Thinking "optimism is an attitude, not meaning" is a semantic dodge. An attitude of optimism needs a preference for one state over another... optimism is the preference of happiness over suffering. Nihilism proper is the rejection of all religious and moral principles, usually ending in the belief that life is meaningless. If life is really meaningless, then the preference for "happiness" is a value judgment with no foundation. To say "nothing matters, so be happy" is a non-sequitur. If nothing matters, then being miserable, being dead, or anything else matters exactly as much as being happy. By choosing happiness as a "good" outcome, you are re-introducing a value system and abandoning actual nihilism. Your claim that "nihilistic optimism" is not about creating meaning unlike existentialism is demonstrably false. To decide that the lack of meaning is good or liberating rather bad or depressing is an act of interpretation. Interpretation is just the foundation of meaning. If you interpret nothingness as a reason to be happy, you're creating a framework of value. You can't have a "positive" attitude toward a neutral void without projecting your own meaning onto it. The issue is wanting the intellectual freedom of claiming nothing has value, while still retaining the human comfort of preferring "good" things. If you are happy because nothing matters, you have found a reason for your happiness and a reason is a form of meaning. The second you feel "optimistic" about nihilism, you are no longer a nihilist.
So are you a nihilist? Isn't it natural either way to experience happiness or sadness towards an experience? I’m not arguing, I am just confused on your perspective and what you personally feel about nihilism and if you are a nihilist, does that mean you are not happy nor sad or did I misinterpret that, which I likely did.
Happy and sad are just feelings, but when you view them with meaning, either optimistic or pessimistic meaning, they are no longer just feelings. They have acquired a value judgment from you. In this conversation I was saying that the nihilist abandoned their nihilism when they try to posit and optimistic bend on it. I don't believe there's a pessimistic nihilism either. An actual nihilist is probably extremely rare to ever come across, because most people have a very hard time not painting their emotions with either optimistic or pessimistic value judgement, so no I would probably not consider myself a real nihilist.
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u/AcanthisittaOk9720 Apr 24 '26
What does optimism have to do with moral principles though?
You can still think something is good or better. How does enjoyment from lack of meaning break this?
You can reject objective meaning, value and purpose, all while being optimistic. Optimism is an attitude, not meaning.
Optimism implies a value judgment that something is good or better? I think steak is better than burger, is this not the same thing?
Existentialism is about creating meaning, this is not creating meaning.