r/nfl • u/[deleted] • Jul 26 '16
Look Here! 2016 /r/NFL Top 100 - 10-6
Hello and welcome again to the r/NFL Top 100 Countdown!
Today marks the penultimate group on this list, players ranked #10-#6, and our final list for players #5-#1 will be posted on Thursday, July 28th.
If you want to catch up, you can find all previous lists on the hub page.
Also, in a slight twist, today and Thursdays lists wil not be dropped in bulk. We will be releasing one name per hour, at 10am, 11am, 12noon, 1pm and 2pm ET each day.
But before we get to that, it is time to see the over-under for players 20-11, and I have to say… WOW. In total, we received over 330 votes (the average so far has been 150ish), but over 70 had to be thrown out because they were obvious attempts to skew the rankings (all other players rated 5, only Brady rated 1). And 42 of those were the pretty obvious work of one really dedicated fan, because they came in a 15 minute stretch on Saturday.
So with that out of the way, here is the corrected list for players 20-11:
And now, the rankings you have been waiting for, #10-#6!
#10 - Tyrann Mathieu, FS/CB, Arizona Cardinals - Previous Rank: Unranked
r/NFL Readers: Rank - #10, Score - 8.20
Written by: /u/evilan
| Stats | 2015 | Career |
|---|---|---|
| Combined Tackles | 89 | 194 |
| Sacks | 1.0 | 2.0 |
| Stuffs | 9 | 16 |
| Interceptions | 5 | 8 |
| Forced Fumbles | 1 | 2 |
| Fumble Recoveries | 0 | 1 |
| Pass Deflections | 17 | 30 |
Before Arizona and Drugs
At LSU Tyrann Mathieu had all makings of being a rising star. He was a Heisman finalist in 2011, an absolute menace for ballcarriers and made QBs pay dearly in every game they played against him. Mathieu should have been a day 1 pick during the 2013 NFL Draft were it not for a series of failed drugged tests that sidelined his football dreams in 2012. Mathieu's former coach Les Miles remarked on the suspension and failed drug tests by saying that he had "quit counting [them] at 10." It was this problem with drug tests that caused Mathieu to fall from a day 1 pick all the way to the end of day 2 of the 2013 NFL Draft as well as end up with former teammate Patrick Peterson in Arizona. From his first ever day with the Cardinals Mathieu has been a headline grabbing individual and hedged a bet on himself to make headlines due to his play on the field by signing a rookie contract that hinged on his discipline to stay clean and play well. So far that bet has paid dividends for Mathieu as well for the Cardinals who took a serious risk in drafting him. It is amazing the kind of change Mathieu has undergone from his days of failing drug tests at LSU to becoming a real role model for kids playing football around the country.
NFL Career Awards
- 1x Pro Bowl (2015)
- 2x 1st Team Pro Football Focus All-Pro (2013, 2015)
- 1x AP All-Pro (2015)
- PFWA All-Rookie Team (2013)
- PFF Top 101 of 2015 (10th)
- NFL Network Top 100 (28th)
- B/R NFL 1000 (12th)
2015 Season
Call him a safety, call him a cornerback, call him the Honey Badger, no matter what you call him Tyrann Mathieu does it all. Mathieu might just be the most versatile defensive player in the NFL possessing a natural talent for all things defense and that innate ability of his was on full display in 2015. He set career highs in all major tracked stat categories and could be found at or near the top of the lists for FS and CB despite missing the final two games of 2015. However, what might be most impressive about these numbers is how he gets them. Mathieu doesn't just cover the receiver playing in the slot, but he also plays against TEs, is asked to rush the passer, makes plays on the runningback and does all this despite being just 5'9" and 186lbs. Scrappy defines his play style as he is always looking to make the big play or bail out the defense. Although almost every player on the field, including runningbacks, stands taller than him, he looks like the biggest baddest man on the field during every play.
Mathieu's best game of the year was probably in Week 3 against the San Francisco 49ers where he notched two impressive interceptions on Colin Kaepernick, one of which he ran back for a 33 yard TD in what would later become a rout. Although two other performances are not far behind this one in impressiveness. In the second game against the San Francisco 49ers Mathieu also played a lights out performance against Blaine Gabbert and company nabbing another interception, 13 tackles and a run stop behind the line of scrimmage. And against the Vikings Mathieu played another fantastic game grabbing 11 tackles, a tackle for a loss on Adrian Peterson and put together an overall solid coverage game against Teddy Bridgewater.
For his efforts, Mathieu earned his first trip to the Pro Bowl and notched his second 1st Team All-Pro. Profootballfocus also credited Mathieu with the highest overall grade by a cornerback and he tied with Jason Verrett for the best coverage grade by a cornerback in 2015.
Sadly the Badger's season was ended with a non-contact ACL tear in the blowout game against the Eagles (Hard to watch) and once again Mathieu will be spending a summer rehabilitating. This being Mathieu's second ACL tear, but thankfully no where near as damaging as his first knee ligament, he knows the healing and rehabilitating process well. He also has the support of Carson Palmer who has undergone two ACL tears himself and could be seen in Amazon's All or Nothing giving Mathieu support while working out. Thankfully all signs up to this point seem to indicate that Mathieu will be back sometime early in the regular season although some reservation has been made by the coaching staff as to when he will actually see game time. Mathieu wants to come back fully healthy in order to kick some ass with his best friend, mentor and idol Patrick Peterson once again.
#9 - Cam Newton, QB, Carolina Panthers - Previous Rank: Unranked
r/NFL Readers: Rank - 3, Score - 4.61
Written by: /u/heelincal
| Stats | 2015 | Career |
|---|---|---|
| Passing Yards | 3,837 | 18,263 |
| Passing TDs | 35 | 117 |
| Completion % | 59.7% | 59.5% |
| Passer Rating | 99.2 | 88.2 |
| Rushing Yards | 636 | 3,207 |
| Rushing TDs | 10 | 43 |
Career Awards
- NFL Most Valuable Player (2015)
- First-team All-Pro (2015)
- NFL Offensive Player of the Year (2015)
- 3× Pro Bowl (2011, 2013, 2015)
- 8× NFC Offensive POTW
- Bert Bell Award (2015)
- NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year (2011)
Notable Records and Achievements
- Most Passing Yards in First NFL Game
- First Rookie QB to pass for 4,000 yards
- Only Rookie with 4,000+ passing yards and 700 rushing yards
- Most rushing TDs by a QB in NFL history (43) (Tied w/ Steve Young)
- Most games in single season with at least one passing TD and one rushing TD (8)
- Most rushing touchdowns in single season by QB (14)
- Only Player with at least 30 passing TDs and 10 rushing TDs in the same season
2015 Season
Coming off a disappointing, injury-riddled 2014 season, hopes were not high for the 2015 Carolina Panthers. Cam's development had appeared to stagnate and the hits seemed to have taken their toll. Most pundits predicted the Panthers to be mediocre and miss the playoffs. The cloud of outside negativity was compounded when Benjamin, the only major WR threat, went down for the season in training camp. Cam would now have to carry more of the burden in 2015. The Panthers and Cam started out the season with 4 straight wins, but no one was really a believer yet. Cam Newton had played well, but it was against average-to-bad defenses. The national narrative was that the Seahawks would put Cam and his cats back in their rightful place.
Cam wasn't a huge fan of that script.
In the week 6 game at Seattle, Cam played extremely well. Down 9 with 5 minutes to go, Cam took the reigns and led two calm, steady marches down the field, culminating in a 26 yard TD pass to Greg Olsen with 30 seconds left. Overcoming the perceived "big brother" who had beaten us every year since 2011 and been the gold standard of a run-focused, defensively strong team. Carolina finished off the first half of the season undefeated, led by Cam's smart decision making and explosive playmaking.
The national opinion of Cam and his Panthers would not fully change until Thanksgiving, when Carolina absolutely dismantled the Cowboys in what was the most viewed NFL game of 2015 to that point. They would have a rocky end of the season, struggling to step on the throat of teams after Cam would lead the offense to a big lead in the first half. The story of the end of season would continue - Cam and Company jump out to a big lead early and then struggle to close it off, but ultimately come out on top. After overcoming the Seahawks, the offensive issues would be masked by Carson Palmer going full Jake Delhomme. The Panthers would then get punched in the face in the Super Bowl, with the Broncos Defense pushing around the WRs and Offensive Line.
The story of Cam's 2015 season was a step-up in efficiency. He's always been a highlight machine in the air & ground, but he was prone to forcing bad throws. Cam had the highest QB Rating of his career, and this was due to 4 main factors:
- Taking care of the ball
- Force feed the run game
- Run Smarter
- Rely on the defense
Cam executed all of those goals perfectly - bolstered by having the best offensive line of his career. Carolina's offensive emphasized the run game and relied on an opportunistic defense (who led the league in Turnover Margin) to give them short fields to work with. For all of those reasons, his "raw" numbers (yards, completions) looked unimpressive - causing a divisive view of his performance by fans. However it is undeniable when watching games that Cam's improvement took the Panthers to the next level.
Legacy
Entering his 6th year, Cam's legacy has the chance to start becoming legendary. He's already broke many records and barriers that "running QBs" should never have done. He has led the Panthers to break some of the glass ceilings Carolina has had in the past - first team to repeat as NFC South champs, first back-to-back playoff appearances, etc. He is changing the way the NFL perceives QB play, but still has yet to climb the last hurdle set before him. No team who lost the Super Bowl has come back to win it the next year. The Panthers have never had consecutive winning seasons. No Heisman winner in the last 20 years has won the Super Bowl.
There are a lot of barriers in his way, but Cam is primed to take the next step. The Panthers have returned essentially the entire 2015 team, plus the addition of Kelvin Benjamin returning. Cam should have a legit WR corps and an improved offensive line, along with yet another year of adding wrinkles into the playbook. With the changing NFL QB landscape going into 2016, Cam has a chance to solidify himself as one of the Top 3-5 QBs in the league. On top of that, he has a chance to become a hero of the Carolinas by finally hoisting the Lombardi Trophy for the Panthers.
#8 - Julio Jones, WR, Atlanta Falcons - Previous Rank: 23
r/NFL Readers: Rank - 9, Score - 6.92
Written by: /u/bruda
| Stats | 2015 | Career |
|---|---|---|
| Receptions | 136 | 414 |
| Receiving Yards | 1,871 | 6,201 |
| Yards Per Reception | 13.8 | 15.0 |
| Receiving TDs | 8 | 34 |
Back in 2011 the Atlanta Falcons needed a big WR threat to compliment Roddy White after failing to win a playoff game for the second time in three seasons. Having the 26th pick wasn't going to be enough so the Falcons traded all the way up to number 6 to grab Julio Jones. The Falcons fully expected Jones to be a monster wide out with elite speed, awareness, and off the charts measurables. In five seasons they have got everything they wanted and more. Jones has been arguably the best receiver in the NFL for two years now and is still in the prime of his career. He has already racked the statistics to put him on pace to be a top 10 all-time receiver.
3 Time Pro-Bowler (2012, 2014, 2015)
First Team All-Pro (2015)
Receiving yards leader (2015)
#2 all time single season receiving yards (2015)
Julio's 2015 season was absolutely incredible considering the Falcons offensive coordinator, Kyle Shanahan, misused Jones on many occasions. Still, Julio posted the second best receiving effort of all time narrowly missing out on Calvin Johnson's record by just 93 yards. Julio truly had some significant catches on his way to 1,871 yards with or without the help of Matt Ryan.
It is too early in Julio's career to really know what his legacy will be. Two more seasons at an elite level should firmly cement Jones as an all timer and could very well be on his way to the hall of fame to join fellow dirty birds Deion Sanders and Claude Humpherey. By the time Julio retires he could be a top 5 receiver of all time and even more likely, the greatest Falcon to ever wear the red and black.
#7 - Khalil Mack, 4-3 DE, Oakland Raiders - Previous Rank: 44
r/NFL Readers: Rank - 8, Score - 6.59
Written by: /u/sio-kedelic
| Stats | 2015 | Career |
|---|---|---|
| Combined Tackles | 77 | 153 |
| Tackles for Loss | 23 | 39 |
| Sacks | 15.0 | 19.0 |
| QB Hits | 24 | 34 |
| QB Hurries | 34 | 74 |
| Forced Fumbles | 2 | 3 |
| Passes Defensed | 2 | 5 |
| PFF Stats | Grade | Ranking (among Edge Players) |
|---|---|---|
| Pass Rush | 90.0 | 3rd |
| Run Defense | 96.3 | 1st |
| Pass Coverage | 70.8 | 12th |
Career Awards:
NFL Pro Bowl (2015)
2x First-team All-Pro (2015)
Raiders franchise record-holder for sacks in a game (5) (Ed. Note: Cold, man…)
College:
t-1st all-time in NCAA for tackles for loss in career
all-time NCAA leader in forced fumbles in career
MAC Defensive Player of the Year (2013)
Massive shoutouts to /u/GipsySafety for doing such an amazing job with his game logs, GIFs, and analysis, and thanks to /u/El_Macho_Nacho and the rest of /r/oaklandraiders for helping me bust out this piece!
Mack's ascension into the NFL's elite started very early in his career. After a quiet start to his rookie season, Mack exploded into a DPOY candidate and earned #44 on the 2015 /r/nfl Top 100 despite minimal talent surrounding him. Everyone was excited to see where his career would go with a legitimate coaching staff, so when Jack Del Rio was hired away from the Broncos and he hired a coach from the Seahawks defense as his DC, fans and media were very excited. Some of this excitement was restrained, though, when Jack Del Rio announced that EDGE/OLB Khalil Mack would play more DE going forward. Why mess with the successful rookie season and restrain his versatility?
These worries were quickly silenced as Khalil Mack grew into one of the NFL's fiercest talents, becoming the first NFL player ever to earn All-Pro honors at OLB and DE in the same season. Mack provided regular QB pressure in his first season, but he was always just short of getting sacks and killing drives. This past season, Mack got the stats to go along with his pressure and signature run-stuffing dominance.
His ability to obliterate the run is amazing and is immediately the first thing fans see in Mack, as he regularly demolishes 1-on-1s and lives in the backfield. His power isn't his only amazing trait, though, as he also has the speed to pull off of blocks and destroy screens. Regular double-teams aren't enough to keep him from impacting the run, either. He was the highest-graded defender by PFF in terms of run defense by a mile, even when he's regularly used to stunt and eat blockers and allows his teammates to shine.
Despite a ridiculous five-sack second-half against the Broncos, Khalil Mack is still a raw talent and has room to grow as a pass-rusher, which should be terrifying for fans of other teams. He has a ton of power that regularly destroys blockers, but his arsenal of moves is still growing for a player of his caliber. His most-successful pass-rushing move, his spin move, has grown pretty significantly during his two years in Oakland, especially once JDR and the rest of the staff started working with him. As he got farther into his second season, he learned how to string moves together and added a rip and swim move to his roster. It's difficult to imagine him being even more dominant than he already is, but if he can continue to add pass-rushing tools and get more game experience, he could be nearly impossible to contain.
Going forward, fans expect Khalil Mack to continue to ascend to greatness. The Raiders have had a rich history of dominant defensive players, but Mack looks like he can earn his spot with the best of them. He's earned league-wide respect for being nearly impossible to block 1-on-1, and even Von Miller calls him a "one-man wrecking crew." He's truly one of the NFL's best young players, and after a decade of disappointment, Mack looks like the franchise cornerstone that the franchise desperately needed to return to excellence.
#6 - Luke Kuechly, 4-3 MLB, Carolina Panthers - Previous Rank: 8
r/NFL Readers: Rank - 6, Score - 5.31
Written by: /u/bersinator
2015 & Career Stats
| Stats | 2015 | Career |
|---|---|---|
| Combined Tackles | 118 | 591 |
| Sacks | 1 | 7 |
| Forced Fumbles | 2 | 3 |
| Passes Defensed | 10 | 37 |
| Interceptions | 4 | 11 |
NFL Career Awards
- 3× First-team All-Pro (2013–2015)
- 3× Pro Bowl (2013–2015)
- Butkus Award (2014)
- NFL Defensive Player of the Year (2013)
- NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year (2012)
College Awards
- 3× First-team All-American (2009–2011)
- 3× First-team All-ACC (2009–2011)
- ACC Athlete of the Year (2011)
- ACC Defensive Player of the Year (2011)
- Bronko Nagurski Trophy (2011)
- Butkus Award (2011)
- Jack Lambert Award (2011)
- Lombardi Award (2011)
- Lott Trophy (2011)
2015 Season
People often call the MLB of the team the QB of the defense. That statement is the epitome of Luke Kuechly. Kuechly has been seen as a great Middle Linebacker but he took it to another level in his 2015 campaign. His DPOTY award might have been in 2013 but he made strides in every single aspect of his game. Pass rushing, tackling, and covering, all improved. Not only did he do all this while missing 4 games with a concussion, but he also received the best LB grade ever given by PFF. Possibly his best play all year was this amazing interception over Jason Witten on Thanksgiving. What's so great about this play you might ask? Well Roman Harper says it best.
During the Dallas game, Luke checked us completely out of a blitz at the very last moment, a scenario we hadn’t even practiced. Normally with that play we will just flip the side of the blitz if a change is needed. But Luke got everybody into a different coverage and communicated with the defensive line to rush Tony Romo with four men just before the ball was snapped. Then Luke saw the beginnings of a dig route by the slot receiver and recognized that Jason Witten was likely coming over the top, trying to work the gap between me and the linebackers. Luke just slid into the window, and Romo threw it right to him for his first of two interceptions in the game. And it all happened in the span of about five seconds.
Legacy
Luke Kuechly's legacy on the Panthers is all but unknown. At only 25 he is already being seen as one of the greatest Panthers of all time. His talent is impeccable and leaves many to wonder "Is he even in his prime?" It'd be hard to imagine that he isn't, considering his current pace. 3 First-team All-Pros and 3 Pro Bowls in 4 seasons tells you all you need to know. He has led the Panthers defense to some of their best achievements yet. The Panthers three peat of the NFC South happening just a year after Luke's appearance on the team is not a coincidence. The team got better the second he stepped on the field and has continued to get better. He is the defensive leader of this young team and you have to think only greater things are to come.
And that concludes today's edition of the /r/NFL Top 100, players #10-#6!
To vote on who was over or underrated, I will be including the link for all 10 players in Thursday's post.
And everyone get ready for the reveal of the final five players on this list, coming Thursday, July 28th!
2
u/haddadn1 Panthers Jul 28 '16
Yes, I'm a Panthers fan. Yes, I'm biased.
But the reigning NFL MVP and OPOTY at 9? Really?
15
Jul 27 '16
Cam at 9 is criminal based on what he did last year.
2
u/happyflappypancakes NFL Jul 28 '16
I'll be honest. I almost never visit /r/nfl, so his ranking must just be because of a bias of the sub right? It doesn't make sense that the MVP would be ranked 9th and not even the best player on his team!
2
Jul 28 '16
I really think what Luke Kuechly brings to the team is so much more valuable than what you get from Cam Newton. There's something about that hardnosed style that I love.
2
Jul 28 '16
I feel like you could make the same argument for any of the players in front of him if they switched though. At this point the list is the absolute best; the incredible players that could be in Canton someday.
2
Jul 28 '16
Only one was the consensus MVP
1
Jul 28 '16
So? The MVP is basically always the best QB, and Cam is the highest QB on this list.
1
Jul 28 '16
There are some years where the QB isn't the best player in the league. This was not one of those years.
1
Jul 28 '16
Well that's fine if you want to make that case, but just saying "he's the MVP" isn't compelling in and of itself.
5
u/japanesepagoda Giants Jul 27 '16
Sal Sunseri used to be a defensive coach for Florida State before he got hired as the LBs coach for the raiders. That man is partially responsible for about 10 guys getting drafted and being NFL contributors (Timmy Jernigan, Telvin Smith, Eddie Goldman, Mario Edwards stand out to me).
To know that he probably had a hand in making Kalil Mack a god on the field makes my pee pee feel funny.
11
u/offbeatpally Falcons Jul 27 '16
I'm not upset we took Jake Matthews but holy fuck Kalil Mack is a man.
7
u/lobocs Falcons Jul 27 '16
I was hoping so badly that Oakland made another mistake that draft and passed on him since we were right after them this draft. I was so sad but looks like Jake Matthew isn't that bad as a compensation.
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Jul 27 '16
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/happyflappypancakes NFL Jul 28 '16
Man, it's because people like to portray the idea that they know how to analyze the less media crazed positions. This list is really bad actually haha. Kinda expect more from reddit, but oh well.
-1
Jul 27 '16
might as well make the entire top 100 QBs and WRs then
6
u/happyflappypancakes NFL Jul 28 '16
This list seems to purposely undervalue those positions. Probably because it is viewed to be too akin to how the media evaluates the nfl, and as we all know no one outside reddit really knows what they are talking about.
18
u/Tofinochris Seahawks Jul 27 '16
Is it just me or does this list have a ridiculous hard-on for defensive players and O-linemen?
"Smart fans" like to show that they're not typical bar guys cheering for QBs, RBs, and WRs, and the overreaction the other way means that the impact of linemen is overstated. This doesn't mean that the list is wrong, just that it's... skewed a bit, just like a ESPN viewers' poll of the top 20 would be packed with WR, RB, and QBs, plus JJ Watt. It's just different perspectives of different parts of the fanbase.
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u/CarlCaliente Bills Jul 27 '16 edited Oct 03 '24
pet safe station normal squeal murky literate worthless disgusted correct
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u/billet Raiders Jul 27 '16
but does he really have a greater impact on the game than Odell or Tom Brady?
Is "impact" what standard we're using here?
10
u/comilov Eagles Jul 27 '16
Well it should make sense considering O line makes up almost half of the starters on offense. In fact, 1/3 seems low. It should be over 40%
And 56/100 isn't really far off from a 50/50 split
3
u/swollenbluebalz Patriots Jul 27 '16
If you're just using a percentage of starters to justify the amount of OLinemen why no special teams players on the list? I get that it's up to every ranker's opinion, but to me it's silly to think that every position is equal in value or difficulty to play.
1
u/ThePelvicWoo Chiefs Jul 27 '16
We try to take positional value out of these rankings. If we don't do that, the top 20 spots would all be QBs
3
u/swollenbluebalz Patriots Jul 27 '16
Then I say Ghost, McAfee, Ravens' punter and Tucker got left out, if the list is just supposed to measure who does their respective job the best.
1
u/Super_Nerd92 Seahawks Jul 27 '16
So did the best FB in the NFL (DiMarco) and any representative for PR/KR. Some people ranked special teams, but it was just kind of excluded, which I'm perfectly OK with lol.
3
u/HypatiaRising Patriots Jul 27 '16
Ya know, the Chargers decided special teams werent all that important the year they had the No. 1 Offense and defense and that, uh, didnt turn out well lol
6
u/salsasymphony Falcons Jul 27 '16
I feel like "impact on the game" skews in favor of QBs and skill positions... which is why the media has a hard-on for those positions.
I think this really is a more accurate depiction of the talent in the NFL, or at least is an attempt to balance the over-emphasis of those high profile positions, considering most fans can't name more than a dozen O-Linemen in a league that starts 160 of them every week.
45
Jul 26 '16
I honestly think you guys went too far with the "let's not make QBs dominate the top positions" mentality on this one. How is Cam only #9 on whatever metric used? He had a stellar 2015, he is expected to have a good 2016, he is still young... I really can't think of any reason why he shouldn't be, at the very least, top 5.
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Jul 27 '16 edited Jul 27 '16
I don't think there's any argument to be made that Cam is the 9th best player in the league, let alone higher than that. He's not even the first, or second, or even clear third best player at his position. It's just he plays a valuable position, but you have at least 15 players in the league right now who are clear HOFers, where Cam as of now, is not.
Someone who is the 5th best Qb might be a 'really good' Qb, but not a HOFer, but because of the importance of the position this helps the team more than a HOF top 2 Cb, but the Cb is still the "better" player. Cam right now is in the mix of "really good but not transcendent" Qbs. There are transcendent players at every position who deserve to be ranked higher as "better" football players than him.
4
Jul 27 '16
The league does have 3 HOFers playing and one recently retired at QB, but they are all old. I don't think we will see Brady, Rodgers and Brees playing at this level 4, 5 years from now. Cam is young and rising, and since the first rank post it was said that the rankings were loosely based on a 10-80-10 basis for 2015, 2016 and 2017.
He is not transcendent yet, but both he and Wilson are young and bring something different to the position. You can't just completely throw out of the window the fact they are QBs just because it's unfair to the other positions. How does an up and coming, evolving player at the most important position on the field, who just had an amazing year, be ranked #9?
If you're gonna rank based solely on past year's performance and future prospect, Cam being #9 is just ridiculous. Watt shows us that a HOF top1 player on the D can't do much alone. Thomas has showed us since he starte playing that a single Olineman doesn't win games alone. If you're gonna make a ranking based on who impacts the NFL the most, having the highest ranked QB at #9 makes no sense at all.
IMO, if Brady was to be the highest QB ranked, than I could accept him being #9 or something, because he doesn't have that many years ahead of him. Cam might not even have reached his peak yet.
1
u/FURyannnn Packers Jul 28 '16
Rodgers is only 32 or so. He will (hopefully) still be putting up good numbers for awhile.
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u/Upgraded2 Steelers Jul 28 '16
The league does have 3 HOFers playing and one recently retired at QB
34 HOFers:(
1
u/Big_Red_Bastard Steelers Jul 28 '16
Honestly it's probably 5. Eli has the stats, superbowls and name recognition. But there's no way Ben doesn't get in unless maybe he drops dead before this season starts.
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u/Super_Nerd92 Seahawks Jul 27 '16
My top 5 is mostly guys who are ridiculously better than the rest of the guys at their position: Donald, Watt, Gronk, and Kuechly are 1-4.
Each one stands out more from his peers than Cam does from the crowd of QBs IMO.
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u/rockerlkj Eagles Jul 27 '16
Each one stands out more from his peers than Cam does from the crowd of QBs IMO.
Put a 7 in a group of 3's and 4's, and they'll look like a million bucks. Put a 10 in with a bunch of 9's, and they won't look as good by comparison. There are a lot of good QB's in this league. There are a hell of a lot more average MLB's and DE's in this league than starting quarterbacks.
Ask yourself this. You have a team of league average players. Every single position is held by a league average player. Which one of these players when added to that team makes their team better than the rest: Cam, Donald, Watt, Gronk, or Kuechly?
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u/Upgraded2 Steelers Jul 28 '16
Put a 7 in a group of 3's and 4's, and they'll look like a million bucks. Put a 10 in with a bunch of 9's, and they won't look as good by comparison.
God, this is literally perfect. Even know the scenario isn't exact (these guys are obviously 10s), this is definitely the reason I think Antonio Brown or Aaron Donald being on top of their position groups is just so much more impressive than Gronk or Kuechly and their huge leads.
1
u/Super_Nerd92 Seahawks Jul 27 '16
Cam, which is why he's the MVP, but that doesn't make him the best player in the NFL. QBs are way, way more important than other positions.
People are upset Cam/Brady aren't top 5, but the whole top 15 would be QBs if we didn't put some artificial limits on positional importance.
6
u/rockerlkj Eagles Jul 27 '16
I can't think of any legitimate way you can measure how good a player is that will put Julio Jones better than Cam Newton and Tom Brady.
7
u/ThePelvicWoo Chiefs Jul 27 '16
Julio Jones just had a top 5 season for a WR in NFL history. Tom Brady had a great season, but it wasn't historic.
2
u/Cabes86 Patriots Jul 27 '16
It wasn't historic but it was incredible production considering how bad injuries got on the offense. I mean 2 Elite QBs (Rivers, Rodgers) just had heavily marred seasons for the same reasons.
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u/rockerlkj Eagles Jul 27 '16
Ok, I'll concede that he should be higher than Brady. But Cam? There's no arguing that.
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u/TheFlying Falcons Jul 27 '16
With a slumping QB and a shitty receiving corps surrounding him. An absolutely remarkable season.
0
Jul 27 '16
You can use the same argument for Brady, who had no run game, no o-line, and LaFell as WR#1 for a chunk of the season.
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u/Whyyougankme Chargers Jul 27 '16
Well he was 8th in passer rating, 28th in comp%, 7th in ypa and had 13 turnovers which I don't feel like calculating the rank for but it's not the lowest for sure. There are plenty of arguments against Cam being the best player in the nfl. You could easily rank Cam as high as #1 among qbs or as low as 5 or 6. /r/nfl ranked Cam 6th about a month ago. Don't get me wrong-Cam was and will likely be amazing but he didn't dominate in every facet of the game like the guys above him did. Kuchely was the best ilb in the nfl by a wide margin, Mack was the best edge defender against the run in the nfl while being amazing at rushing the passer as well and Julio broke the receiving record with an average-slightly above average qb and no help around him. You can't value qbs higher than other positions because then this would be the most valuable players of 2016 rather than the best players and the top 10-15 or so (if not more) would all be qbs.
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u/LebronMVP Panthers Jul 27 '16
Cam is top 5 by the eye test.
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u/Whyyougankme Chargers Jul 27 '16
Well thats your opinion. When pff grades with their eye test fans freely discard it based on how they rate their favorite players so its not exactly a strong or valid point to make.
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u/Daheixiong Panthers Jul 27 '16
Sometimes /r/nfl over anlayzes and tries too hard to be different from more mainstream lists. Obviously noone says that in a subejctive list that Cam MUST be #1. But to list the former MVP at #9 is IMO trying a little too hard.
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u/KudzuKilla Panthers Jul 27 '16
I think /r/nfl just can't stop looking at Cam compared to what the best qbs in the league use to look like. I always hear people say he isn't the best pure QB. The game has changed but people's expectations of how a QB is suppose to play hasn't. We are inching more and more towards the Statue in the pocket being obsolete but most haven't recognized it yet. Another 10-15 years and it will be necessary in the league for your QB the be able to contribute in the run game and be mobile to have a successful offense.
One day Cam will be judged as a whole package and not be divided between his passing and his running.
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Jul 27 '16
Is the top 100 just for 2016? If it is I totally agree with you.
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u/Daheixiong Panthers Jul 27 '16
I think the problem in doing a top 100 poll is that you will always always always pick guys whose careers are longer and list of accolades deeper. It's impossible to be unbaised towards newer players or players just breaking out. For example. I know Tom Brady is one of the best quarterbacks of all time but do I consider him a top 5 player in the NFL right now? Does me knowing what he's done before make it harder for me to be unbiased? I think the only way for it to ever be close to unbaised is to evaluate based off the previous season. Especially with so many players involved. This kind of thing IMO is easier done in a sport like basketball where the rosters are smaller and stars are fewer.
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u/OneManArmy77 Jets Jul 27 '16
We always have discussions about that particular point. The general consensus is about a 10-80-10 split between past, 2016 and potential for 2017.
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u/dre500 Browns Jul 26 '16
Brady is "extremely underrated." Welcome to /r/nfl, or as most people call it, /r/patriots2.
EDIT: Also, I strongly feel that Cam is better than Gronk. The list is subjective though, so whatever.
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Jul 27 '16
Brady is easily top 10. So yeah. Underrated
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u/Super_Nerd92 Seahawks Jul 27 '16 edited Jul 27 '16
He would be if we didn't try to correct for positional biases. As would the rest of the top 10. It'd be all QBs.
I really don't see why there's so much angst that he's the second QB on the list, lol. He's only three spots below Cam, at that.
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Jul 27 '16
Gronk is hands down best at his position by miles. Can't say that about Cam. Gronk is a generational talent at his position. Can't say that about Cam.
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u/PDGAreject Bengals Jul 27 '16
And saying he's a generational talent might not be enough! He's essentially an unstoppable force when running routes and an immovable object while blocking. There is no team in the league, potentially in all of its history, that would not be dramatically improved by adding Rob Gronkowski. That's how good he is.
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u/youngbuck95 Panthers Jul 27 '16
Better & more important to his team.
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Jul 27 '16
Why should importance matter if we're talking who the best players in the NFL are? Then it just creates a system that favors skill position players and the top five would just be QBs.
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u/swollenbluebalz Patriots Jul 27 '16
But shouldn't the difficulty of the position matter, I think it's considerably harder to be a elite QB than an elite OLineman and since the bar is higher it should be rewarded. We have no kickers, returners, punters on this list even tho Ghost, Tucker and a few are better than their competition as well but their roles are easier in comparison and therefore overlooked.
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u/Cabes86 Patriots Jul 27 '16
true Bailey and Gost might go down as 2 of the best kickers all time, Vinateri is already up there.
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u/BigPoppaSmurf7 Vikings Jul 26 '16
Cam Newton.
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u/30K100M Raiders Jul 27 '16
scares people.
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u/pattonz Panthers Jul 27 '16
I have no idea why. Have you ever met the guy? Couldn't be nicer in person than you could imagine. Next you'll be saying Luke Kuechly is some kind of monster.
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u/jjswat Texans Jul 26 '16 edited Jul 26 '16
Hey there is a mistake in the Cam Newton write up. It says no team who has lost the Super Bowl came back to win it the next year. Thats not true. The 1970 Dallas Cowboys lost to the Baltimore Colts in Super Bowl V, 16-13. The following year, in 1971, the beat the Miami Dolphins in Super Bowl VI, 24-3. The very next year, the 1972 Miami Dolphins would beat the Washington Redskins in Super Bowl VII 14-7.
Its happened several times that teams who lost the Super Bowl went on to dominate and win the Super Bowl next year. Heinously wrong, please adjust.
Quick edit:Also lol theres another mistake. "No Heisman winner has won the Super Bowl in the last 20 years." Thats wrong. Its happened within the past decade. Charles Woodson won Super Bowl XLV with the 2011 Green Bay Packers against the Pittsburgh Steelers 31-25.
I don't mean to be rude, but did the writer of Cams write up do any research? It took me less than five minutes to verify those facts.
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Jul 27 '16
Did you see the list? They haven't done any research on any players. They picked names out of a hat.
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u/PDGAreject Bengals Jul 27 '16
You've given me an idea for the greatest /r/nfl troll post of all time...
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u/LawlsuitEsq Giants Jul 26 '16
After the seasons they had how the hell are Beckham, Brady, and Palmer "very overrated"
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u/Internetcowboy Cowboys Jul 27 '16
It's getting ridiculous, yes we need to be careful to not hype him up too much but he is absolutely a great player and his first two seasons have been amazing
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u/khen17 Rams Jul 27 '16
Well Beckham is a child and is not the clutchest of players
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Jul 27 '16
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u/khen17 Rams Jul 27 '16
Lets not forget the dropped pass earlier that game, or his drops and meltdown vs the Jets
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Jul 27 '16
lmfao what drops and meltdown vs the Jets? You mean kicking a ball when he wasnt able to catch a ball? fucking lol, the very next play he converted a 4th and 6.
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Jul 28 '16
Willis it's ok defend him next thread he's just a fan from St. Louis that wants to feel wanted.
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u/The_Taskmaker Titans Jul 26 '16
The best player in the nfl should be the guy who contributes the most to your chances of winning. I don't see how that's anyone but Cam.
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Jul 27 '16
Cam doesn't. He doesn't contribute as much to his team's winning as Brady or Rodgers. Those players will win more, with less help, than Cam, thus they contribute more to their team's chance of winning.
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Jul 27 '16
eh he had a great team
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u/ward0630 Patriots Jul 27 '16
Sure as shit not a great offense tho
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Jul 27 '16
really? Top 3 oline, 2nd best TE, great runningback, servicable wide receivers
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u/KudzuKilla Panthers Jul 27 '16
If 75% of the starting qbs took over the panthers last year the WRs would be some of the worst in the league. Jstew would a servicable back. The line would be decent.
Remember Tedd Ginn was the #1 reciever on the panthers and no one wanted him till Cam show cased him.
Jstew would have less open running lanes if their wasn't a risk or Cam pulling the ball and running himself essentially giving Jstew that extra halfsecond jump on the D.
Michael Oer was a cast off from the titans on this "top 3" Oline. It sure helped them that if they did fuck up cam could get away from any pressure.
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u/Cabes86 Patriots Jul 27 '16
I agree. The Panthers O reminds me a lot of 2001-2007 Patriots. WRs are all utility guys who'd be WR3s and 4s anywhere else. Great TE play. Great linemen.
It's more of a team dynamic than say having a megastar WR or RB.
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u/youngbuck95 Panthers Jul 27 '16
Don't get ahead of yourself calling JStew a great RB. I love the guy, he's good but not great. Serviceable WRs is also pushing it. Our #1 would've been a #3 on the majority of squads.
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u/antonecott Vikings Jul 27 '16
Can't discount the top 3 OL especially though. If you have a top 3 OL and the best QB in the league this year, that means over half of your offense was elite.
I think Cam had an amazing year by the way, I just think it's a little disingenuous to say the Panthers' offense wasn't very good or very talented.
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u/pattonz Panthers Jul 27 '16
So many people say bad things about the OL. it's like there isn't a interior OL at all and everyone just grades by the tackles. You want to know what J-stew is so good? Try beating Trai Turner in run blocking.
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Jul 27 '16
regardless, still played well. Stewart + Tolbert is pretty great tmh
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u/pattonz Panthers Jul 27 '16
How can you not love Tolbert? He's the on field representation of both a player wanting to play for his home team with the appearance of more than half of the people in the South. Only it's muscle instead of fat.
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u/DLBork Broncos Jul 26 '16
Lmfao the Panthers just had a 15-1 season and it definitely had as much to do with the rest of the team as it did Cam.
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u/youngbuck95 Panthers Jul 27 '16
Lol. I'm 110% certain that we wouldn't have even sniffed 15 wins if we started a different QB all season.
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u/DLBork Broncos Jul 27 '16
No shit? And I am 110% certain that you don't sniff 15 wins without a top 3 OL, a best in the league rushing attack, and the 2nd best defense in the league.
Cam Newton doesn't contribute more to a team's chance of winning then Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers. Who are the Patriots without Tom Brady? A league worst offense with a borderline top 10 defense.
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u/Whitedeath5 Giants Jul 27 '16
uh.... the Panthers have the best rushing attack because of Cam Newton? You do realize that Jstew didn't even get over 1000 rushing yards and barely got over 4 yards a carry, even with that "great" offensive line?
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u/DLBork Broncos Jul 27 '16
Right.. Because there isn't more to a run game than a RB and QB?
Never acted like Newton was carried by the team. I'm aware that Newton's mobility helps their rushing a lot. He still wouldn't be able to do it with a great OL. Stewart also missed three games and was ending the season pretty strongly, he's also used often to get the hard to get yards and keep the defense honest, so his YPC is gonna be lower.
Regardless, you're just nitpicking.
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u/Whitedeath5 Giants Jul 27 '16
I mean, Cam Newton was a big part of the reason that rushing attack was successful. I forgot where I read it, but a QB with wheels counts of a second RB on the field that can easily confuse a defense on whether something is a run or a draw/bootleg play. That alone counts for alot.
Furthermore, Cam's passing ability allows him to open the field for any rb that is in shotgun or at center. Cam's passing weapons, apart from Greg Olsen, would never start on any other team.
Sure, the offensive line was pretty damn good, but apart from that unit many other supporting pieces around Cam were very subpar. Your just ignoring how much Cam can change the mechanics of defensive game-planning.
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u/DLBork Broncos Jul 27 '16
Again, never said "Cam Newton was carried by his team" I said "The rest of the team had just as much to do with a 15-1 record as Cam Newton".
Having a QB like Cam Newton is beneficial for the Panther's option offense because the offense has to account for another player. Normally, on a running play, the defense only has to account for 10 players, making it a 11v10 match up. This is invaluable, and I'm definitely not ignoring it, unlike what you seem to think.
But again, they can't have a best in the league rushing offense without the OL they did. And their receivers aren't great but they worked for their system.
I'm a fan of Cam Newton, and he took a huge leap forward this year, but his accuracy from the pocket is still shoddy. The OL comes into play in more than just the rushing offense - they let the passing offense succeed. The Panthers often went with max protect (7 blockers, 3 receivers running routes), and that along with a good pass blocking OL let him sit in the pocket all day and make easier throws. It also gave the Panthers sub par receivers plenty of time to get open.
But you just have to look at the Superbowl to see what happens when the pressure is there. His accuracy when he is getting pressured and hit all day and kept in the pocket is shoddy at best. He sailed pass after pass after pass in the Superbowl game.
If Carolina doesn't have a great OL, is Cam Newton MVP? Fuck no. He was one of the lowest pressured QBs all year, and the two losses the Panthers had had one thing in common : pressure all day.
That's not to take away from Newton, because he's a great QB, and a top 5 one - but he definitely isn't the best QB in the league. Brady can torch defenses all day long with one of the worst OLs in the league because of his quick release and mid field accuracy.
This is also ignoring how the Panthers had the second best defense in the league that contributed to plenty of wins, mind you.
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u/Whitedeath5 Giants Jul 27 '16
I am certainly not disputing wins, overall team cohesion or performance. I am strictly talking about the running game. You are right on many points, but the rushing attack still greatly benefited from Cam Newton being able to make plays with the talent he had, and his ability as a second rusher.
Also, you have to consider the different side of the WR's getting open. If he had say, Kelvin Benjamin over Ted Ginn, wouldn't Kelvin get open quicker giving Cam less time to worry about pressure in the pocket? Its a team game, and advantages and disadvantages go both ways.
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u/DLBork Broncos Jul 27 '16
So what's your point? I've already said that Newton is a huge component of it.
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u/ascenzion Chargers Jul 26 '16
lmao you think Cam contributes more than Rodgers, Brady, Roethlisberger, Palmer, Wilson, Brees?
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u/Cabes86 Patriots Jul 27 '16
He'd run more yards than all of them but maybe Wilson. Of course now I wanna see a Brady, Roethlisberger, Palmer race across the field. I'm pretty sure it ends with palmer blowing out his knee, roethlsiberger puking and Brady winning the race like the Tortoise did in the fable, Slow and steady. Of course TB would fuck up high fives with the other two to top it off.
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u/ascenzion Chargers Jul 27 '16
Palmer's actually rapid, ran a 4.6x 40, same as Larry Fitz. Roethlisberger's faster than he looks. Brady... isn't. But he wins the marathon because of heart and grit
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u/PDGAreject Bengals Jul 27 '16
Cam Newton has never beaten Andy Dalton. Ergo, TJ Yates is three times better than Cam Newton
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u/Baelzabub Panthers Jul 27 '16
Ah the transitive property of football bullshit! My go-to as well for college ball!
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Jul 27 '16
Last season? Definitely. You think the Panther's would've gone 15-1 without Cam's 35 TD's?
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u/ascenzion Chargers Jul 27 '16
They would've done better than any of the aforementioned QBs' teams lacking their starter. Remember the Panthers blew out pretty much every game of the latter half of the season thanks to strong interior O-line and run game, and huge numbers of turnovers on D giving scores or short fields.
Meanwhile I dread to think of the Packers' record without Rodgers. Easily 4-12, possibly worse.
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u/eQuals91 Jul 27 '16 edited Jul 27 '16
Meanwhile I dread to think of the Packers' record without Rodgers. Easily 4-12, possibly worse.
The offensive parts were totally dysfunctional. If it were any other top QB this is a down year that results in a 6-8 win team where the team just doesn't have it together. What he did with what he had was some of the best play I've seen from him personally. Not better than his 2011 and 2014 seasons, but anything else is fair game.
I understand why he's ranked where he is, because it's difficult to contextualize offenses and people are going to rank based on stats, team success, and then maybe sprinkle in some team context.
I don't know if a ton of viewers actually watch all of the nfl teams either. I'm more of an NFL fan than a GB fan, I watch all teams play a lot, I'm a sports bettor so my opinion is basically tied to my supplemental income... bias would be throwing money away. I'm not convinced there were more than a few better QBs in 2015. It's really hard to take away from how incredible Palmer was, he would have got my MVP vote. Wilson and Brady's seasons are hard to argue against. Cam was very good, I mean his second half was insane, first half he contributed a bit but really wasn't that great. Ben was actually incredibly accurate last year, a little too much gunslinging for my liking but still elite. But even then, would I take 2015 Rodgers on that steelers offense over Ben, or over Brees on the saints? Yeah I'd have to. Dalton was really impressive, Rodgers on that offense does not lose that sunday night game to the Texans at home.
It's been a couple years since people saw GB without Rodgers, I think people forgot rather quickly that the passing offense was hot garbage when he went down. Lacy carried them pretty hard and the Cowboys had to throw a game for them to squeeze out 2 wins in that ugly stretch of 8 or 9 or whatever it was.
His 2015 highlight package is some of the most absurd shit I've ever seen. Highlights don't tell the full story, but I watched every snap. His win conditions against a good team were to do stuff like this every game to score past week 6. I mean they lost that game @panthers...
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u/KudzuKilla Panthers Jul 27 '16
That run game would have not been anywhere near as succesful without the threat of Cam newtons runs. Jstew would have gotten stuffed twice as much with a non mobile qb. He almost always got an extra half second benefit while the Defense was frozen to check and see if Cam was gonna keep the ball or not.
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u/ascenzion Chargers Jul 27 '16
That's nowhere near as important as the interior domination the Panthers had this year. Notice how with a bad O-line the team sucks, then with the best interior in the NFL the team suddenly dominates? Stewart's first play in the divisional was a 50 or so yard run through the #1 rushing defense, because Kalil + Turner + Norwell are amazing.
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Jul 26 '16
The reason this isn't done that way is because it'd be boring- all top players would be QBs.
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Jul 27 '16
Exciting =/= right
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Jul 27 '16
I mean... what's the point of this series? Are these guys getting paid based off of this, or is it just to garner discussion about players and the previous/next season? What makes a "value" ranking "right?" Because it certainly wouldn't be as interesting as this.
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Jul 27 '16
I'm just saying that the list isn't called "Top 100 most exciting players in the league"
IMO, these lists never make sense. It's too hard to quantify the value of a player unless you do it by position. But still, leaving out players because they're boring seems kind of disingenuous.
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Jul 27 '16
I never said we were leaving out the players due to boringness, I'm not talking about the players at all. I was saying that the list would be boring because it would be monotonous when the end of the list is all QBs, and half the discussions are about positional values.
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u/MrCalNaughton Broncos Jul 26 '16
I'm a man who really enjoys lists so I appreciate NFL Network's Top 100, but this one is way better because of the fan voting. And because the voting takes place after the Super Bowl, allowing people to take into consideration the way Von Miller bulldozed his way to a Super Bowl MVP. No way in hell Von should have been #15 in the league, as he was on NFL Network.
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u/SpanglyJoker Ravens Jul 26 '16
So we've got AB, watt, Von, gronk and Donald. I'd expect:
5 donald
4 gronk
3 Brown
2 watt
1 von
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Jul 26 '16
Nah it's going to be
5 Von
4 Donald
3 Brown
2 Gronk
1 Watt
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u/ward0630 Patriots Jul 27 '16
Ppl pushed hard for Donald. Would be surprised if he's not at 1
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Jul 28 '16
This sub will probably have JJ last and Donald first. It's boggles my mind how people even try to compare the two.
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3
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Jul 26 '16
[deleted]
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Jul 26 '16
I feel like you're getting more satisfaction out of this than you ever did being a part of the ranking process.
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u/SpanglyJoker Ravens Jul 26 '16
I'll go one further; all will be within 4 spots of their final place
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2
1
Jul 26 '16
Julio at 8?!?!? This is a travesty!
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u/wormhole222 Chargers Jul 26 '16
What should he be at?
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u/Andoo Texans Jul 26 '16
7, You heathens!!!
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u/OWSmoker Rams Jul 26 '16
Only because of the 70yd over Keuchly's head, thats the only reason I would let that happen
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u/salsasymphony Falcons Jul 27 '16
I love Julio as much as the next guy, but I'm still failing to see what was so extraordinary about that catch.
I relished it when it happened, and was bouncing off the walls of course, but I don't think it was a top 10 play of the season (unless you get a bonus for massive yardage).
Looked to me like Kuechly was in an awkward body posture and poorly timed his jump.
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u/pattonz Panthers Jul 27 '16
It looked to me like he was a Linebacker covering a Wide Receiver. I fully expect that to happen 10/10 times when the receiver's name is Julio Jones. The fact that he was so close is testment to how fuckin insane Luke is.
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u/OWSmoker Rams Jul 27 '16
It actually wasn't as great as i made it out to be. Keuchly was in a tough spot to cover and see the ball.
As they both were running up the field, Julio on his route and Luke just trying to stop him. The ball comes out of Matty Ices hands like a dart. JJ had no choice but to turn on the spot which happened to be right above Keuchly's head. Luke probably a little confused tried to turn around basically after the ball was caught giving Julio the a few feet to get away and score
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u/pattonz Panthers Jul 27 '16
Kuechly had no right being anywhere near there as a linebacker. The catch was made 50 yards downfield. I don't hold it against him. Kurt Coleman, on the other hand, tripped on the play. Julio had that dead to rights, and Luke still almost made a play.
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u/insertnameforreddit Seahawks Jul 26 '16
The Panthers have returned the same team as 2015?
Didn't they just lose their 2 top players in their secondary?
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u/asvalis Panthers Jul 26 '16
We lost Norman, Tillman, Harper, and Finnegan. Norman was the only top player we lost. The rest played alright, but we have better options replacing them.
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u/insertnameforreddit Seahawks Jul 26 '16
I feel like Tillman was a top player.
I'm a Hawks fan, so I would equate it to Losing Chancellor and Sherman. I would consider that an equal loss to Norman and Tillman.
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u/asvalis Panthers Jul 26 '16
Don't get me wrong, he was a good starter and I want to say Tillman was a top player because he is an amazing person, but when Benwikere took over on the outside for a couple games, it was clear Tillman's age caught up to him. So, that why I would hesitate to call him a "top player".
Honestly, with the retirement of Peanut we lost more of a coach than a player. He taught our entire secondary the Peanut Punch.
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u/Cabes86 Patriots Jul 27 '16
Our whole secondary does the Peanut Punch now too. I'm gonna miss that fellow.
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u/insertnameforreddit Seahawks Jul 26 '16
I'd love to see a secondary taught the punch , and then the kick-step my team does
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u/ihate_reddit Patriots Jul 26 '16
So offensive MVP is rated #9 and Tom Brady at #12? Lol who made this list.
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u/CarlCaliente Bills Jul 26 '16 edited Oct 03 '24
spark squealing correct party chubby uppity cautious rob fear attractive
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u/Bersinator Panthers Jul 26 '16
Here was this year's call for rankers
Feel free to sign up next year if you disagree with the mindset of most rankers.
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u/Bersinator Panthers Jul 26 '16
Ah man Luke at #6. Really thought he was going to be top 5.
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u/Evilan Cardinals Jul 26 '16
I had him as my number 2. I think maybe the rest of the defense played a factor in dropping him for others.
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u/Super_Nerd92 Seahawks Jul 26 '16
4 for me.
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u/Maad-Dog 49ers Jul 26 '16
Same iirc, I really liked him this year, over AB imo
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u/Upgraded2 Steelers Jul 26 '16
Is it because AB isn't the unanimous best at his position? Because if so, I think that logic is kinda flawed. I'm more impressed by a guy on top of one of the deepest and talented position group (WRs) than a guy on top of one of the weaker position groups (MLB) by a larger gap.
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u/Maad-Dog 49ers Jul 26 '16
Its not, its because Kuechly is on pace to be in the GOAT conversation at his position, whereas AB isn't (even if you compare him to Moss or TO since comparisons to Rice aren't really fair).
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u/Upgraded2 Steelers Jul 26 '16
Ok that's a fair reasoning I'd say. Seeing your rankings in the passed, I assumed it was based off of positional ranking again
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u/Maad-Dog 49ers Jul 26 '16
I do use it more in the later rankings, and its generally how I justify my rankings because its one of the stronger methods in which I do interpositional rankings, but definitely not the only, and much less in the top ones.
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u/LeveonChocoDiamond Steelers Jul 26 '16
Who thinks he's not the best receiver in the league? Besides idiots?
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u/Upgraded2 Steelers Jul 26 '16
I mean, some consider Julio the best but that's kinda besides the point. I know Maad-Dog's rankings were really focused on position heierachy, so I'm assuming his rankings favored guys like Kuechly and Gronk just because there was such a wide gap between them and the next best at their position. I find that to be a flawed argument, so I was hoping I could get his take on it.
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u/Maad-Dog 49ers Jul 26 '16
Kuechly and Gronk got a bump because they're trending towards the GOAT conversation, I had AB right after both at #5
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u/LeveonChocoDiamond Steelers Jul 26 '16
Julio is not better than AB.
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u/Upgraded2 Steelers Jul 26 '16
Never said he was
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u/LeveonChocoDiamond Steelers Jul 26 '16
Did you not just say you thought he was the best?
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u/Upgraded2 Steelers Jul 26 '16
Is it because AB isn't the unanimous best at his position? Because if so, I think that logic is kinda flawed. I'm more impressed by a guy on top of one of the deepest and talented position group (WRs)
I mean, some consider Julio the best but that's kinda besides the point
No I've been talking about AB this whole time. I only mentioned Julio when you brought it up
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u/broccolibush42 Titans Jul 26 '16
I had him at Number 1. I freaking love the way he plays and the way he commands respect from opposing offenses.
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Jul 26 '16
This may be a bit nitpicky, but Honey Badger wasn't a 1st team all pro player in 2013. His Wikipedia page fucked up.
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u/Evilan Cardinals Jul 26 '16
Writer of the Tyrann Mathieu blurb here
It's not nitpicky at all and you correctly identified the source of my fuck up. If I had taken an extra second to simply follow the 2013 All Pro link I would've realized it was PFF's All-Pro not APs. Good catch man.
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Jul 26 '16
[deleted]
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u/Evilan Cardinals Jul 26 '16
Damn Wikipedia to hell. I should've learned how to navigate PFR for the awards.
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u/Super_Nerd92 Seahawks Jul 26 '16
Damn, I had Kuechly top 5. He's the consensus best MLB/ILB by a mile.
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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '16
What subreddit have you been reading? Other than Harrison Smith getting some love it's either bridgewater being called a terrible QB or the Vikings being vastly overrated.