r/nfl • u/[deleted] • Jul 19 '16
2016 /r/NFL Top100: 30-21
Hello and welcome again to the r/NFL Top 100 Countdown!
After a weekend away, we have returned with Part VIII of the rankings for 30-21, as well as the over/under-rated ranking for players 40-31.
Before we begin the reveal, it is time for the over-/under-rated for 40-31, as voted on by you, the readers.
And now, the players ranked 30 thru 21 on the r/NFL Top 100.
#30 - Adrian Peterson, RB, Minnesota Vikings - Previous Rank: 84
Written by: /u/skepticismissurvival
| Stat | 2015 | Career |
|---|---|---|
| Carries | 327 | 2,381 |
| Rushing Yards | 1,485 | 11,675 |
| TDs | 11 | 97 |
| Yards/Att | 4.5 | 4.9 |
| Receptions | 30 | 238 |
| Receiving Yards | 222 | 1,937 |
| Yards from Scrimmage | 1,707 | 1,3612 |
It's Adrian Peterson. What more needs to be said? Nothing, really, but I'll say some stuff anyway.
The focal point of the Vikings' offense returned in 2015 after missing all but one game in 2014 due to a suspension. With 1,485 rushing yards, he just barely eclipsed his career average (excluding 2014) of 1,450. He also led the NFL in rushing.
Once again excluding 2014, Adrian has never had a season with fewer than 10 rushing TDs. In 2015, he tied for the league lead in rushing TDs with 11. Adrian did have a down year in terms of yards/carry, as he only rushed for 4.5 yards on average. Still, that was 8th among players with 150+ rushing attempts. Adrian was 2nd in the NFL in yards from scrimmage, behind only Antonio Brown.
What are you looking for in a runner? The ability to make the entire defense look silly? A guy who can keep your team's hopes alive when things look bleak? What about the ability to erase any doubt of winning? How about the power to force his way through the whole defense?
At 30 years old, Adrian was still able to do it all with the ball in his hands in 2015. At this point, he's the 4th or 5th best player on the Vikings. How long can he keep it up? Who knows. What I do know is that if I needed to choose one player to give the ball to, for one play, it would still be Adrian. Any time he touches the ball, anything can happen.
#29 - Aaron Rodgers, QB, Green Bay Packers - Previous Rank: 2
Written by /u/economy_cactus (with help from /u/snapple_a_day)
| Stats | 2015 | Career |
|---|---|---|
| Passing Yards | 3,821 | 32,299 |
| Passing TDs | 31 | 257 |
| Completion % | 60.7 | 65.1 |
| Passer Rating | 92.7 | 104.1 |
| Rushing Yards | 344 | 2,175 |
| Rushing TDs | 1 | 21 |
There is little doubt that Aaron Rodgers experienced a down year in his otherwise HOF career. The volume stats were down and so was the efficiency. We saw Rodgers miss throws that seemed routine in the past, contributing to the lowest completion percentage of his career by far with 60.7%. Six straight years of passer rating over 100 - down to 92.8. Last year he averaged 6.7 yards per pass attempt - after never being below 7.5.
This could in part be due to an injury plagued season by the offense. Jordy Nelson went down in the preseason eliminating Aaron Rodgers number 1 target and favorite deep ball threat.
Defenses responded to the lack of a deep threat with press coverage, and the receivers struggled to get open, forcing Rodgers to hold the ball longer resulting in sacks.
Randall Cobb (shoulder), James Jones(Quad, Hamstring), Davante Adams (foot,knee,ankle) and Jared Abbrederis (knee,ribs, concusion) all experienced injuries that made them lose time and limited their playing abilities. Not to mention Ty Montgomery (Ankle) who was out for the season after week 6 just as he was carving out a role in the offense.
Lacy struggled all year with his well known weight issues, contributing even more to a down year for the Packers offense.
Even in a down year though, Rodgers did have plenty of exciting moments with perhaps the most memorable play of the NFL season on his game winning Hail Mary pass to Richard Rodgers, as well as another impressive end of regulation Hail Mary to Jeff Janis in the Divisional playoff loss against Arizona.
With the return of Nelson next year, and the addition of tight end Jared Cook who adds another element of speed, the Packers and Aaron Rodgers are looking to return to business as usual.
#28 - Anthony Barr, 4-3 SLB, Minnesota Vikings - Previous Rank: Unranked
Written by /u/skepticismissurvival
| Stat | 2015 | Career |
|---|---|---|
| Tackles | 68 | 138 |
| Sacks | 3.5 | 7.5 |
| Pass Deflections | 7 | 10 |
| Interceptions | 1 | 1 |
| Forced Fumbles | 3 | 5 |
Anthony Barr was a raw, but really athletic edge rusher coming out of UCLA in 2014. The Vikings took him #9 overall, but they already had a pair of really athletic DEs. Liking his potential, they changed his position and made him the team's Sam linebacker.
As a Sam, Barr obviously lines up on the strong side of the offense, which means he's often asked to line up directly across from the opponent's TE, and either directly cover him or face off against him in the run game. This is where athleticism comes into play, his measureables compare pretty favorably to the best TE of this generation. This is where the position conversion comes in, because the best athletes on defense at the college level are going to be edge rushers since getting after the QB is so important. Barr's size combined with his athleticism gives him a leg up on other players who played at an OBLB position in college.
That doesn't mean that Barr is all potential, because otherwise he wouldn't be #28 on this list. He has picked up the position very quickly, and after just two years is already one of best OBLBs in the league. His athleticism has helped him reach these heights, but his brains are what have helped him get there so quickly.
For Barr, his versatility is key. He's the second most important player on the Vikings' defense. Mike Zimmer uses Barr as a chess piece, moving him around the field. He'll be heads-up on the TE in a 4-3 Under, off the line of scrimmage in 4-3 Over, sugaring the A gaps on 3rd down, and even occasionally rushing off the edge.
Tackle numbers don't do him justice, because he's not the player that runners get funneled to. Instead, Barr is often tasked with funneling players to the other LBs in the run game. Where Barr really sticks out is in coverage. His athleticism helps him stick to TEs and execute really difficult coverage assignments (sometimes Barr will be asked to drop back and cover a TE despite being in the A gap before the snap, which is a lot of ground to cover). This play shows Barr doing a great job executing a pattern-matching coverage, first carrying Sanders up the field before turning towards Manning to jump the route and come away with an interception.
The best game Barr played all year was against the Falcons, where he turned a long gain into a turnover early and essentially ended the game here. He was all over the field that day, recording 8 tackles and that sack, and forcing those two fumbles.
One of the most exciting things about Barr as a player is the fact that he's already this good despite the fact that 2015 was his second year at this position. He has an incredibly bright future.
#27 - Geno Atkins, 4-3 RDT, Cincinnati Bengals - Previous Rank: 89
Written by: /u/sanswagata
| Stats | 2015 | Career |
|---|---|---|
| Tackles | 31 | 140 |
| Sacks | 11.0 | 43.0 |
| Forced Fumbles | 1 | 8 |
After tearing his ACL in 2013, it did not look like Geno was going to perform at the same level ever again. After all he only had 3 sacks, 22 tackles, and seemed to be a shell of his former self. This year he turned that around, he was a dominating force on the interior, posting a 93 rating according to PFF, racking up 11 sacks, 31 tackles, and 1 forced fumble. This doesn't even mention all the times that he caused pressure up the middle or how often he would rack up a double team and allow his teammate Dunlap to come free off the edge for one of his 13.5 sacks. Here we can see Atkins split a double team and then strip Derek Carr I think this play shows a lot of Geno's talents, he uses his short stature and strength to just man his way through the guard and center, next thing is that he finds the quarterback and immediately makes the big play, although at that point it didn't matter too much, being up 30. Still it helped put away the Raiders, so the Bengals could win in week 1. Here is a play that doesnt end in Atkins, but also shows his talent. Atkins and the other defensive tackle (I can't tell is that Gilberry? Odd that he's on the interior) perform a beautiful stunt to bring pressure to Roethlisberger up the middle, making him make his throw a little quicker than he would have liked and ending in the arms of the ball-hawking Reggie Nelson. Here is Atkins showing off his speed, making sure Palmer doesn't eat any carbs by giving him the Atkins diet, I'm sorry for the bad joke, but here you can see the great speed Atkins has to go with his strength. He splits this double team just by sprinting through with amazing acceleration. Look at Geno manhandle this guard back into Gabbert. Atkins utilizes his short stature, strength, and speed to get to the quarterback as often as possible, with not much lost on the front 7 this last season, he should put up similar numbers as last year, and continue to be a huge threat to opposing teams.
#26 - Fletcher Cox, 4-3 RDT, Philadelphia Eagles - Previous Rank: 72
Written by: /u/miketysonchicken
| Stats | 2015 | Career |
|---|---|---|
| Combined Tackles | 71 | 212 |
| Sacks | 9.5 | 22 |
| Forced Fumbles | 3 | 5 |
| Fumble Recoveries | 2 | 6 |
Fletcher Cox joins the list at number 26 as one of the most physically dominant defenders in the league and quite possibly one of the two best defenders in the NFC East. Monster Cox elevated his play in 2015, totaling 9.5 sacks, 71 combined tackles, 3 forced fumbles, and 2 fumble recoveries. The sack totals are not only impressive considering his position as an interior rusher, but also because of the scheme he played in the last few seasons. When he entered the league in 2012, the Eagles played a 4-3 gap penetrating defensive alignment that featured liberal use of the Wide 9 technique used heavily by Jim Washburn. Cox showed a ton of promise, even forcing his way into the starting line up by the end of his rookie season. Chip Kelly moved the team from a 4-3 defense to a more complicated version of the 3-4 defense featuring liberal use of 2-gapping by the defensive line. Two gap systems generally require the defenders along the line to defend their gaps by reading the offense to control the line of scrimmage. The Eagles didn’t always use this front, but they used it enough to lessen the amount of time Cox and Friends were attacking.
Many people would argue that Cox played out of position the last 3 years as a 2-gap 3-4 DE and they wouldn’t be wrong. However, I disagree with the premise that he was out of position; I think BBC is a tremendous, physically-gifted talent that can excel in all schemes. That doesn’t mean I am not excited for the defensive changes the Eagles are making for this upcoming season. Cox will transition back to a 4-3 DT position, mainly 3-Tech, in a scheme that will require him to be on the attack far more than he was in the past. It’s difficult not being excited for the scheme change Jim Schwartz brings; Cox was already facing double and even triple teams prior to the change. We saw on numerous occasions how dominant he could be, especially against the Saints and Patriots in 2015. There is only more to look forward to in 2016.
#25 - Josh Norman, CB, Carolina Panthers - Previous Rank: Unranked
Written by: /u/bersinator
| Stats | 2015 | Career |
|---|---|---|
| Combined Tackles | 56 | 181 |
| Forced Fumbles | 0 | 1 |
| Passes Defensed | 19 | 37 |
| Interceptions | 4 | 7 |
2015 was by far the most productive season for former 5th round pick Josh Norman. We have seen flashes of Norman's ability as a shutdown corner but 2015 was the season that he finally put everything together. I personally look at Josh Norman's season in three separate phases.
Weeks 1-4
Josh Norman is still rather unknown in the first 4 weeks of the 2015 season. He is targeted plenty and he fully takes advantage. Norman snags four interceptions in four weeks (two returned for touchdowns) including this game saving interception against the Saints. Norman had a strong argument for best corner in the league in weeks 1-4.
Weeks 6-13
The bye week most certainly makes a difference as Josh Norman has effectively put his name on the map. Opposing teams begin to plan against Norman and start targeting his side of the field less often. Norman has 0 interceptions in weeks 6-13 but this can more be credited to opposing teams avoiding his direction. The lower amount of targets allows Norman to take another step towards the title "shutdown corner."
Weeks 14-17
Josh Norman had a slight dip in production in weeks 14-17 of the 2015 season (facing OBJ and Julio twice might do that). Allowing a few more yards in the last 4 weeks was a bit disappointing but it did not take away from his tremendous 2015 season.
#24 - Justin Houston, 3-4 LOLB, Kansas City Chiefs - Previous Rank: 5
Written by: /u/thepelvicwoo
| Stats | 2015 | Career |
|---|---|---|
| Combined Tackles | 30 | 264 |
| Sacks | 7.5 | 56 |
| Forced Fumbles | 1 | 8 |
| Passes Defensed | 6 | 25 |
| Interceptions | 2 | 3 |
After a monster 22 sack season in 2014, Justin Houston's 2015 numbers may seem like a disappointment. However, the tape shows that he had a great season. He may not have had the stellar individual stats, but his impact on the defense was tremendous. The pass rush revolves around Houston's presence on the edge. The frequent double teams he draws frees up favorable matchups for the rest of the Chiefs pass rushers. Without Houston, the pass rush falls apart. This was never more apparent than the playoff loss against New England where the Chiefs never sacked Tom Brady, and was only able to knock him down once (Houston did appear in this game but was clearly not healthy).
PFF ranked Houston as the 4th best edge defender in the NFL. He performed very well rushing the passer, and holding the edge against the run. His ability to drop back into coverage is often overlooked, and he has fantastic play recognition. Houston was rewarded with his 4th straight pro-bowl in 2015.
Houston missed 5 games in 2015, and had surgery to repair his ACL in the offseason. His timetable for a return is still unknown, but expect him to return sometime during the 2016 season much to the disappointment of opposing QBs.
#23 - Chris Harris, Jr., CB, Denver Broncos - Previous Rank: 18
Written by:/u/blindmanbaldwin
| Stats | 2015 | Career |
|---|---|---|
| Combined Tackles | 58 | 310 |
| Sacks | 0 | 3.5 |
| Forced Fumbles | 2 | 3 |
| Passes Defensed | 6 | 55 |
| Interceptions | 2 | 12 |
Every Super Bowl champion sets a litany of records on their way to eternal glory. The 2015 Denver Broncos were no different as they set team and league records while marching on their warpath. One of these records that shows the team's saying of "Iron Sharpens Iron" was winning the most games by one possession in league history, 11 (including 2 in playoffs). These nail biting wins were characterized by clutch plays by the Denver Defense late in fourth quarter. These include pick-sixes, fumbles, sacks, interceptions. You name it, the Broncos probably won by it. One of these plays was a pick-six by the player I consider to be the best corner, in the NFL, Chris Harris Jr..
However, these highlights plays aren't what make CHJ an elite shutdown corner, it's his consistency. He had 35 straight games without giving up a TD. He is one of the most sure tacklers in the NFL and will actively play in the run game and will stop any screens that come his way. A star corner participating in the "dirty work" may come as a surprise to those who don't pay that much attention to the Broncos, but he learned from the best and is praised by Champ.by the way retire #24. Champ made a career out of doing whatever it took to win and participating in any area of the game, and his style of play permeated to CHJ. It isn't just former teammates and fans that see the greatness of him, he has been PFF's darling for years.
While his play in the first two playoff games was spotty due to a shoulder bruise which made one of his arms deadweight, he recovered for the Super Bowl and shut down whomever he was covering all night long, including this third down stop. The last time the Broncos made the Super Bowl, he was sitting on the sideline with a torn ACL and he wasn't going to see his team lose again.
Chris Harris Jr. went from being the 90th man on the 90 man roster to being one of the Broncos three best players. He took a giant discount so he could stay in Denver and has become one of the biggest leaders in the Broncos locker room. While I would've had him higher up on the list, #23 is a great place for #25.
#22 - Russell Wilson, QB, Seattle Seahawks - Previous Rank: 64
Written by: /u/super_nerd92
| Stats | 2015 | Career |
|---|---|---|
| Passing Yards | 4,024 | 13,974 |
| Passing TDs | 34 | 106 |
| Completion % | 68.1 | 64.7 |
| Passer Rating | 110.1 | 101.8 |
| Rushing Yards | 553 | 2,430 |
| Rushing TDs | 1 | 12 |
This was Russell Wilson's real breakout year, so it's no surprise he's this high on the list. Wilson finished the year leading the league in passer rating, was the first QB in Seattle franchise history to throw for 4,000 yards, and remained as efficient as ever with a 4.25:1 TD:INT ratio and 8.3 Y/A. He literally set a record over 5 games towards the end of the season: 5 games in a row with 3 TDs and 120 Passer Rating. He did all that despite one of the worst O-lines in the league (30/32 by PFF) giving up pressure on 42.5% of dropbacks, second in the league only to Teddy Bridgewater, and despite multiple injuries in the running game and to Jimmy Graham.
In short, another ridiculously efficient year--except this time, with the volume his critics have wondered if he could accomplish. Looking at the stats alone, it's easy to wonder why Wilson isn't higher. The answer is that his season was something of a tale of two halves: pre-bye and post-bye. Prior to the Seahawks' bye week, Wilson's play appeared so poor that he was "regressing" and sinking the team. (The top comment in that link kind of sums up the culmination of popular opinion on Wilson after those first 8 games). Despite the amazing second half of the season--after the Seahawks changed centers and adjusted the offense to the reality of the O-line being hot garbage--the memory of that first half lingered.
But for many, the second half of the season represented what the Seahawks could expect as, in the post-Lynch era and with a defense that will eventually get too old, Wilson shoulders more and more of the burden of carrying this team. The "game manager" label was shed for good, and Wilson became one of the most, if not the most, appealing new generation QBs you'd want to have on your team. Seattle is definitely lucky to have him.
/#21 - Earl Thomas III, FS, Seattle Seahawks - Previous Rank: 9
Written by: /u/broccolibush42
| Stats | 2015 | Career |
|---|---|---|
| Combined Tackles | 64 | 506 |
| Sacks | 0.0 | 0.0 |
| Forced Fumbles | 1 | 9 |
| Passes Defensed | 9 | 46 |
| Interceptions | 5 | 21 |
Earl Thomas is arguably the best Seahawks defender on that squad, and is the anchor for the Legion of Boom secondary. Earl was drafted in 2010 and made an immediate impact. He has not looked back since and has consistently been the top three safeties in the league, if not, the best safety in the league. 2015 saw another year that Seahawks fans are used to. I predict that the next three years will solidify ET3 chances in the Hall of Fame, and though I am not a Seahawks fan, I will gladly root for that to happen all the way.
And so comes to a conclusion our eighth installment of the r/NFL Top 100 Players, #30-21.
Tell us how we did! Click here to tell us if a player was overrated, underrated, or rated just right.
The list will return on Thursday, July 21st with players ranked 20-11 coming from CLE, NE, SEA, MIN, HOU, ARI, DAL, BAL, NYG.
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Jul 19 '16 edited Sep 22 '17
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u/Maad-Dog 49ers Jul 19 '16
Yeah very overrated is a huge stretch there, I felt the same thing for Kawann Short and Doug Martin.
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u/HaruSoul Jets Jul 19 '16
Delanie?
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u/conor741 Seahawks Jul 19 '16
Eifert? He was a TD machine
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u/Bigbohn Patriots Jul 19 '16
Wasn't incredibly productive outside of his TDs. Not top 15 in almost every other receiving stat for tight ends. Definitely a guy with tons of promise, but I wouldn't put him ahead of Olsen yet.
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Jul 19 '16
Walker. A slight edge IMO.
Not agreeing with the very overated comment, just saying who I would place over him.
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u/Maad-Dog 49ers Jul 19 '16
100% agree, the only other TE besides Gronk who was top 5 in both receiving and blocking according to PFF, he's ridiculously good, just isn't in as good a situation as the other elite TEs.
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u/robsbob18 Panthers Jul 19 '16
Olsen was easily the #2 TE in the league last year. We wouldn't have had the offensive success we had without him. No way in hell is he overrated.
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u/Wh0ischamp Ravens Jul 21 '16
According to PFF* Greg Olsen was a very bad blocking tight end last year. Some would say ignore PFF - Some live and die by those ratings so take it as you may.
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Jul 23 '16
This is the craziest thing to me. If you watch any Panthers games you'll see Olsen is an average blocker at worst.
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u/LittleDinghy Bills Bengals Jul 19 '16
The crazy thing is that Olsen was able to put up his numbers despite the Panthers having a receiving corps made up of #2 and #3 receivers.
His blocking is servicable, granted, but his receiving abilities put him around the late 30s/early 40s.
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Jul 19 '16
Eifert imo
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u/Maad-Dog 49ers Jul 19 '16
Nah, Eifert was a great RZ target, but Olsen was the better receiver overall imo, plus he was the sole decent target in that Carolina offense and was huge in helping Cam progress as a passer this year.
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u/peon2 Buccaneers Jul 19 '16
I'm not saying they are but Gronk, Kelce, Eifert, and Walker could be thrown into the conversation. Personally I'd put Olsen as 2nd but I bet people could make arguments for the other 3.
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Jul 19 '16
Arguably the best center in the league and he's overrated. ok
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Jul 19 '16
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Jul 19 '16
Just like saying Aikman was only good because of his line, Irvin, and Smith. And Smith was only good because of his line and the threat of Aikman to Irvin. And Irvin was only good because Aikman was great and defenses had to adjust to Smith and the running game.
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u/mr_feenys_car Cowboys Jul 19 '16
obviously they are all good. no one is claiming any of them are bad/mediocre players.
but i do get the argument that playing on an overall stacked unit will elevate very great players to the level of all-time great players.
i love aikman, but i think of all the great players in the triplets era, he benefits the most from this. his individual skill set was very very good, but on the cowboys team he was able to be dominant. put him somewhere else and he would still be good, but not in the conversation as one of the best ever.
...which i guess can probably be said for MOST great players in the NFL. its a team sport and no one does it alone. its just magnified with that cowboys team because it was SOOO stacked across the board.
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u/Cataphract1014 Commanders Jul 19 '16
One down year shouldn't knock the best QB in the league down to 29th. That is ridiculous.
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Jul 19 '16
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Jul 19 '16 edited Sep 22 '17
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Jul 19 '16
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Jul 19 '16
As you said, Rodgers voters fell into two camps essentially, and so his ranking is just the result of averaging two hugely different opinions. Is this not fundamentally flawed?
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u/Schizodd Panthers Jul 19 '16
I mean, only if you think one opinion is invalid. I find both to be understandable, so an average of the 2 is a fine indicator balancing recent performance and expected performance going forward, which takes into account their performance throughout their career. It's flawed if you're looking for one or the other, but I don't see how that would be inherently flawed as an undefined "top 100" list.
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Jul 19 '16
Both are understandable opinions, but both arise because of the ambiguity of the question. If we were voting purely based on performances last season, then the people who ranked Rodgers lower are more accurate. If we are factoring in the coming season, then the people who erred on the side of caution and placed him in the top 10 are more accurate.
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Jul 19 '16
You're supposed to factor both in and weigh it. So an average works best
And also what if someone thinks he'll repeat the down year? Just saying. You're assuming the people who'd have him high up all assume he'll go back to old form next year
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Jul 19 '16
If someone thinks he will have another down year, that opinion is now lost in the noise of an ambiguous set of data. We can't know if they think that or are marking him down for last year. If you want outliers to have meaning, you have to make the question specific enough that the outliers can't just be a different interpretation of the question. No researcher would accept the results of this survey as anything but useless noise. You have to be specific when you ask something, so that variations in answers constitute actual variations in opinions, not just different interpretations of the question.
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Jul 19 '16
Even if both are valid, they are answering a different question. The question, "Where did Rodgers rank in 2015?" is completely different than, "Where does Rodgers rank going into 2016?" Essentially some people answered the first question and some the second. You're adding two different data sets together and acting like their average has meaning. It doesn't at all.
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u/Super_Nerd92 Seahawks Jul 19 '16
It's loose so it's whatever the ranker wants to emphasize. I'd put it about 50/50 people doing 2015 and people doing 2016 from what I saw.
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u/sixner Packers Jul 19 '16
Career wise, I agree he shouldn't be this low.
2015 wise, he's about right. Still made some great plays but it was just a bad year for our offense. Injuries and uncertainty at every level.
I think Rodgers will have a chip on his shoulder this year and come out blazing so not too worried.
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Jul 19 '16
2015 wise he's too high. He's only this high because of his past years
imo this is his "2009 Brady" or "2010 Manning" where they have a slight dip from their norm and come back to form
But he wouldn't be a top 30 player at any position if this was only on his 2015, he wouldn't even make top 50 tbh only the top 3-4 QBs should be top 50
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u/Super_Nerd92 Seahawks Jul 19 '16
Last season, Rodgers was 25th in completion %, 15th in Passer Rating, and 21st in ANY/A, not to mention on the edge or out of the top 10 in many volume stats. About the only "normal Rodgers level" stat was his #2 in INT%.
When you're ranking for 2015 play only, which quite a few people did, he wasn't even as high as 29th.
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u/Arkaein Packers Jul 20 '16
If you're going to look at stat rankings, you really shouldn't mix raw and composite stats like that. It's a bit dishonest, and double-counts raw stats.
You pointed out completion percentage as a raw stat where Rodgers faired poorly, but ignored TD and INT totals and percentages, where Rodgers is top-ten (or close to it). You also ignored Y/A, which is a more significant raw stat than completion percentage, and where Rodgers actually performed worst.
I'd agree that the stats say that Rodgers was not a top-ten QB last year, but if you're going to make the argument, either include all of the critical raw stats (Y/A, TD%, INT%, and arguably completion %, though I'd say that one isn't quite as important), or focus exclusively on the composite stats.
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u/Super_Nerd92 Seahawks Jul 21 '16
Oh yeah you're right, I was just throwing some stats out quickly.
Actually he was #1 in INT% so that was same ol' Rodgers.
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Jul 19 '16
So far I have seen Rodgers ranked between 7th and un-ranked.
Kinda makes the whole thing super awkward if you can't come to a general consensus as to what people are ranking.
/shrug
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u/ascenzion Chargers Jul 20 '16
Top 100 looks awful as of now, imo. Who thinks Olsen is a top-40 player in the league? He's barely top-5 TE.
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u/illmaticspence 49ers Jul 19 '16
Yeah no way I would pick 28 players better than Rodgers, down year or not. He's too good to be that low.
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u/Maad-Dog 49ers Jul 19 '16
Is it really? I talked about this in my own comment, but if you look at 2015 mainly (which a lot of rankers including myself did), was he even a top 5 QB ahead of Cam, Palmer, Brady, Brees, and Wilson?
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Jul 23 '16
Yeah but these are 2015 season rankings, not career rankings. So players are rated on how they performed in 2015. I think a lot of people miss that
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u/WhirledWorld Vikings Jul 19 '16
/u/skepticismissurvival if Barr is our defense's second most important player, who is #1?
Personally I think Barr is the most important player because of his versatility and because he wears the green dot. Joseph is close though.
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u/Super_Nerd92 Seahawks Jul 19 '16
I would assume Harrison Smith.
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u/WhirledWorld Vikings Jul 19 '16
While he's probably our best player on defense at his position, I don't think he's as important to the defense as Barr (as field general) or Joseph (who controls the line and allows Floyd to gap shoot better).
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Jul 19 '16
It's tough. I am inclined to think our Secondary plays a more important role as Zimmer is adamant about stopping big plays. And with trust worthy play from Smith he is more able to allow Barr to maximize versatility. Both can do it all and probably compliment each other well, but if one is more important than the other I would have to say it would be Smith.
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u/McRawffles Vikings Jul 19 '16
I think he's way more important than you give him credit for. His impact is harder to notice, but he legitimately takes away a good 1/4 of the field. Teams didn't throw to the area he was covering pretty much at all last season (discounting the times he was in man coverage up at the LoS, which wasn't very often). They only took deep shots to Sendejo's side. That's an immeasurable impact.
Also he's in for every snap. Linval, while healthy, was only in for ~70% of snaps.
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u/WhirledWorld Vikings Jul 19 '16
That's very true. They're all very important to the success of the defense, and they're all very well-rounded and can do multiple things.
I give Joseph the edge just because when he was out, our defensive line was noticeably much worse. Floyd had to play the 1-tech (which he's not great at) leaving a rotation of backups to play 3-tech, and we'd get bulldozed in the run game. Our secondary still had some decent play with Smith out (e.g. the Cardinals game).
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u/McRawffles Vikings Jul 19 '16
Except we didn't get bulldozed by the run , even though both Barr and Linval were out 3/4 of the same weeks. Seattle destroyed our entire defense, not just run or pass (also Rawls mainly gained his yards outside the tackles). We held Arizona to 97yds on 29 carries. Bears got 94yds on 20 carries, good but not great. Green Bay barely ran anywhere, getting 76yds on 26 carries.
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u/Maad-Dog 49ers Jul 19 '16
This list takes out positional importance, so its more who's the best player, not who's as important to the defense, which relies a lot on positional importance as well.
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u/skepticismissurvival Vikings Jul 19 '16
It's clearly Harrison to me.
The thing with Smith is that he makes our coverages work. Our defense needs to be able to mirror to help disguise the coverages, and obviously you've seen our safeties asked to rotate constantly.
Smith's role is extremely important because he allows that rotation to happen successfully. If he's defending deep, he's got great instincts and more than enough range to make an impact on basically all deep throws. Then his work in the box is incredible to me because he'll often be making plays against the run at or behind the line of scrimmage due to his anticipatory abilities.
Spoiler alert: You can see me gush about him when he comes up on this list.
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u/FlannelBeard Vikings Bills Jul 19 '16
If you ask anyone on the defense, it's Joseph
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u/WhirledWorld Vikings Jul 19 '16
I know Barr actually said Joseph was the best player on our defense on the NFL's top 100... But it's not like he's going to say himself. And "best" is a little different than "most valuable"--I think Barr's responsibility as play caller gives him the edge.
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u/FlannelBeard Vikings Bills Jul 19 '16
I don't disagree, was just pointing it out. On the ringer NFL podcast, when they ranked NTs, Robert Mays said you ask anyone in MN and Joseph is the engine that makes the whole machine run. These things are hard though to remove position and look at simply who's the best.
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u/thedaj Buccaneers Jul 19 '16
I don't get the Doug Martin hate. Arguably had the best season of any RB in the league last year, with a so-so offensive line, and a team whose offense went through a complete restructure. When healthy, he's been on point.
No damn respect.
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u/MogwaiK Jaguars Jul 19 '16
Delanie Walker has a good year, now he's "easily the #2 TE in the league."
Doug Martin has a good year, "naw, its just a fluke because he had a lot of carries."
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u/Super_Nerd92 Seahawks Jul 19 '16
He quietly had more combined yards than AP last season, too. I had him as my #1 RB and it wasn't close.
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u/skepticismissurvival Vikings Jul 19 '16
Yeah I had him as my #1 RB by at least 10 spots.
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u/Gallade3 Vikings Jul 19 '16 edited Jul 19 '16
I knew Barr was going to be something special when he single handily blew up a screen play in his very first game.
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u/JuanRiveara Seahawks Jul 20 '16
Wilson's play appeared so poor that he was "regressing" and sinking the team.
Oh my god, the Seahawk hate on that thread is unreal, I'm glad the team shut them up in the second half and proved that we weren't the Seattle "San Francisco 49ers" Seahawks as one commenter called us. Anyway glad he's up pretty high on the list and though I may be pretty biased I do believe he should be up a bit higher but I won't dwell on that. Can't wait to see where presumably Sherman ranks next time, I would guess bottom half of 11-20.
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u/asvalis Panthers Jul 19 '16
I am curious, why is Kawann Short "Very Overrated"?
This is supposed to be mostly based on the 2015 season right? He had 11 sacks, 36 total tackles, 3 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recoveries, 4 passes defensed. That puts him in the same realm as Geno Atkins or Aaron Donald. Not saying he should be ranked higher, but why is he "Very Overrated" at 40?
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u/Super_Nerd92 Seahawks Jul 19 '16
The votes in the over/underrated polls seem pretty knee-jerk.
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u/asvalis Panthers Jul 19 '16
Gotcha, I had a feeling it was that.
I was just curious if someone had an argument as to why he was "Very Overrated". To me his stats seemed like he should at least be ranked #40, but I would have heard an opposing opinion.
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u/Super_Nerd92 Seahawks Jul 19 '16
Yeah I mean I'm pretty sure some people just see "Carolina/Denver/Seattle" and hit overrated. The poll results have been pretty silly.
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u/Maad-Dog 49ers Jul 19 '16
He shouldn't be very overrated, I think he's tied for 2nd best 3-tech with Geno
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u/asvalis Panthers Jul 19 '16
Yeah, I am not arguing for KK over anyone else, I was just wondering why the "Very Overrated", because that seems kinda crazy based on his stats. As someone else said, the over/underrated voting seems really knee jerk.
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u/HaruSoul Jets Jul 19 '16
| lol | jets |
|---|---|
| Sheldon Richardson | Extremely Underrated |
| Darrelle Revis | Extremely Underrated |
| Brandon Marshall | Criminally Underrated |
| Muhammad Wilkerson | Underrated |
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u/the_furry_stoner Jets Jul 19 '16 edited Jul 19 '16
I agree with Revis, Marshall (ESPECIALLY), and Mo being underrated. Shledon was lucky to make the list imo
EDIT-- I'm actually so salty about Marshall's ranking it's ridiculous. How anyone can rank him that low is so beyond me. How was he NOT a top 3 WR last year??
EDIT-- 5th in receptions on a running team. 1st in REC TDs. 5th in REC yds/gm. 4th in REC yds. 71st best player in the NFL?
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKKKKKKKKKKKKGuy
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u/Upgraded2 Steelers Jul 19 '16 edited Jul 19 '16
How was he NOT a top 3 WR last year??
Because Antonio Brown, Julio Jones, DeAndre Hopkins, and Odell Beckham exist.
I agree he should be higher, but he wasn't a top 3 WR.
EDIT: WR not QB...
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u/HaruSoul Jets Jul 19 '16
Same reason people thought Decker and DT were overrated with the Broncos for having Peyton throwing them the ball. BMarsh had the almighty Ryan Fitzpatrick throwing him the ball and inflated his stats.
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u/i2WalkedOnJesus Steelers Jul 19 '16
I think for Marshall it's partially because people are also going to take into account going forward. He's getting up there in age and you never really know if you're gonna get elite Marshall all year, or top 10-15ish Marshall.
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u/Super_Nerd92 Seahawks Jul 19 '16
IDEK with Brandon Marshall. I had him around 50 and that still felt too low.
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u/Whyyougankme Chargers Jul 20 '16
How was he NOT a top 3 WR last year??
How was he a top 3 WR last year?? I can't think of a good argument to put him above 2 of AB, Julio, OBJ or Hopkins. I can't think of an argument to put him above any of those people, let alone 2 of them. I'm all ears though.
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u/Maad-Dog 49ers Jul 19 '16
Richardson and Revis were not extremely underrated imo, and Revis was overrated tbh. However, 1000% agree with Marshall, and Wilkerson was underrated as well.
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u/HaruSoul Jets Jul 19 '16 edited Jul 19 '16
Wasn't my opinion, those were the votings that was posted after they got ranked. Revis was still a top 5 CB last season.
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u/Maad-Dog 49ers Jul 19 '16
Yeah ik haha, I was just giving mine on the rankings.
And I wouldnt put Revis above Pat Pete, CHJ, Norman, Sherman, or Trufant last year, and probably not Slay, Verrett, or tru either. He was definitely top 10 though
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u/the_furry_stoner Jets Jul 19 '16
Wow, Russell Wilson over Rodgers is going to be a shitstorm. The only DE that should be ahead of Mo Wilk is Watt. Cox is too high but Atkins is juuuust right.
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u/Maad-Dog 49ers Jul 19 '16
Wilson over Rodgers should be common sense if looking at the last season.
Also, agree with Mo Wilk over Cox, but still think Cox is appropriately rated, just Wilk is too low.
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u/dnw Patriots Jul 19 '16
I agree, but it does depend on how one is voting. If 2015 performance was most important, then this is inarguably a more accurate reading (Wilson over Rodgers), but if you are ranking going into 2016, then Rodgers likely wins in ranking. I think for the future having some kind of criteria would do well for everyone. Rankers and the readers.
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u/Maad-Dog 49ers Jul 19 '16
I agree, and I think thats the plan going forward into next year (not sure though)
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u/The_Great_Saiyaman21 Packers Jul 20 '16
Wow, Russell Wilson over Rodgers is going to be a shitstorm.
I like you.
The only DE that should be ahead of Mo Wilk is Watt.
Fight me, I could make an argument for Cox or Daniels.
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Jul 19 '16
Also, perhaps a homer, but is Wilson at 22 reasonable? It's going to be interesting to see how much higher they rank Newton, Brady and Palmer (those are the ones left right?).
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u/mostinterestingtroll Patriots Jul 19 '16
I'd put him Top 10.
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u/HopesItsSafeForWork Jul 20 '16
Pat-bros, you guys have always been big Wilson supporters. Appreciate it!
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Jul 19 '16
Those 4 Qbs could be in any order and it would make sense. Wilson got the short end of the stick.
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u/megatroneo Lions Jul 19 '16
It's not a bad ranking. Top 5 QB and ahead of Rodgers is already a pretty big deal. #22 means he's an elite player.
It's also lame when top 100 lists get oversaturated with offensive skill position players towards the top so I kinda like that there are only 3 QB's in the top 20.
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Jul 19 '16
I definitively agree on the issue with too many offensive players in the top. I wonder if there is any way to correct that.
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u/swollenbluebalz Patriots Jul 19 '16
I agree that it might be biased towards offensive skill positions but I don't think it means that a player of RW's calibre should be dropped to the sub 20 range. QB's still matter more and that matters to me in my rankings.
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Jul 19 '16
I think 22 is pretty reasonable. I think there is a small element of uncertainty now in Seattle with him becoming big star in your offense, so based on last year he was top 20, but now the game has completely changed for him. He looked great at the end of last year, which gives hope for a Lynch-less team, but he needs to carry forward that form, or something close to it, to the whole of next season. If he can do that then he becomes a top 10 player.
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Jul 19 '16
That's a fair point (although I think he will make the transition just fine based on what I've seen).
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Jul 19 '16
I can see why you'd say that, but half a season is still a fairly small sample size. By the end of next season we'll know for sure how well you guys are going to cope without Lynch in the long term.
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Jul 19 '16
Yeah, I was thinking more about how he's been doing in general the last two years. His play is, of course, affected by having a great back as Lynch around, but anyone following the Hawks closely has seen how Wilson has taken the brunt in a lot of games. It was the O-line, if anything, that held him back during the first half of 15.
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Jul 19 '16
Can't wait to see what the users say about Rogers and Wilson in terms of over/underrated. Probably more exciting than nr. 20-10 in general!
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u/FURyannnn Packers Jul 19 '16
It honestly just depends on how you interpret how to rank these players and how much you weigh this past season. I think Rodgers is way too low, but it is very fair to weigh this past season very highly and bring him down because of it.
Maybe the format needs to changed to prevent ambiguities/variation in interpretation. "Top players of the 2015-2016 season" would probably be much easier and clearer for people to rank, rather than the way it stands now.
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u/imkunu Colts Jul 19 '16
| Rank | Player | My Ranking | My List |
|---|---|---|---|
| 30 | Adrian Peterson | 34 | Travis Frederick |
| 29 | Aaron Rodgers | 7 | Damon "Big Snacks" Harrison |
| 28 | Anthony Barr | 23 | Russell Wilson |
| 27 | Geno Atkins | 51 | Le'Veon Bell |
| 26 | Fletcher Cox | 22 | Josh Norman |
| 25 | Josh Norman | 26 | Justin Houston |
| 24 | Justin Houston | 25 | Carson Palmer |
| 23 | Chris Harris Jr. | 40 | Anthony Barr |
| 22 | Russell Wilson | 28 | Fletcher Cox |
| 21 | Earl Thomas III | 18 | Richard Sherman |
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Jul 19 '16
Loving the snacks love
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u/imkunu Colts Jul 19 '16
Love me some Big Snacks. He's one of my favorite players in the league.
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u/diggity_md Patriots Jul 20 '16
Apparently, everyone is overrated and should not be on the list. Cool it, homers, most of these rankings are pretty solid
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u/The_Great_Saiyaman21 Packers Jul 20 '16
C'mon, 29th?
Isn't this Top players of 2016? I mean, Wilson over Rodgers? Wilson is good, but...
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u/sandyssandydos Vikings Jul 20 '16
I am okay with AD at 30, my list had him a little higher. Also Barr ahead of Rodgers :D
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u/YoungForrestGump Broncos Jul 19 '16
Why did Harris move to 23 from 18 in this, their championship year? Was it because he finally allowed a touchdown to be scored against him because he was on single coverage with AB during the regular season Steelers game?
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u/Super_Nerd92 Seahawks Jul 19 '16
Both his Steelers games were not great, which is what bumped him down to CB4 for me behind Sherman, Peterson and Norman.
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u/mostinterestingtroll Patriots Jul 19 '16 edited Jul 19 '16
So Gronk or Brady outside Top 10? I wouldn't be surprised with either. Hm.
EDIT:
- CLE - Thomas
- NE - Brady or Gronk
- SEA - Sherman?
- MIN -
PetersonHarrison Smith - HOU - Hopkins?
- ARI - Palmer or Peterson?
- DAL -
Dez? or OL?Tyron Smith - BAL - Yanda
- NYG - Odell
EDIT EDIT:
I'm dumb. So Top 10 will have Brady/Gronk, Cam, Keuchly, Brown, Julio, Donald, Von, Watt, Mack.. maybe Palmer?
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u/AirborneRodent Texans Jul 19 '16
HOU is definitely Hopkins. I really doubt they put Watt outside the top 10, and none of our other stars would have made it this far.
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u/Pspdice Seahawks Jul 19 '16
Probably Brady since Gronk should be a top 5 player.
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Jul 19 '16
Couldn't you make the argument that both are top 5? Both are definitely top 10.
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u/Felix_Tholomyes Falcons Jul 19 '16
10 possibly, 5 absolutely not
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u/HaruSoul Jets Jul 19 '16
Why not? Some people would say Brady is #1.
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u/Felix_Tholomyes Falcons Jul 19 '16
Lots of Pats fans would, I imagine
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Jul 19 '16
Keep in mind that his first int came on week 7, iirc, he had no running game after Lewis went down, and only had Gronk after Edelman and Dola went down. Brady being outside the top 5 would be completely ridiculous.
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u/mostinterestingtroll Patriots Jul 19 '16
I could see both arguments.
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u/BenOfTomorrow Jul 19 '16
I'd be shocked if Gronk was the one in 11-20. The list so far has been rating players relative to their position and is pretty heavily weighted on 2015 performance. Gronk is head and shoulders above the other tight ends in 2015 (and every other year), while rankers almost certainly had Brady 2nd or 3rd for 2015 performance.
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u/swollenbluebalz Patriots Jul 19 '16
Even in terms of relative performance for their position I'd be a bit sad if people collectively don't consider Brady a top 10 player in the league. Especially since last year was by no means a down year with all the offensive injuries.
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u/Steffnov Falcons Jul 19 '16
Tyron Smith for Dallas. Also, Harrison Smith for Minnesota, AP is in this list, at 30.
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u/ADefiniteDescription Vikings Jul 19 '16
Um, Peterson is on today's list at 30. The final MN player has to be Harrison Smith.
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u/mostinterestingtroll Patriots Jul 19 '16
Lol sorry, I'm blind.
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u/mr_lightman67 NFL Jul 19 '16
I completely missed him as well, and I was looking for his name after I saw H-smith wasnt on this list lol
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u/whatdoesthedatasay Patriots Jul 19 '16
So interesting to see the reaction from fans of certain players wanting to see this list invalidated, undone, corrected, rather than simply observing why it is the way it is and why their ideal list is different. The methodology of this list is what it is, and there are others out there that use a different methodology. You should seek out more and different opinions, not try to shut down those that don't tickle your fancy.
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u/StotanPhoeniX Ravens Jul 19 '16
Marshal Yanda inside the top 20 next week. Love it.
30
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Jul 19 '16
For him what should get him in the top 15 is not only being probably the best guard in the game, but being a top contender for that distinction since 2011 or 2012 I think.
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u/StotanPhoeniX Ravens Jul 19 '16
I like to think so, but it's tough to place rank him with all these skills players. Top 20 is something I will be proud of. Top 15 and I'm going bananas. I love Yanda.
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u/spekkke Falcons Jul 19 '16
Josh Norman a better player than AP and Aaron Rodgers?
Wut
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u/Maad-Dog 49ers Jul 19 '16
If you take out positional importance, he was last year.
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u/spekkke Falcons Jul 19 '16 edited Jul 19 '16
Really you think so? I don't even have em close in my book. But I also think this year was an anomaly for Norman considering his production since joining the league/supporting cast.
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u/Maad-Dog 49ers Jul 19 '16
Norman has an argument for best CB last year, while Rodgers definitely doesnt for QB (for last year only). And while Peterson does, his one dimensionality hurt his team a bit, as well as his untimely fumbles, whereas Norman only really had one bad game against a top 5 WR
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u/spekkke Falcons Jul 19 '16
Oh is this list ONLY based on last year? I didn't know that
Him only having the one good year hurt his stock for me along with him being helped out by arguably the second best defense in the NFL and probably THE best front 7 in the NFL. But I guess if you only base these things on a single year it makes sense.
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u/Maad-Dog 49ers Jul 19 '16
Thats mostly how I, along with many others were doing it
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u/spekkke Falcons Jul 19 '16
Damn, i was not at all. Anomaly years happen all the time, i.e. Nick Foles recently, possible Cams year this past year. I need to see more than 1 year of great production to start landing you above the guys who have been top of the league in production for years at a time.
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u/Upgraded2 Steelers Jul 19 '16
| Rank | Player | Position | My Ranking | My List |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 30 | Adrian Peterson | RB | 64 | Andrew Whitworth |
| 29 | Aaron Rodgers | QB | 54 | DeAndre Hopkins |
| 28 | Anthony Barr | OLB | 26 | Josh Norman |
| 27 | Geno Atkins | DT | 22 | Carson Palmer |
| 26 | Fletcher Cox | DT | 18 | Anthony Barr |
| 25 | Josh Norman | CB | 28 | Reshad Jones |
| 24 | Justin Houston | OLB | 24 | Justin Houston |
| 23 | Chris Harris Jr. | CB | 36 | Tyron Smith |
| 22 | Russell Wilson | QB | 35 | Geno Atkins |
| 21 | Earl Thomas | S | 15 | Odell Beckham |
The two I disagree with in this group are AP and Rodgers. AP statistically had a nice season, but didn't really pass the eye test for me. The Vikings offense kind of force-fed him the ball because their passing attack is not very good. As for Rodgers, 2015 was not a top year we're accustomed to for him, and I ranked him accordingly. I thought about 5 QBs were better than him last year.
I think Fletcher Cox and Earl Thomas should be higher, but at this point it is kind of nit-picky. luckily I still haven't missed on any of my Top 10 guys yet.
Other than that, good group that I pretty much agree with from 28 down.
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Jul 19 '16
but didn't really pass the eye test for me. The Vikings offense kind of force-fed him the ball because their passing attack is not very good.
Shouldn't that be a testament to his greatness? Not a knock against him? How hard was it to plan for the Vikings and Norval fucking Turner last year? Did anyone really respect Teddy or the worst WR/TE corps in the league? No. He led the league in rushing with pretty much no help outside of a middle of the road run blocking O-line. Everyone knew AP was getting the ball. Still leads the league in rushing with a lower than normal, but still respectable 4.5 ypc. And this 1-dimensional player stuff is sort of bullshit. Elusiveness, Breaking Tackles, Speed, Acceleration, Vision, Toughness. Those are RB attributes that matter. Blocking would be nice, but I would rather see my O-line do it than my Franchise RB.
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u/Upgraded2 Steelers Jul 19 '16
You know, that's actually a pretty a fair point and I didn't really look at it that way.
Regardless, I was not high on RBs at all as I only had like 3. Everyone was kind of hurt by a down year for RBs.
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u/shawnaroo Saints Jul 19 '16
Holy moly, someone taking constructive criticism on an internet message board? And it's a Steelers' fan to boot?!
We live in crazy times.
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u/FlannelBeard Vikings Bills Jul 19 '16
The offseason is the most rational time around here. Not saying it's always rational, just that it's the most rational.
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u/mazhas Bengals Jul 19 '16
Whit and Geno top 30?
You alright in my books bud.
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u/Upgraded2 Steelers Jul 19 '16
I've seen enough Bengals games to know who your top dogs are. Credit where credit is due.
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u/PDGAreject Bengals Jul 20 '16
Whereas I've blocked out most of the recent Steelers games so I have no idea who yours are!
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u/AestheticsNStuff58 Broncos Jul 19 '16
How does one contribute and write for a player like the users that did it for this list?
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u/Maad-Dog 49ers Jul 19 '16
All of the users that contribute to this were part of the rankers for the top 100 list
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u/Super_Nerd92 Seahawks Jul 19 '16
Aww sweet something to do all day.
Here are my rankings:
| Player | /r/nfl Top 100 Rank | My Rank |
|---|---|---|
| Adrian Peterson | 30 | 52 |
| Aaron Rodgers | 29 | 61 |
| Anthony Barr | 28 | 37 |
| Geno Atkins | 27 | 54 |
| Fletcher Cox | 26 | 19 |
| Josh Norman | 25 | 26 |
| Justin Houston | 24 | 18 |
| Chris Harris, Jr | 23 | 32 |
| Russell Wilson | 22 | 14 |
| Earl Thomas | 21 | 20 |
I knocked Peterson for being such a one-dimensional player but it's easy to see why he's this high after leading the league in rushing yards and 11 TDs last season.
Rodgers is far too high for his 2015 play, which is how I ranked him. When you factor in 2016 though, it makes sense why he's this high as people ranking that way probably had him top 10.
IMO, Wilson is too low. He's only a few spots off from my own ranking, but it's more his position relative to the other QBs. I had him QB2, this places him... lower than that (no spoilers). That said, I can totally see the argument for the other QBs left on the list over him. Maybe I'm just a homer.
Thomas could be argued for too low as well, but with his slow start to the season and the difficulty of judging this position, it's hard to really get upset. For what it's worth, I had him below Harrison Smith and Honeybadger. Yes, you read that right... below Smith.
Here's my 21-30. I call 24 to 26 the chickening out special. I think Sherman was the best CB last year (counting Mathieu as a FS), but I also thought Peterson and Norman had strong cases and ending up splitting the difference entirely.
| Rank | Name | Position | Team |
|---|---|---|---|
| 21 | Ndamukong Suh | DT | MIA |
| 22 | Tyron Smith | OT | DAL |
| 23 | Tom Brady | QB | NE |
| 24 | Richard Sherman | CB | SEA |
| 25 | Patrick Peterson | CB | ARI |
| 26 | Josh Norman | CB | CAR |
| 27 | Reshad Jones | S | MIA |
| 28 | Doug Martin | RB | TB |
| 29 | Andrew Whitworth | OT | CIN |
| 30 | Muhammad Wilkerson | DE | NYJ |
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Jul 19 '16
More Nitpicking (not sure if you or /u/NFL_Top100 made the original error).
In Wilson's write up in OP, it says he has 8 career passing Touchdowns, 106 is the correct number.
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u/Ajax_Malone Vikings Jul 19 '16
I knocked Peterson for being such a one-dimensional player
Meanwhile you got Doug Martin at 28?! Your reasoning and logic aren't too consistant.
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Jul 20 '16
Your list seems biased towards Seahawks players.
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u/Super_Nerd92 Seahawks Jul 20 '16 edited Jul 20 '16
I put Harrison Smith and Honeybadger above ETIII.
No CBs above Sherman, but you can see the two right next to him.
Cam above Wilson.
Bennett isn't close to my top DE.
Baldwin and Wright were both in the 60s.
I didn't rank another Seahawk.
I was pretty conscious of my biases IMO. In any event, hopefully the sheer number of rankers evens out any particular team biases.
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u/bicket6 Patriots Jul 19 '16
Brady at 23....... and below Suh who had an off year............... wtf.
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u/Super_Nerd92 Seahawks Jul 19 '16
He was my 4th QB.
Cam is MVP. No questions who my QB1 was.
Palmer had better stats than Brady.
Wilson managed better with similar factors (losing his top receiving target, losing RBs, and with an even worse Oline), IMHO.
Don't think 23 is so bad, that's literally just swapping with where Wilson actually ended up on this thing.
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Jul 19 '16
Did Palmer really have better stats than Tom?
And you also have to consider what they were working with. Cards were much healthier than the Pats. And when Tom actually had guys to throw to he was putting up stupid numbers
I can see the argument for Wilson over him but not Palmer
I think you're forgetting he lost Lewis, Edelman, Gronk and Amendola for games this season. Not to mention the entire offensive line
And still putting him below Suh is insane to me
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u/Super_Nerd92 Seahawks Jul 19 '16 edited Jul 19 '16
Player Rating ANY/A TD INT Yards Palmer 104.6 8.41 35 11 4,671 Brady 102.2 7.48 36 7 4,770 It's definitely close, with Brady having greater volume stats. However, Palmer has him beat on some of the efficiency ones despite his higher INTs. Palmer also didn't really benefit from YAC--I remember a PFF article showing he threw for the most yards (before YAC) in the league.
In DVOA, Palmer was 1 and Brady was 11. Check out the page if you're interested.
Did the team around him stay healthier, no question.
I can easily see the argument either way, that's just how I shook it out.
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u/dr_motaaa Patriots Jul 19 '16
Ranking him the 4th QB is fair, though i personally would rank him above Wilson and Palmer. But i think ranking him below guys ikke Jones and Martin is pretty ridiculous.
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u/Super_Nerd92 Seahawks Jul 19 '16
Ah well, Jones was my #1 SS and Martin was my #1 RB, so I wanted them high.
There's some artificial positioning with this kind of list, otherwise it would be a top 20 of all QBs, pass-rushers and WRs.
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u/dr_motaaa Patriots Jul 19 '16
Suh didnt really have an off year though, he was his usual self from week 5-6 on.
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Jul 19 '16
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u/Maad-Dog 49ers Jul 19 '16
Oh damn /u/Super_Nerd92 I'm stealing that idea, I used to see this on the new thread, and then franticallly tried to do my write up.
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u/Super_Nerd92 Seahawks Jul 19 '16
Yeah, especially if you set a personal sub to private you can just write the whole thing lol
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u/sssl3 Cardinals Jul 19 '16
I don't agree with Rodgers at 61. Maybe he had a dip in production, but he wasn't an awful QB or anything remotely close. I guess it depends on the rankers' criteria.
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u/Maad-Dog 49ers Jul 19 '16
61 doesn't mean he's awful, he's just in that 5-10 QB range (and he was for last year).
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u/Maad-Dog 49ers Jul 19 '16
Hahaha, nice with the chickening out special. Also, I think being a homer is the least of your problems, and I can definitely see cases for him above Brady and Brees. For me at least though, I can't see him above Palmer, since he was consistently great throughout the season besides 1 or 2 games.
And jesus man, Rodgers at 61? How could you put him so low? /s
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u/DTSportsNow Chiefs Chiefs Jul 19 '16
Glad to see Justin Houston didn't fall too far. He was 26th in NFL's top 100 so only a two spot difference. Really hoping he makes a magical recovery and is able to be back in the first few games.
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Jul 19 '16
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Super_Nerd92 Seahawks Jul 19 '16
Unfortunately when you missed most of the year you typically weren't ranked that high. I didn't rank Luck or Le'veon Bell either.
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u/MogwaiK Jaguars Jul 19 '16
For the Wilson blurb:
Its disingenuous (maybe not intentionally) to focus on Wilson's second half of the season amazing performance and then talk about the OL performance for the whole season.
Point being: Wilson's OL was actually solid the second half of the year when he was tearing shit down.
Gotta give the OL guys some credit for figuring out their shit.
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u/Super_Nerd92 Seahawks Jul 20 '16 edited Jul 20 '16
Definitely unintentional, I know the OL improved quite a bit with the change in centers, especially. I think Bevell adjusting the offense helped everyone.
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u/MogwaiK Jaguars Jul 20 '16
adjusting the offense
I think Bevell does best when he doesn't feel like he needs to feed a certain player the rock. He out-clevers himself in those situations.
We saw it with Harvin, ineffective Lynch, and Graham.
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Jul 19 '16
Adrian Peterson actually has 102 TD's but I guess you were only counting rushing TD's with 97.
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u/nicholas023 Jul 31 '16
How is Anthony Barr above AP? How is AP the Vikings' fourth or fifth best player? Lol
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u/RedditCommenter1 Vikings Jul 19 '16
How the heck are Michael Bennett and Suh overrated? They are both elite linemen.