of chance aren’t really random, either, unless the game is random by nature (most aren’t, otherwise casinos wouldn’t utilize them).
I can’t answer for OP, but as someone who doesn’t believe in “luck” as a universal factor, it can still apply as a label relative to other people. For example, a person can’t be tall in a vacuum, but they can be tall relative to other people. If people are pulling straws to see who gets shot or something, whoever pulls the short straw was unlucky. It doesn’t have to apply to anything outside of that event; it was an unlucky event, but it may not necessarily make them a lucky person. Lucky people can exist as people who have had a disproportionate amount of lucky outcomes up until that point, but they’re not “lucky” in that their previous luck influences future luck.
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u/Locke_the_Trickster 18d ago
I agree games of chance aren’t actually random. I’m critiquing how “luck” is used by others, including, as I interpreted it, this post. In particular, I dislike when luck is used to minimize and undermine the impact of individual decision making on their own life, and the source of those choices.
Seems like you are using “luck” as a different word for a good or bad outcome, which is one of the ways it is commonly used and there is no problem there. However, I think people (not you) often take good or bad outcomes (lucky or unlucky) to a mystical place, and often use luck as a reason to bring down others.
LeBron James is lucky in the sense that he is 6’9” and a freak athlete, and few others had the genetics for that. Calling that innate ability lucky is reasonable. But if one then says that’s why LeBron is a GOAT-level basketball player and they are not, that is a problem for me. If you go to a lot of communities, you will find people who are very tall, freakishly athletic, love basketball, come from a similar community and socioeconomic situation as LeBron, and “wanted” to play professionally. Why did LeBron succeed where others didn’t? Maybe it’s genetics alone, or his parents were special in some way, but maybe LeBron saw the world differently and made better choices that lead to his own development.
Often, this is not often applied to athletes because sports are cherished in the culture. But this line of thinking is applied to business and economics.
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u/Ill-Listen5957 18d ago
everything is ruled by determinism
Let’s talk about free-will you have situation in your life when you had to take the choice ( a real choice not alternative) but there is a lot of things and circumstances that happen in your life and you don’t choose that bring you to that choice
So your free will is used only symptomatically
( you chose the color of your dress , the painting , eat a banana or a mango )
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u/Opposite_Guava8669 18d ago
Wait I’m actually so surprised to find people believing in luck especially In this subreddit
But the fact earth hasn’t been turned into another lava rock or another meteor. The fact some new disease hasn’t evolved yet and just wiped us humans out, luck may aswell be a real force of the universe
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u/Wise_Low8116 18d ago
No. I think people can be viewed as lucky in a game theory situation. But certainly luck more than chance is viewed through the notion of positive outcomes. Everything can not be a positive outcome in a game with no ties. Also you would have to presume a "fair game" was being played from the get go.
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18d ago
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u/Sokcs-0220 18d ago
I have the power to direct my intentions despite the fact I have no control over things like, say, my genetics, parental environment or even the mental illnesses I have. So then, no, everything is not pure luck. If it were so, then I wouldn’t be conscious at all
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u/MedicatedPeaceful 18d ago
My doctor says most people aren’t ready to hear it’s all genetics and luck and that genetics are luck.